So away from the freakouts and onto X's and O's... how do we beat Arky's gameplan?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

What exactly do we do vs a 3 man rush with 8 dropping into zone? Running the ball vs a 5 man box? Put together 14 play drives of 4-6 yard passes? Take the top off with 50/50 deep balls? Simply get better at executing our routes and QB decision making?

Genuine question: how do we break it?

[msstate7]

Isn't this the same plan Washington ran that leach never figured a way to beat it?

[DownwardDawg]

Isn't this the same plan Washington ran that leach never figured a way to beat it?

I believe it is.

[DovaDawg]

The bad part is we figured out how to break it in the third quarter. You take what the defense gives you. If they are going to give you five yards underneath, then take it. The defense was having to crash down from 5-10 yards away every play and was eventually going to run out of gas. You take the five yard run. You take the short screens and slants. You let the defense wear themselves out and eventually you guys break one or you take a deep shot. Basically what Arkansas did to us. They burned us twice with the same screen play. KJ did it great one drive, then got greedy and kept trying to force the ball deeper into the zone.

[maroonmania]

I know we were missing Kylin but what was REALLY shocking to me last night was that Arkansas was consistently dropping 8 yet we were STILL very ineffective running the ball overall. Did we have a run over 10 yards all night? If a defense can drop that many folks out of the box and you still can't run the ball I'm not sure what you do.

[redstickdawg]

THe Lb's weren't taking a deep drop that's why they could also play the runs. It appears that the LB's were staying home for 2 reasons, stop the run and the short crossing routes. The rest of the def backs were going 10-20 yards deep and closing the throwing lanes.

[Activated Alpha]

Then the receivers should have been told to run behind the linebackers and sit in that zone between them and the DB's

[defiantdog]

Should've spread the zone..... with how much time he had to throw, there should've been plenty of go routes

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Isn't this the same plan Washington ran that leach never figured a way to beat it?

https://www.uwdawgpound.com/2019/11/...otball-cougars

"Lake said, “They do the same thing year in and year out […] so it makes it really easy to game-plan […] They can only do one thing – that handcuffs you a little bit. It was definitely to our advantage, and we took advantage of it.”"

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...-states-mike-/

"Last year, after a 28-15 win for the Huskies in Pullman, the defensive coordinator was quoted as saying, “Next year maybe he’ll throw a little curveball, but it makes it very easy when you know what you’re going to get. … But knowing what I read about the head football coach here, he does things a little bit different way. So hopefully he remains here for a long time. That would be awesome.”"

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...et-mike-leach/

"To be fair, the Cougs face eight-man coverages from other opponents, too, and seem to handle it just fine. So why are the Huskies so effective with it? “They really know what they’re doing,” said WSU receiver Renard Bell. “When most teams drop eight against us, they’re switching their defense … they’re not really accustomed to it.”". In there you also have a tweet from a former UW defensive player saying Leach never changes the O from year to year.

So basically, Leach will always run the same O with no wrinkles added and the only difference between scoring 30+ or 14- is how well the D "knows what they're doing" in a 8 man zone. Well Arky knew what they were doing.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

What exactly do we do vs a 3 man rush with 8 dropping into zone? Running the ball vs a 5 man box? Put together 14 play drives of 4-6 yard passes? Take the top off with 50/50 deep balls? Simply get better at executing our routes and QB decision making?

Genuine question: how do we break it?

You can't. Washington had a defense that worked perfectly and for some reason other teams decided not to use it for years and years and just let Leach score 50 points out of pity.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I know we were missing Kylin but what was REALLY shocking to me last night was that Arkansas was consistently dropping 8 yet we were STILL very ineffective running the ball overall. Did we have a run over 10 yards all night? If a defense can drop that many folks out of the box and you still can't run the ball I'm not sure what you do.

They were showing a 5 man box and then dropping the LBs to shallow zones. SO Costello checks to a pass, but it's vs 6 deep defenders in zone with the LB's eliminating shallow or crossing routes. Big runs are really hard to break vs zone because all the defenders are facing the LOS and react accordingly.

[Cooterpoot]

In the SEC, you're going to need a QB that can run. This offense with a running QB is just better. Several times the QB could've run for 10 yards. Not ours, he'd slide at 5 yards.
Honestly, the offense is too basic and the playbook too limited. We could have packages for Shrader. We could do more in the run game. But we never will.
SEC defenses will limit us to 3 yard passes and wait for the INT.

[msstate7]

https://www.uwdawgpound.com/2019/11/...otball-cougars

"Lake said, “They do the same thing year in and year out […] so it makes it really easy to game-plan […] They can only do one thing – that handcuffs you a little bit. It was definitely to our advantage, and we took advantage of it.”"

