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Thread: Pac12 players threatening to boycott

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    Senior Member FISHDAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thick View Post
    Wtf.....a ?Get Started? stipend of $30k?? So, they get a free college education and then you give them $30k. Has everyone lost their freaking minds? I was 4 year scholarship player at MSU (3 year letterman), and I got a damn job utilizing my free college education. 26 years of medical sales, and I have lived a comfortable life with 3 daughters to boot. Those players are freaking coddled as shit, and if you think otherwise, then you really don?t know anything about college athletics.

    How much happens behind the scenes that don?t make it to the front pages or social media? You would be amazed, but if you start putting more money in their pockets you will see some outlandish shit happen. Remember where a lot of our kids come from. I guess liberals just don?t get until it?s too late.
    wished I could REP this ... very well said Thick
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Political Hack View Post
    I didn't compare it to slavery. People need to read more clearly. I said the argument that "the players don't have any leverage so don't listen to them" is an oppressive perspective that was used in the past to protect the institution of slavery. That can't be denied. It's just a factual comment. I did not compare college football to the system of slavery, but I did compare it to wndentured servitude.

    And yes, just because guys are rock stars and have it better than the normal student doesn't mean they shouldn't have a piece of the pie that they're risking their necks for. Coaches are making millions. Ath Dir's. Sponsors. ESPN. The conferences. The bowls. The cities. The universities. Everybody. Except the guys performing are ALLOWED to earn a piece of the pie. It's as UnAmerican of a concept as there's ever been. Give the guys a slice of the pie.

    Thats insane! They are getting paid - FREE EDUCATION plus other perks! Read other posts from people that received those perks in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thick View Post
    Wtf.....a ?Get Started? stipend of $30k?? So, they get a free college education and then you give them $30k. Has everyone lost their freaking minds? I was 4 year scholarship player at MSU (3 year letterman), and I got a damn job utilizing my free college education. 26 years of medical sales, and I have lived a comfortable life with 3 daughters to boot. Those players are freaking coddled as shit, and if you think otherwise, then you really don?t know anything about college athletics.

    How much happens behind the scenes that don?t make it to the front pages or social media? You would be amazed, but if you start putting more money in their pockets you will see some outlandish shit happen. Remember where a lot of our kids come from. I guess liberals just don?t get until it?s too late.

    Rep Given!

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Political Hack View Post
    Again, wasn't comparing it to slaves. I was pointing out that the argument being used to justify not paying athletes is unjust and oppressive. See my response to Todd.

    Also, Thick is right that you can't hand an 18 year old rock star $100,000 a year either. Put it in a fund and if they graduate, they get it. Incentive it and let them earn it as a STUDENT-athlete. It's not complicated. And it only matters for P5's. The rest of it is truly amateur football. But the P5 is commercialized out the ying yang and the players are not getting anywhere near the financial benefit they should, purely from an economic standpoint. I'm surprised you wouldn't promote that for your guys. I know you truly love all the kids that play for you. To me, I'd want them to have an opportunity to earn some of the money they bring in.
    I think you buried the lede with this. The economic impact of college football is enormous. It's not 1980 with a handful of teams on TV, and boys scouts running the concessions to fund trips to the Jamboree anymore. It's not even 2010 anymore. Just look at the impact a relevant, winning football team has had on our school and Starkville. CFB is a multi-billion dollar industry just like the NFL. Yes, players get an education and benefits. But, is that really in scale with the overall economy of college football?
    Is roughly $100,000 over 4 years a fair share of the pie? When the SEC is making $651 million; MSU athletics is making $65 million (after subtracting the SEC share of the $651 m); ESPN & CBS make Billions; Adidas, Learfield, Aaramark, Starkville, etc all make millions; and the local economy of small businesses all exist because of a game you play? ESPN can show you in hype commercials for games, use you to sell their websites and publication, but you can get suspended for a free meal. Is that a fair system of compensation?

    Now, I do think the PAC12 players are jumping the gun here. I think the NIL system has the potential to help equalize some of this. I don't have an answer, but I totally understand how the argument can be made that as a total system, CFB players are providing a bigger benefit to the schools then what they are receiving in return.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.
    Amen, they are also supposed to be amateurs and not professional athletes. College athletics was/is an extra curricular (an endeavor that is pursued in addition to the normal course of study) activity!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgology View Post
    Good for them. I hope this catches on all over so that we can finally create a minor league and let these guys go there and get college sports back to the amateur status they are supposed to be.
    Yep, I'm with you. Sick and tired of this junk. How soon can they leave?

