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Thread: KSU football team refusing to practice or play

  1. #121
    Senior Member Lord McBuckethead's Avatar
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    Well, the kid probably shouldn't be expelled, but if he got his ass kicked I would chuckle.
    Downvotes_Hype

  2. #122
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chef dixon View Post
    I mean you can interpret it any way you want I suppose. My point was just that free speech has never been applied equally in this country since its origin. The only difference now is that a lot of people who were bullet proof for so long behind that amendment are having to get uncomfortable.
    I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to argue. It's definitely true that these things did not always apply to all equally as they should have, and that's very bad.

    The way to correct that is certainly not to do the same but just change the group that isn't treated equally.

    I'm not saying this in relation to this moron at KSU or defending him. But if you want society to go in the crapper, limiting the freedom of speech is a great first step. You seem to not care about it, but you would in a heartbeat once it was gone and you suddenly had a viewpoint that wasn't allowed.

  3. #123
    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really Clark? View Post
    Actually according to the Supreme Court, in numerous occasions over the decades, it most certainly does mean his free speech is protected from expulsion. It does happen but the courts consistently rule against public universities, they are an extension of the government. Just like they protect professors who make inflammatory statements that bring outrage to the offended parties and the university may even issue a statement of how they condemn the professors remarks, they also clearly claim that it?s their right to free speech and they cannot remove that professor due to their rights. You can?t wrap yourself in free speech blanket in that case to say your hands are tied and then try to censor free speech in another case, especially in cases where they are both racist type remarks. It absolutely has to be covered under the same umbrella or else you do not have free speech for all citizens, you are then weighing speech you don?t like to have heavier consequences. No matter which side of the argument you fall on it has to be protected at public universities or the constitution has to change.

    Then why do schools have dress codes?

  4. #124
    Senior Member Really Clark?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    Then why do schools have dress codes?
    At public universities? They don’t really, certain classes may require appropriate attire like closed toe shoes for a chemical lab or you can’t violate decency laws, like nudity or only in underwear. But I’ve seen students show up in sleep wear.

    As far as dress codes go as a free speech issue with schools below college level, the Supreme Court hasn’t really addressed that issue as completely unconstitutional as it concerns uniforms, dress codes or grooming requirements. Courts have ruled that schools utilizing a school uniform doesn’t violate civil rights of student when it is consistent and fair for all of the student body. You have a higher civil right to receive an education and a school dress code doesn’t infringe on that right. But that has nothing to really do with universities
    Last edited by Really Clark?; 06-29-2020 at 10:52 PM.

  5. #125
    Senior Member FISHDAWG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead View Post
    Well, the kid probably shouldn't be expelled, but if he got his ass kicked I would chuckle.
    same can be said for so many professors
    OXFORD, Miss. (WTVA) - Ole Miss campus police ask students to behave at future baseball games following a recent incident.
    The university said students were reportedly throwing rocks at Georgia baseball players during last weekend's series.

  6. #126
    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really Clark? View Post
    At public universities? They don’t really, certain classes may require appropriate attire like closed toe shoes for a chemical lab or you can’t violate decency laws, like nudity or only in underwear. But I’ve seen students show up in sleep wear.

    As far as dress codes go as a free speech issue with schools below college level, the Supreme Court hasn’t really addressed that issue as completely unconstitutional as it concerns uniforms, dress codes or grooming requirements. Courts have ruled that schools utilizing a school uniform doesn’t violate civil rights of student when it is consistent and fair for all of the student body. You have a higher civil right to receive an education and a school dress code doesn’t infringe on that right. But that has nothing to really do with universities
    I think the biggest thing you said there was “consistent and fair across the board”. We are getting into “1984” territory with the thought police. I don’t believe the kid should be expelled for this and I would hope the school doesn’t cave to the woke mob. I still believe that they have the right to expel him but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    I think the biggest thing you said there was “consistent and fair across the board”. We are getting into “1984” territory with the thought police. I don’t believe the kid should be expelled for this and I would hope the school doesn’t cave to the woke mob. I still believe that they have the right to expel him but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
    Are you saying that as a normative statement? Or a positive one? Because legally, they don't have the ability to punish him for protected speech. Primary and secondary schools do get a lot of leeway in the balancing act of maintaining order versus first amendment rights, but universities don't get that much. Certainly not to the point of allowing viewpoint discrimination.

    And if you look at the type of people that tend to have an outsized influence on universities (if not dominate them), it doesn't take long to see the wisdom of that approach. You wouldn't just have people punished for outrageous speech. You'd have people punished for saying things like "all lives matter." And while people on the left have such a stranglehold on most of our government and educational institutions that many of them no longer think about the possibility that they will need protection from the mob in the future, before the last decade or so, it was generally people on the left needing free speech protection.

  8. #128
    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    First Amendment does not protect behavior on campus that crosses the line into targeted harassment or threats, or that creates a pervasively hostile environment for vulnerable students. I believe this student’s “joke” will be put into that category by the school if they do decide to expel him. I also think it’s eye roll worthy but I believe it will be used to justify it.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    First Amendment does not protect behavior on campus that crosses the line into targeted harassment or threats, or that creates a pervasively hostile environment for vulnerable students. I believe this student’s “joke” will be put into that category by the school if they do decide to expel him. I also think it’s eye roll worthy but I believe it will be used to justify it.
    First, it doesn't come close to falling in any of those exceptions.

    Second, I'd be interested to see the caselaw providing an exception for pervasively hostile environment for vulnerable students. I suspect whatever is out there is nowhere near the universe of the situation at hand.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    First Amendment does not protect behavior on campus that crosses the line into targeted harassment or threats, or that creates a pervasively hostile environment for vulnerable students. I believe this student’s “joke” will be put into that category by the school if they do decide to expel him. I also think it’s eye roll worthy but I believe it will be used to justify it.
    The case law is clear that targeted threats have to be just that, individualized targeted threats. No way that comment is targeted at any individual.

    As for the hostile learning environment, that is covered under title 6 of the civil rights. The following link is a good analysis of how that functions in the confines of the first amendment. Brief version is the first amendment controls.

    https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/li...irstamend.html

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson85 View Post
    First, it doesn't come close to falling in any of those exceptions.

    Second, I'd be interested to see the caselaw providing an exception for pervasively hostile environment for vulnerable students. I suspect whatever is out there is nowhere near the universe of the situation at hand.
    It's not. SCOTUS has never addressed it I don't think. But courts that have, and the ocr which enforces title 6, has said that the harassment "must include something beyond the expression of words, views, symbols, or thoughts that some person finds offensive." The harassment must "deny or limit a students ability to participate in an educational program." Even then, if the conduct at issue is solely speech that is protected under the first amendment, it is not punishable. The ocr says "all actions taken by ocr must comport with first amendment principles."

  12. #132
    Bennie Brown Know-It-All
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    I hope you guys are correct and I am wrong (won’t be the last time). I definitely don’t want this to become the norm and I am ready for some of the wokeness to get some real pushback.

  13. #133
    Senior Member Jack Lambert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    I hope you guys are correct and I am wrong (won’t be the last time). I definitely don’t want this to become the norm and I am ready for some of the wokeness to get some real pushback.
    There has to be an end. I suspect the silent majority is starting to figure out a lot this is taking advantage of a situation.

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