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...-states-mike-/

"Last year, after a 28-15 win for the Huskies in Pullman, the defensive coordinator was quoted as saying, “Next year maybe he’ll throw a little curveball, but it makes it very easy when you know what you’re going to get. … But knowing what I read about the head football coach here, he does things a little bit different way. So hopefully he remains here for a long time. That would be awesome.”"

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...et-mike-leach/

"To be fair, the Cougs face eight-man coverages from other opponents, too, and seem to handle it just fine. So why are the Huskies so effective with it? “They really know what they’re doing,” said WSU receiver Renard Bell. “When most teams drop eight against us, they’re switching their defense … they’re not really accustomed to it.”". In there you also have a tweet from a former UW defensive player saying Leach never changes the O from year to year.

So basically, Leach will always run the same O with no wrinkles added and the only difference between scoring 30+ or 14- is how well the D "knows what they're doing" in a 8 man zone. Well Arky knew what they were doing.

Good finds

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

In the SEC, you're going to need a QB that can run. This offense with a running QB is just better. Several times the QB could've run for 10 yards. Not ours, he'd slide at 5 yards.
Honestly, the offense is too basic and the playbook too limited. We could have packages for Shrader. We could do more in the run game. But we never will.
SEC defenses will limit us to 3 yard passes and wait for the INT.

That's what Kliff Kingsburry is doing at the Cardinals- air raid with no RB and a mobile QB. They're careful to have Murray avoid hits, but he does scramble for a 1st whenever the D gives it.

However, I feel like Zone does pretty good vs a mobile QB. They'll always have close guys facing the LOS

[Cooterpoot]

That's what Kliff Kingsburry is doing at the Cardinals- air raid with no RB and a mobile QB. They're careful to have Murray avoid hits, but he does scramble for a 1st whenever the D gives it.

However, I feel like Zone does pretty good vs a mobile QB. They'll always have close guys facing the LOS

Can't go empty. You still need another running threat. With two, you can't just basically spy a guy.

[msstate7]

That's what Kliff Kingsburry is doing at the Cardinals- air raid with no RB and a mobile QB. They're careful to have Murray avoid hits, but he does scramble for a 1st whenever the D gives it.

However, I feel like Zone does pretty good vs a mobile QB. They'll always have close guys facing the LOS

Defenders have to act quick though vs a mobile qb. If qb moves outside pocket, defenders get out of position quickly bc of qb running threat. This is all moot though bc leach isn't going for a mobile qb

[TrapGame]

The bad part is we figured out how to break it in the third quarter. You take what the defense gives you. If they are going to give you five yards underneath, then take it. The defense was having to crash down from 5-10 yards away every play and was eventually going to run out of gas. You take the five yard run. You take the short screens and slants. You let the defense wear themselves out and eventually you guys break one or you take a deep shot. Basically what Arkansas did to us. They burned us twice with the same screen play. KJ did it great one drive, then got greedy and kept trying to force the ball deeper into the zone.

Spot on.

Costello wanted to be the passing king again when he could have dumped it off for five yards every play. EVERY. PLAY.

Losing Hill hurt a lot. Hill could have been the difference maker on a lot of drives.

[KOdawg1]

Leach is going to have to adapt. And I know, Leach is who is his, and he hasn't shown much adapting in his career, but he's in the big leagues now. Every single defense in the country has the book on how to stop him. He's gotta throw more wrinkles in his offense. More play-action, read options, designed QB scrambles. Something he's never had to do. Because if he doesn't, we're going to have a lot of games like we had last night. And this experiment will be over before it starts.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The bad part is we figured out how to break it in the third quarter. You take what the defense gives you. If they are going to give you five yards underneath, then take it. The defense was having to crash down from 5-10 yards away every play and was eventually going to run out of gas. You take the five yard run. You take the short screens and slants. You let the defense wear themselves out and eventually you guys break one or you take a deep shot. Basically what Arkansas did to us. They burned us twice with the same screen play. KJ did it great one drive, then got greedy and kept trying to force the ball deeper into the zone.

so basically mount 10-15 play drives of short gains, where a single missed block, penalty, inaccurate throw, bad QB decision, or slipping RB derails it? That's bleak as hell

[msstate7]

so basically mount 10-15 play drives of short gains, where a single missed block, penalty, inaccurate throw, bad QB decision, or slipping RB derails it? That's bleak as hell

If you show you can do it with some consistency though, defenses have to adapt to stop it