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.
    Which they do in baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, hockey, and a number of Olympic sports. All of those have an outlet for those who have the talent to be professionals at an early age - as young as 16 in some instances - to begin making money off of their talents. Football is the lone sport where there is no alternative - you either go to college and hope to climb to the NFL or you are done. Can't turn pro at 16 like tennis. Can't get drafted at 18 like baseball and hockey. But, because college football established itself as marketable industry long before a professional outlet became available, it has been able to collude with the NFL to keep CFB as the only path to the NFL.

    College football players miss prime earning years compared to their peers in all major sports - and that is what college football players are beginning realize. They also realize that the NFL rookie contract structure makes it so that they will never come close to earning the monies that their athletic peers can between 18 and 30. Look at Dak - the most under valued player in the NFL. He'll be 27 next week is just finishing that rookie contract worth $3.6 million. He's made a reported $50m off endorsement deals (way more than most NFL players in his draft class), and add his "earnings" at MSU of a $100k education. Thats $53.7 million from 18-27. Not bad, but again unusual compared to most NFL players his age. But, compare it to an equivalent in baseball - say Jason Heyward - not a super star like Mike Trout. Heyward at age 30 has earned $98m - and is contractually owed another $79 million. That's salary alone for Jay Hey, not endorsement deals.

    So, if you look through the economics of college football from a player compensation perspective - colleges are getting a deal.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.
    Yes, and where does it end? What about the cheerleaders, the band, ball boys, managers, etc, shouldn't they get a piece of it too because they're all involved in the experience as well. Some businesses(huge multi-billion dollar companies) have internships where you make little to nothing/nothing just to get a chance to learn or develop a skill where you can make a big paycheck and career. Do like a baseball, make a minor league for those that don't want to go play college ball and get an education. This would be opening pandoras box. Heck most football players are probably getting paid more and getting perks that are more than they would get from some revenue sharing deal, especially in the SEC.
    Last edited by Commercecomet24; 07-21-2020 at 01:08 PM.

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    Senior Member basedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Which they do in baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, hockey, and a number of Olympic sports. All of those have an outlet for those who have the talent to be professionals at an early age - as young as 16 in some instances - to begin making money off of their talents. Football is the lone sport where there is no alternative - you either go to college and hope to climb to the NFL or you are done. Can't turn pro at 16 like tennis. Can't get drafted at 18 like baseball and hockey. But, because college football established itself as marketable industry long before a professional outlet became available, it has been able to collude with the NFL to keep CFB as the only path to the NFL.

    College football players miss prime earning years compared to their peers in all major sports - and that is what college football players are beginning realize. They also realize that the NFL rookie contract structure makes it so that they will never come close to earning the monies that their athletic peers can between 18 and 30. Look at Dak - the most under valued player in the NFL. He'll be 27 next week is just finishing that rookie contract worth $3.6 million. He's made a reported $50m off endorsement deals (way more than most NFL players in his draft class), and add his "earnings" at MSU of a $100k education. Thats $53.7 million from 18-27. Not bad, but again unusual compared to most NFL players his age. But, compare it to an equivalent in baseball - say Jason Heyward - not a super star like Mike Trout. Heyward at age 30 has earned $98m - and is contractually owed another $79 million. That's salary alone for Jay Hey, not endorsement deals.

