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Thread: Luginbill: Leach will have to run the ball more

  1. #21
    Senior Member TNDawg35's Avatar
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    The first thing to understand about Leach, is no one understands Leach. The Pirate will do whatever the 17 he wants to make sure he wins games.

  2. #22
    Senior Member msu15's Avatar
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    I can't believe Shotgun hasn't commented
    Fire Ben Howland

  3. #23
    Senior Member StarkVegasSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    So, do we need to start an over/under on when the first "RTGDB" melt takes place on here?? I'm thinking half-time of the Arkansas game.
    4th quarter LSU as we're trying to salt the game away.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    My thoughs are that hes probably thinking "Air raid" = long developing deep passes, and "SEC defenses" = you dont have time for that.

    I agree on the second part, you cant have your plays take forever to develop ala JoMo. But after 18 years of stats its clear that "Air Raid" both gets the ball out quick and has plenty of short throw safety valves. So im not really sure he needs to "keep the defense honest", so to speak.

    Now, many posters are saying Leach runs the ball all day if thats what the D gives him... im not sold on that:

    I watched the '07 TT game vs Texas, and sure enough he did run the ball literally every first or 2nd or 3rd and short down that the D gave a 5 man box to him.

    However, his WSU Os always sucked vs Washington. I've always assumed it was a talent discrepancy, but Washington fans say Leach REFUSED to adapt his O either in game or between seasons, and he never ran the ball. I watched the '18 WSU v UW game and sure enough, washington was giving 3 man fronts and 4-5 man boxes all game and leach simply would not hand it off.

    Is it possible Leach didnt think his 5 OL could block 3 DL well eough to ensure a good gain? Maybe. Or maybe he just wants to call the plays he wants to call whether they work or not. Im not sure which it is honestly
    Check out the talent delta between WSU and UW.

    WSU recruits in the 60-70's, UW recruits in the top 15. It's literally Memphis vs Ohio State.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve View Post
    So you're expecting Kylin Hill to catch between 70-100 passes this year...?..that would make him our leading receiver and mean that during a regular season he would be expected to catch between 100-130 passes. That would put him in the top 10 all time in receptions in a season. I think 70-100 in a regular 12-13 game season is reasonable. But with a shortened schedule of conference only opponents and the first year in a new offense I think between 35-50 receptions would be a hell of a season.
    Yes.
    Kylin Hill will have 200 touches. He will be in our top 3 receivers. That means a lot of passes caught.

    That's the air raid offense. There is 18 years of evidence how Mike Leach uses Running backs..

    Actual stats for runs per game for Leach:
    TTU
    2000 Starting RB had 127 carries, 52 catches
    2001 Starting RB had 142 carries, 92 catches (Led team)
    2002 Starting RB had 153 carries, 98 catches (Led Team)
    2003 Starting RB had 124 carries, 78 catches
    2004 Starting RB had 162 carries, 60 catches
    2005 Starting RB had 148 carries, 67 catches (Led Team)
    2006 starting RB had 152 carries, 75 catches (
    2007 Starting RB had 84 carries, 34 catches *this team had Crabtree and Amidola catching 243 passes
    2008 Starting RB had 141 carries, 36 catches, backup RB had 113 carries, and 35 catches
    2009 Starting RB had 158 carries, 60 catches
    WSU
    Ran out of time, and the WSU RB's sucked. Kylin Hill does not suck.

    And your math is wrong, a 12 games season will be 20% more catches , so if you expect 70-100 "normally", you should expect 55-80 this year. Which is what I said.



    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...e-leach-1.html

  6. #26
    Senior Member Cooterpoot's Avatar
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    I'm going to somewhat disagree. I think he'll need a mobile QB, a legit defense, and a stud WR. Look at the Cardinals and Kingsbury is doing. He's basically running our offense with a mobile QB. He brought in a great WR while trading off his RB. The defense is scrappy. Murray brings a huge advantage being able to make plays.

  7. #27
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedDawg View Post
    Because Bama, LSU, and Auburn don't have good run defenses?

    That "SEC defenses will eat them up" is kind of a ridiculous statement that I've seen ever since State hired Leach. Bama and LSU tend to stop everyone. If anything, good passing teams have been the ones to challenge and even beat them.

