I?m over the Leach experiment.

[HoopsDawg]

Leach is and always has been a joke. He does not win serious football games. He won at Wazzou and Tech, except when it mattered. It almost always matters in the SEC. Yall should have known when me and 34 actually agreed on something it was a sign of an apocalypse for MSU. Fire Cohen first.

We hired Joe Lee Dunn as our head coach. It worked great for a pretty long time but it never evolved.

[Quaoarsking]

Leach is and always has been a joke. He does not win serious football games. He won at Wazzou and Tech, except when it mattered. It almost always matters in the SEC. Yall should have known when me and 34 actually agreed on something it was a sign of an apocalypse for MSU. Fire Cohen first.

Leach was .500 against USC and Oregon at Washington State. That's better than any MSU coach is ever going to do against Alabama and LSU. (Well, actually Leach will be .500 against that pair at the end of this year.)

[War Machine Dawg]

This is such bullshit. We're in the same area that produced Jerry Rice and AJ Brown. And that's part of what pisses me off. Our players are just bad. Ole Miss and USM manage to get WR's but we get OSorryAss Mitchell.

So 2 WRs 40 years apart? Thanks for proving my point. Why don't you also say Mississippi produced Brett Fahv-ray? It's only been about 10 years since he retired and there hasn't been a good starting QB in the NFL from here since. And don't tell me Minshew, he's not going to be a starter for long. But again, it's only a decade or so between NFL QBs for the state, even if Minshew makes it.

There's a reason most of the NFL players in MS are defenders or linemen and RBs. High school offenses are so far behind that WRs and QBs don't develop worth a damn outside of the very exceptional case.

[Todd4State]

So 2 WRs 40 years apart? Thanks for proving my point. Why don't you also say Mississippi produced Brett Fahv-ray? It's only been about 10 years since he retired and there hasn't been a good starting QB in the NFL from here since. And don't tell me Minshew, he's not going to be a starter for long. But again, it's only a decade or so between NFL QBs for the state, even if Minshew makes it.

There's a reason most of the NFL players in MS are defenders or linemen and RBs. High school offenses are so far behind that WRs and QBs don't develop worth a damn outside of the very exceptional case.

DK Metcalf ring a bell? Those are just the tip of the ice berg. How about guys like Jamarcus Bradley that went to Sun Belt teams and are better than what we have been recruiting? Arkansas State has another. And let's ignore the two four star receivers we have committed right now that are out of state guys.

[IMissJack]

Leach was .500 against USC and Oregon at Washington State. That's better than any MSU coach is ever going to do against Alabama and LSU. (Well, actually Leach will be .500 against that pair at the end of this year.)

Wasn?t USC coming off of some violations in some of those years?

[ShotgunDawg]

Some of you are too emotional and aren’t thinking this through. You’d never run your own business like this.

We’re in a transformation. It’ll work but take time. Of course you know this but you’re too immature to just sit tight.

[Quaoarsking]

Wasn?t USC coming off of some violations in some of those years?

If you want to, you can come up with excuses for every win that any team has ever gotten.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Lol. You are funny

I am not ready to scuttle the ship after 3 games either. However, last night was literally the worst game I have seen since the Croom era. Moorhead never got close to anything that bad. If UK would have kneeled the ball 3 times and punted every offensive possession they still would have beaten us by 2 touchdowns. That's not acceptable.

[Todd4State]

Some of you are too emotional and aren’t thinking this through. You’d never run your own business like this.

We’re in a transformation. It’ll work but take time. Of course you know this but you’re too immature to just sit tight.

Our fans aren't willing to take one step back to potentially take two steps forward.

[BeardoMSU]

Our fans aren't willing to take one step back to potentially take two steps forward.

I guess I fail to see the necessity in forcing yourself to take a step back...

I asked this several times last night. Why is Leach special, that he doesn't have to work with what he's got to get the best product on the field? That's literally something you'd ask of any coach worth a shit. Ok, we don't have the pieces to run your system to your ideal. Great, so go get those players...but we shouldn't have to bottom out for that to occur. We can still be competitive until that happens. Dan Mullen had us competitive with Tyson ****ing Lee playing QB.