    So, if you look through the economics of college football from a player compensation perspective - colleges are getting a deal.
    First off, football is totally different than any sport mentioned, it's a grown man full contact sport. Most football players at 18-20 year old aren't even close to being a Professional. As far as the age goes to be drafted, I see no problem.
    When colleges start paying players with cash or incentives to cash, then the game of college football will be filled with lawyers, agents and unions.
    College football want be the same giving football players money, then what will all the other sport program players think about their share? This giving money to football players go way beyond just them.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basedog View Post
    First off, football is totally different than any sport mentioned, it's a grown man full contact sport. Most football players at 18-20 year old aren't even close to being a Professional. As far as the age goes to be drafted, I see no problem.
    When colleges start paying players with cash or incentives to cash, then the game of college football will be filled with lawyers, agents and unions.
    College football want be the same giving football players money, then what will all the other sport program players think about their share? This giving money to football players go way beyond just them.
    We wouldn't know, we've never been allowed to find out. And, believe me, there would be players who could do it. I KNOW Herschel and Bo could have. Probably Deion Sanders and Randy Moss. Probably a number of skill position guys can. Yeah, guys like that are the exception - but so are Tiger, Kobe, Agassi, McEnroe, Serena Williams, Wayne Rooney, Bryce Hunter, Ronald Acuna, etc. They had the talent and opportunity to do it. Along with them are thousands who never made it as household names but maximized their abilities and earnings to make a comfortable life for themselves and their families. You would have the same thing in the NFL - the NFL would put money in player development, get those guys to a training table just like the SEC does, and in a year or maybe two a guy like Chris Jones or Jeff Simmons could make their way into the rotation.
    Last edited by BrunswickDawg; 07-21-2020 at 02:07 PM.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    We wouldn't know, we've never been allowed to find out. And, believe me, there would be players who could do it. I KNOW Herschel and Bo could have. Probably Deion Sanders and Randy Moss. Probably a number of skill position guys can. Yeah, guys like that are the exception - but so are Tiger, Kobe, Agassi, McEnroe, Serena Williams, Wayne Rooney, Bryce Hunter, Ronald Acuna, etc. They had the talent and opportunity to do it. Along with them are thousands who never made it as household names but maximized their abilities and earnings to make a comfortable life for themselves and their families. You would have the same thing in the NFL - the NFL would put money in player development, get those guys to a training table just like the SEC does, and in a year or maybe two a guy like Chris Jones or Jeff Simmons could make their way into the rotation.
    A university's objective is to give a student athlete an education ... not to recruit for the NFL, NBA, MLB, or PGA .... both sides benefit already - how is this a bad thing? What else does the university owe them?
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISHDAWG View Post
    A university's objective is to give a student athlete an education ... not to recruit for the NFL, NBA, MLB, or PGA .... both sides benefit already - how is this a bad thing? What else does the university owe them?
    In theory, I don't disagree. But, the first time a college football coach became the highest paid employee on campus, it quit being about giving a student athlete an education. We can pretend all we want to that CFB is about the student athlete, but it hasn't been for a long time. DIII and NAIA is about student athletes. DI is all about money.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I think you buried the lede with this. The economic impact of college football is enormous. It's not 1980 with a handful of teams on TV, and boys scouts running the concessions to fund trips to the Jamboree anymore. It's not even 2010 anymore. Just look at the impact a relevant, winning football team has had on our school and Starkville. CFB is a multi-billion dollar industry just like the NFL. Yes, players get an education and benefits. But, is that really in scale with the overall economy of college football?
    Is roughly $100,000 over 4 years a fair share of the pie? When the SEC is making $651 million; MSU athletics is making $65 million (after subtracting the SEC share of the $651 m); ESPN & CBS make Billions; Adidas, Learfield, Aaramark, Starkville, etc all make millions; and the local economy of small businesses all exist because of a game you play? ESPN can show you in hype commercials for games, use you to sell their websites and publication, but you can get suspended for a free meal. Is that a fair system of compensation?

    Now, I do think the PAC12 players are jumping the gun here. I think the NIL system has the potential to help equalize some of this. I don't have an answer, but I totally understand how the argument can be made that as a total system, CFB players are providing a bigger benefit to the schools then what they are receiving in return.
    Good to see a fellow American in here that believes you should be able to earn some of the money you help generate. Rest of you socialist need to go to China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    In theory, I don't disagree. But, the first time a college football coach became the highest paid employee on campus, it quit being about giving a student athlete an education. We can pretend all we want to that CFB is about the student athlete, but it hasn't been for a long time. DIII and NAIA is about student athletes. DI is all about money.
    So your saying draft eligibility after High School graduation. If so, I could live with that, I'm just not for universities paying student athletes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I think you buried the lede with this. The economic impact of college football is enormous. It's not 1980 with a handful of teams on TV, and boys scouts running the concessions to fund trips to the Jamboree anymore. It's not even 2010 anymore. Just look at the impact a relevant, winning football team has had on our school and Starkville. CFB is a multi-billion dollar industry just like the NFL. Yes, players get an education and benefits. But, is that really in scale with the overall economy of college football?
    Is roughly $100,000 over 4 years a fair share of the pie? When the SEC is making $651 million; MSU athletics is making $65 million (after subtracting the SEC share of the $651 m); ESPN & CBS make Billions; Adidas, Learfield, Aaramark, Starkville, etc all make millions; and the local economy of small businesses all exist because of a game you play? ESPN can show you in hype commercials for games, use you to sell their websites and publication, but you can get suspended for a free meal. Is that a fair system of compensation?

    Now, I do think the PAC12 players are jumping the gun here. I think the NIL system has the potential to help equalize some of this. I don't have an answer, but I totally understand how the argument can be made that as a total system, CFB players are providing a bigger benefit to the schools then what they are receiving in return.
    100% agree, but then you can argue to say screw the players and their unequal benefit. the NCAA is the only show in town and they do not have to be fair.
    What is fair, really? Without the machine that is the NCAA, 98% of the players would be up shit creek, including all of hte other sports. Some baseball could go to the minors as a 35th round draft pick and starve to death for 3 years until they realize they do not have what it takes. Football players really have zero other options. Basketball....well Europe is an option.