    That and the entire SEC doesn't have elite defenses like Bama and LSU. State will move the ball just fine against Arkansas, OM, Vandy, Missouri, A&M, and probably even UK and Auburn.
    This. He thinks their front 7's are too good to throw it all day...so he thinks the solution is to RUN it against them?!

    Leach's offense is designed to slice up an over-aggressive defense. It's perhaps the best offense ever constructed to do that. If a Bama is well-disciplined, it will be very hard to move it on them through the air. Of course, it will be basically impossible to move it on them on the ground.

    Leach throws the ball, but he doesn't launch it down the field constantly. He uses the passing game in many ways to replace the running game by simply getting the RB or slot WR in space and advance it more quickly.

    Hasn't Ole Miss proven, though, that perhaps the best way for a less talented team to beat Bama is to just chuck the ball downfield indiscriminately?

    This whole 'Leach can't do that in the SEC' talk reminds me of the people who kept saying you couldn't win in basketball by just shooting 3's all game. The only problem is, it's the opposite of true. The future of football will be continuing to throw it more and more, just like the future of basketball has been continuing to shoot more and more 3's. It's just a better way of advancing the ball down the field.
    Last edited by smootness; 09-15-2020 at 02:10 PM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    This. He thinks their front 7's are too good to throw it all day...so he thinks the solution is to RUN it against them?!

    Leach's offense is designed to slice up an over-aggressive defense. It's perhaps the best offense ever constructed to do that. If a Bama is well-disciplined, it will be very hard to move it on them through the air. Of course, it will be basically impossible to move it on them on the ground.

    Leach throws the ball, but he doesn't launch it down the field constantly. He uses the passing game in many ways to replace the running game by simply getting the RB or slot WR in space and advance it more quickly.

    Hasn't Ole Miss proven, though, that perhaps the best way for a less talented team to beat Bama is to just chuck the ball downfield indiscriminately?

    This whole 'Leach can't do that in the SEC' talk reminds me of the people who kept saying you couldn't win in basketball by just shooting 3's all game. The only problem is, it's the opposite of true. The future of football will be continuing to throw it more and more, just like the future of basketball has been continuing to shoot more and more 3's. It's just a better way of advancing the ball down the field.
    I don't think Luginbill has done his homework regarding Leach. I think this was a question thrown out by Bo and Luges just tried to bullshit his way through it. I mean, LSU wasn't exactly setting ground records for RBs last year. Burrow was throwing it around a lot. I guess Luges missed that whole Joe Brady inspired, Heisman winning season.

  9. #29
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    Johnny football and ole miss under Hugh Freeze are examples that you do not have to run the ball as much as people think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    I don't think Luginbill has done his homework regarding Leach. I think this was a question thrown out by Bo and Luges just tried to bullshit his way through it. I mean, LSU wasn't exactly setting ground records for RBs last year. Burrow was throwing it around a lot. I guess Luges missed that whole Joe Brady inspired, Heisman winning season.
    A video of a bad WSU team vs an good SEC team


  11. #31
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us View Post
    My thoughs are that hes probably thinking "Air raid" = long developing deep passes, and "SEC defenses" = you dont have time for that.

    I agree on the second part, you cant have your plays take forever to develop ala JoMo. But after 18 years of stats its clear that "Air Raid" both gets the ball out quick and has plenty of short throw safety valves. So im not really sure he needs to "keep the defense honest", so to speak.

    Now, many posters are saying Leach runs the ball all day if thats what the D gives him... im not sold on that:

    I watched the '07 TT game vs Texas, and sure enough he did run the ball literally every first or 2nd or 3rd and short down that the D gave a 5 man box to him.

    However, his WSU Os always sucked vs Washington. I've always assumed it was a talent discrepancy, but Washington fans say Leach REFUSED to adapt his O either in game or between seasons, and he never ran the ball. I watched the '18 WSU v UW game and sure enough, washington was giving 3 man fronts and 4-5 man boxes all game and leach simply would not hand it off.