This is exactly the same type of stubbornness we saw from Joe Moorhead.

Perhaps I'm missing the forest for the trees here, and If I am, I'll be happy to consider a legitimate counterpoint, but as of yet, I haven't heard one.

[Quaoarsking]

I guess I fail to see the necessity in forcing yourself to take a step back...

I asked this several times last night. Why is Leach special, that he doesn't have to work with what he's got to get the best product on the field? That's literally something you'd ask of any coach worth a shit. Ok, we don't have the pieces to run your system to your ideal. Great, so go get those players...but we shouldn't have to bottom out for that to occur. We can still be competitive until that happens. Dan Mullen had us competitive with Tyson ****ing Lee playing QB.

This is exactly the same type of stubbornness we saw from Joe Moorhead.

Perhaps I'm missing the forest for the trees here, and If I am, I'll be happy to consider a legitimate counterpoint, but as of yet, I haven't heard one.

We're also shitty at executing things outside of Leach's comfort zone. That's the best I can do.

[Todd4State]

I guess I fail to see the necessity in forcing yourself to take a step back...

I asked this several times last night. Why is Leach special, that he doesn't have to work with what he's got to get the best product on the field? That's literally something you'd ask of any coach worth a shit. Ok, we don't have the pieces to run your system to your ideal. Great, so go get those players...but we shouldn't have to bottom out for that to occur. We can still be competitive until that happens. Dan Mullen had us competitive with Tyson ****ing Lee playing QB.

This is exactly the same type of stubbornness we saw from Joe Moorhead.

Perhaps I'm missing the forest for the trees here, and If I am, I'll be happy to consider a legitimate counterpoint, but as of yet, I haven't heard one.

Dan's offense was actually bottom half of the SEC in year one finishing 9th in scoring and 7th in total offense. His offense being good in year one is more fan perception than anything. And he only improved us by one win over Croom in year one in reality. Winning the Egg Bowl in year one also helps with that perception.

The difference is Leach has a long track record of success that Croom and Moorhead didn't have. And Leach has a history of having a transition year in year one at two different stops before having a good bit of success. That alone is an indication that he should be given time to do his thing.

If Dan followed a more successful coach he would have been scrutinized a lot more than he was.

[R2Dawg]

Some of you are too emotional and aren?t thinking this through. You?d never run your own business like this.

We?re in a transformation. It?ll work but take time. Of course you know this but you?re too immature to just sit tight.

Good point and you also wouldn't trash your business in the middle of you changing products or markets or whatever equivalent you want to use. You don't have 1-3 years to experiment and get the right formula. You gotta pay the bills as you go. Croom thought the same thing. Takes time - half a decade and we never moved the needle. Leach can't do the same.

Moorhead did the same.

[BeardoMSU]

We're also shitty at executing things outside of Leach's comfort zone. That's the best I can do.

Dan's offense was actually bottom half of the SEC in year one finishing 9th in scoring and 7th in total offense. His offense being good in year one is more fan perception than anything. And he only improved us by one win over Croom in year one in reality. Winning the Egg Bowl in year one also helps with that perception.

The difference is Leach has a long track record of success that Croom and Moorhead didn't have. And Leach has a history of having a transition year in year one at two different stops before having a good bit of success. That alone is an indication that he should be given time to do his thing.

If Dan followed a more successful coach he would have been scrutinized a lot more than he was.

These are both fair.

[R2Dawg]

Dan's offense was actually bottom half of the SEC in year one finishing 9th in scoring and 7th in total offense. His offense being good in year one is more fan perception than anything. And he only improved us by one win over Croom in year one in reality. Winning the Egg Bowl in year one also helps with that perception.

The difference is Leach has a long track record of success that Croom and Moorhead didn't have. And Leach has a history of having a transition year in year one at two different stops before having a good bit of success. That alone is an indication that he should be given time to do his thing.

If Dan followed a more successful coach he would have been scrutinized a lot more than he was.