    All in all, you sign a letter of intent to meet the guidelines of the NCAA. No one forced it. It is kind of like Scotty Pippen's contract with the Bulls. I think MJ made his entire salary in 12 games or something.

    I do believe all players should have the option to make side money, just like any other student. I do believe all players should be able to transfer to any college that would admit them, like all other students have the ability to do. I do not like what each of these mean for college sports, but fair is fair.

    Could we get Leo Seal family to "hire" a few 5* players to be official spokesmen for the bank. Pay them a few hundred thousand a year. Sure. but then old tobacco dude from Ole Miss could pay their guys a million a year. Slippery slope, but fair is fair. They should have the same rights as other students and no one else should be able to use their likeness if they cannot. Espn in particular.
    Downvotes_Hype

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    In theory, I don't disagree. But, the first time a college football coach became the highest paid employee on campus, it quit being about giving a student athlete an education. We can pretend all we want to that CFB is about the student athlete, but it hasn't been for a long time. DIII and NAIA is about student athletes. DI is all about money.
    I get what your point is and I understand that - not necessarily agreeing with it but an incredibly small percentage of these athletes go pro... so is it right to pay ALL of them for the sake of a very few? Those very few that do make it will get theirs eventually and they have the university to thank for that....but the academic and baseball scholarships just have to be content with only an education.... You're a good poster Brunswick and I enjoy your post so don't take mine as being argumentative - it's just a difference of opinion
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    Which they do in baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, hockey, and a number of Olympic sports. All of those have an outlet for those who have the talent to be professionals at an early age - as young as 16 in some instances - to begin making money off of their talents. Football is the lone sport where there is no alternative - you either go to college and hope to climb to the NFL or you are done. Can't turn pro at 16 like tennis. Can't get drafted at 18 like baseball and hockey. But, because college football established itself as marketable industry long before a professional outlet became available, it has been able to collude with the NFL to keep CFB as the only path to the NFL.

    College football players miss prime earning years compared to their peers in all major sports - and that is what college football players are beginning realize. They also realize that the NFL rookie contract structure makes it so that they will never come close to earning the monies that their athletic peers can between 18 and 30. Look at Dak - the most under valued player in the NFL. He'll be 27 next week is just finishing that rookie contract worth $3.6 million. He's made a reported $50m off endorsement deals (way more than most NFL players in his draft class), and add his "earnings" at MSU of a $100k education. Thats $53.7 million from 18-27. Not bad, but again unusual compared to most NFL players his age. But, compare it to an equivalent in baseball - say Jason Heyward - not a super star like Mike Trout. Heyward at age 30 has earned $98m - and is contractually owed another $79 million. That's salary alone for Jay Hey, not endorsement deals.

    So, if you look through the economics of college football from a player compensation perspective - colleges are getting a deal.

    College athletes are amateurs as they are supposed to be Student-Athletes. Notice the word Student comes first. The first or primary purpose of college is to get an education. If a player wants to forgo an education and be paid for his/her talents, then go get job or get drafted in some farm league to their respective sport. If an appropriate farm league does not exist, then I guess you have a business opportunity to start one! Go for it!
    Last edited by Extendedcab; 07-21-2020 at 03:54 PM.

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    General Public Political Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISHDAWG View Post
    I can't believe he as a MODERATOR said this shit ... I'm so 17'n tired of post getting destroyed like this ... I tried to block him but the site won't let me just because he's a mod ...cant we have some threads once in a while that go uncorrupted ????
    Your profanity is offensive.

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    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FISHDAWG View Post
    I get what your point is and I understand that - not necessarily agreeing with it but an incredibly small percentage of these athletes go pro... so is it right to pay ALL of them for the sake of a very few? Those very few that do make it will get theirs eventually and they have the university to thank for that....but the academic and baseball scholarships just have to be content with only an education.... You're a good poster Brunswick and I enjoy your post so don't take mine as being argumentative - it's just a difference of opinion
    No harm no foul Fish -

    I think the overall point I'm making is two fold - 1) this is a much more complicated issue than other sports that have a professional route; and 2) the time is long passed that "amateurism" and "student-athlete" is the reality that we should be basing decisions on - at least at DI football. Really, with the overall scope of money involved; the year round commitment by the athletes; and the way the entire system profits off of the program, there is room and funding for change. People can lament the change, and that's fine. I don't like the DH and astro turf - so we all have changes about sports we don't like. Life moves on.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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