    Is it possible Leach didnt think his 5 OL could block 3 DL well eough to ensure a good gain? Maybe. Or maybe he just wants to call the plays he wants to call whether they work or not. Im not sure which it is honestly
    When Vita Vea was the UDub NG for most of those years, yeah Wazzou couldn?t run the ball
    CAN'T PUT A SADDLE ON A MUSTANG

    Quit Your Bi$&$&?!, He's Not Going to Run the Ball More

  12. #32
    Senior Member TrapGame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    A video of a bad WSU team vs an good SEC team

    Thanks man. I gonna piss off my wife and watch this in bed tonight.

  13. #33
    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    Leach will face 2 or 3 defenses this year (and every year) that we will struggle to put up a ton of points on. There is no magic potion to beat a bunch of 5 stars with a bunch of 3 stars. Leach has done more with less than any coach in the country for 20 years. He will take what the defense gives him, just like he did the 5 times he played Ole Miss, the 9 or 10 times he played A&M and Missouri, and the time he played National Championship game participate Auburn in 2013. He's not changing his philosophy. He has more talent as well, so it equals out.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrapGame View Post
    Thanks man. I gonna piss off my wife and watch this in bed tonight.
    It's not that long a video

    Remember this is year 2 of Leach at WSU. Auburn played in the BCS that year.

    Recruiting rankings for WSU for the 4 years before
    2009 63
    2010 65
    2011 68
    2012 58
    2013 50

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    Leach will face 2 or 3 defenses this year (and every year) that we will struggle to put up a ton of points on. There is no magic potion to beat a bunch of 5 stars with a bunch of 3 stars. Leach has done more with less than any coach in the country for 20 years. He will take what the defense gives him, just like he did the 5 times he played Ole Miss, the 9 or 10 times he played A&M and Missouri, and the time he played National Championship game participate Auburn in 2013. He's not changing his philosophy. He has more talent as well, so it equals out.

    Watch the cut up of the 6-7 WSU team on the road vs a 12-2 Auburn team.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    This. He thinks their front 7's are too good to throw it all day...so he thinks the solution is to RUN it against them?!

    Leach's offense is designed to slice up an over-aggressive defense. It's perhaps the best offense ever constructed to do that. If a Bama is well-disciplined, it will be very hard to move it on them through the air. Of course, it will be basically impossible to move it on them on the ground.

    Leach throws the ball, but he doesn't launch it down the field constantly. He uses the passing game in many ways to replace the running game by simply getting the RB or slot WR in space and advance it more quickly.

    Hasn't Ole Miss proven, though, that perhaps the best way for a less talented team to beat Bama is to just chuck the ball downfield indiscriminately?

    This whole 'Leach can't do that in the SEC' talk reminds me of the people who kept saying you couldn't win in basketball by just shooting 3's all game. The only problem is, it's the opposite of true. The future of football will be continuing to throw it more and more, just like the future of basketball has been continuing to shoot more and more 3's. It's just a better way of advancing the ball down the field.
    Completely agree. To add, which makes more sense - Try and slam a bunch of our 3 star guys into a pile against Alabama/LSU 5 stars with the hopes of pushing them back or finding a hole and coming out clean on the other side... OR... Try and get the ball to our guys in space and MAYBE one of our guys can make one of their guys miss an open field tackle? It's going to be hard either way, maybe impossible, but I'd rather us try to something different from what Mullen already showed us wouldn't work against the elite defenses.

    Now, obviously you can't try something different at the expense of not being able to make it work against the average and below-average defenses, but Leach's system has feasted when he had comparable or even just slightly less talent than his opponent.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Ari Gold's Avatar
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    So Lugis is saying Leach wouldn’t have run Holloway up the middle on third and short much??
    Ok I can live with that..

  18. #38
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Johnny football and ole miss under Hugh Freeze are examples that you do not have to run the ball as much as people think.
    And the whole reason Mullen could never really compete with Bama. Running the ball was the bread and butter of the Mullen offense and it got stymied against a great front 7.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    I thought LSU and Alabama already disproved this theory?

    At any rate, Mike Leach is probably OK with people telling him what he will have to do to succeed by now. It has only been happening for 20 years now.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
    So Lugis is saying Leach wouldn’t have run Holloway up the middle on third and short much??
    Ok I can live with that..
    Even worse- QB draw on 4th and 8 against Alabama when we were down by a TD late.

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