Yep when you follow success the bar is raised, Joe had that to some degree. Leach maybe but Dan we got robbed in Houston and GT games that year (both were ranked) and should have won against LSU. Point is, we were not great on O but we were in every game that year with same players Croom had and we were not in hardly any games year before.

I don't think anyone on here expected 8 wins but 15 ints in 3 games, 4 pick 6, 14 points in 2 games vs bad teams was not expected. We played the easy part of schedule too.

[DownwardDawg]

Some of you are too emotional and aren’t thinking this through. You’d never run your own business like this.

We’re in a transformation. It’ll work but take time. Of course you know this but you’re too immature to just sit tight.

Or drunk. I certainly was.

[Joebob]

I guess I fail to see the necessity in forcing yourself to take a step back...

I asked this several times last night. Why is Leach special, that he doesn't have to work with what he's got to get the best product on the field? That's literally something you'd ask of any coach worth a shit. Ok, we don't have the pieces to run your system to your ideal. Great, so go get those players...but we shouldn't have to bottom out for that to occur. We can still be competitive until that happens. Dan Mullen had us competitive with Tyson ****ing Lee playing QB.

This is exactly the same type of stubbornness we saw from Joe Moorhead.

Perhaps I'm missing the forest for the trees here, and If I am, I'll be happy to consider a legitimate counterpoint, but as of yet, I haven't heard one.

This is kind of what I tried to say on another thread, but you said it simpler.

[Cooterpoot]

I guess I fail to see the necessity in forcing yourself to take a step back...

I asked this several times last night. Why is Leach special, that he doesn't have to work with what he's got to get the best product on the field? That's literally something you'd ask of any coach worth a shit. Ok, we don't have the pieces to run your system to your ideal. Great, so go get those players...but we shouldn't have to bottom out for that to occur. We can still be competitive until that happens. Dan Mullen had us competitive with Tyson ****ing Lee playing QB.

This is exactly the same type of stubbornness we saw from Joe Moorhead.

Perhaps I'm missing the forest for the trees here, and If I am, I'll be happy to consider a legitimate counterpoint, but as of yet, I haven't heard one.

He's doing what he can with what he's got. Not sure why you think he's not. We have two first year QBs that have never played in an SEC game or this system specifically. Three first year starters on the OL. Our WR talent is split between bad and young. We've got a good RB but his backups are both freshmen. That's an ass load of problems any year.

[BB30]

I agree. This shit is almost done. Leach is getting his ass handed to him by Arkansas and Kentucky. That didn't happen to Moorhead or Croom that I can remember. We need a physical badass coach.

Dude, Moorhead got drummed in 2018 at Kentucky. Offensive performance was about as putrid as last night with quite a bit more talent on that 18 team.

Arkansas played UGA well for 3 quarters, beat us, and had Auburn beat.

That arkansas team isn't nearly as bad as people here seem to think. They have played everyone good so far.

Kentucky was a top 25 team coming into the season and has been much better the last 3 years or so with a coach that has been there and is established.

Not making excuses because we should have won 1 of those games for sure.

Also, we don't really have a whole lot of offensive talent. Mullen left the pantry pretty bare when he left on the offensive side of the ball.

Not sure what people expected after watching our WRS and QBs the last two years. There just isn't a whole lot of talent at the moment and what talent we do have is relatively young outside of hill.

Regardless, you have to give leach some time to get his guys in there and see how they do once he has some players that fit what he likes to do. Still may not work out but won't know until we see.

[Maroonthirteen]

I agree with Beardo. The thing doesn't have to be burned to the ground. You have some players on campus. Figure out what works for them. But it seems to me, Leach tried to add some new wrinkles in the UK game, and the offense looked worse than the Arkansas game.

Anyways, Costello is a Leach guy. So is Rogers. You have a senior RB that is a Good pass catcher. Two good looking freshman RBs. The OL.... a few were rated high. Heath was supposed to be big deal. He has talent to work with. As evident by the LSU game. But what changed? The opponents adjusted. ...and our KISS coach hasn't.

His offense isn't special. Maybe it was 20 years ago but it's been figured out.