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Thread: KSU football team refusing to practice or play

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really Clark? View Post
    Guys, this issue has been settled in courts already, all the way to the Supreme Court. A public university CANNOT infringe on his first amendment rights, and when argued at the Supreme Court level over students, it has been over them being expelled multiple times. And we are talking about speech from both extremes of the political divide. It’s been shot down by the Supreme Court time and time again.
    Correct. I tried to explain the analysis above briefly (my bad on missing on the obscenity category).

  2. #42
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    That's fine. Enforce it evenly though. Professors say much worse than this all the time with no consequence.
    And I'm in no way saying KSU SHOULD do something to this guy. I'm just saying that universities do have the ability to set standards of student conduct which includes if someone is saying offensive things to other students. Hate speech against another race or something along those lines would normally be something a university would not want to tolerate but I don't know that an insensitive comment like this about Floyd would even rise to that. Its a very slippery slope for a college institution to know where to draw the line. And social media has made this problem a much bigger issue. In the past, really only media, politicians, celebrities, etc. had a platform for everyone to know what they are saying. Now, with online social media, every stupid comment by every Tom, Dick and Harry is out there for the world to see.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    Hate speech
    No such thing, legally.

  4. #44
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really Clark? View Post
    Guys, this issue has been settled in courts already, all the way to the Supreme Court. A public university CANNOT infringe on his first amendment rights, and when argued at the Supreme Court level over students, it has been over them being expelled multiple times. And we are talking about speech from both extremes of the political divide. It?s been shot down by the Supreme Court time and time again.
    Political speech is definitely protected. If I as a student ran around calling every black person on campus that I saw the 'N' word, I don't think that is protected. Didn't Georgia dismiss a student for calling Justin Fields that?

  5. #45
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    Hypothetical here.

    Kapernick was paid by NFL and represented NFL. While I definitely didn't agree with what happened there, their ratings did take a hit for it and they made a financial (and also political) decision.

    On flip side ... the student is paying KSU for an education. So KSU is selling an education to the student. What if a business didn't want to sell something to a known protester cause of tweets they made that were controversial or racist against whites? What if the protester couldn't buy groceries at Walmart because of hateful tweets against whites?

    What the kid said may be callous and cold but doesn't necessarily make him evil. And the kid doesn't "represent" the university in any capacity.

  6. #46
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    I hope they call the players bluffs and make them show up or pull scholarships. I was all for flag removal but this is crossing the line for me. At some point we have to understand that we will always have to live life with people that we don't like and that see things differently than us. It's part of being a mature person. Some people never mature and it seems that the majority of our youngest generation may not either.

  7. #47
    Senior Member William Tecumsah Sherman's Avatar
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    The moral of the story is this: Pause for just a few seconds and think about what you are about to put on social media. Social media has lead to self destruction in a lot of cases

  8. #48
    Senior Member William Tecumsah Sherman's Avatar
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    And also: Don?t allow yourself to be offended by everything every idiot says!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Tecumsah Sherman View Post
    And also: Don?t allow yourself to be offended by everything every idiot says!
    This is the big one IMO. They're gonna be banning Chris Rock before long.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Tecumsah Sherman View Post
    And also: Don?t allow yourself to be offended by everything every idiot says!
    I agree with both of your statements. I was gonna say this same thing. Stop being offended!!! Grow some balls. People say and do stupid shit all the time. Don’t give them the time of day if you don’t like what they are saying.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Really Clark?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maroonmania View Post
    Political speech is definitely protected. If I as a student ran around calling every black person on campus that I saw the 'N' word, I don't think that is protected. Didn't Georgia dismiss a student for calling Justin Fields that?
    No they didn?t, he was dismissed from the baseball team, not the school and you will find that the Supreme Court has consistently struck down expelling students for racist speech on college campuses unless it incites immediate violence. Schools who have tried to write student code of conduct rules trying to eliminate free speech in some form have not fared well in the courts because just being offensive to a group of people for various reasons but the biggest is they all leave too much gray area for free speech rights to be subverted...and it?s a broad spectrum of right, left, race, culture, etc. speech that the Supreme Court has struck down from public universities attempting to restrict speech. Including cases about racist speech. And the ACLU, who most people identify as strictly as defending left side ideology the vast majority of the time, have also fought hard for right wing extremist speech as well on college campuses. Read a bunch of these decisions guys, I?m not saying that KSU won?t expell him, I?m saying they will lose and lose badly in this case, if he sues them. The Supreme Court has allowed much stronger language, much stronger racists remarks, much harsher bigotry ideals and speech at Universities. Faculty and students alike have said, organized, published, etc. much much worse and been found to have had their rights infringed upon by public universities who expell/fire them for such speech.
    Last edited by Really Clark?; 06-28-2020 at 01:24 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really Clark? View Post
    No they didn?t, he was dismissed from the baseball team, not the school and you will find that the Supreme Court has consistently struck down expelling students for racist speech on college campuses unless it incites immediate violence. Schools who have tried to write student code of conduct rules trying to eliminate free speech in some form have not fared well in the courts because just being offensive to a group of people for various reasons but the biggest is they all leave too much gray area for free speech rights to be subverted...and it?s a broad spectrum of right, left, race, culture, etc. speech that the Supreme Court has struck down from public universities attempting to restrict speech. Including cases about racist speech. And the ACLU, who most people identify as strictly as defending left side ideology the vast majority of the time, have also fought hard for right wing extremist speech as well on college campuses. Read a bunch of these decisions guys, I?m not saying that KSU won?t expell him, I?m saying they will lose and lose badly in this case, if he sues them. The Supreme Court has allowed much stronger language, much stronger racists remarks, much harsher bigotry ideals and speech at Universities. Faculty and students alike have said, organized, published, etc. much much worse and been found to have had their rights infringed upon by public universities who expell/fire them for such speech.
    Right on target. And please pay attention to the use of the word "immediate" here. KSU could prob get away with removing this kid from any school sponsored civic group he was the president of, but kicking him out of school would put them on the wrong end of a lawsuit. What he said was distasteful and seen even as racist, but it's protected speech.

  13. #53
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    Reading up more, Sounds like the likeliest scenario is that KSU will kick him out and settle out of court because they'll be ruled against. Similar cases around the country have had that outcome.

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    I?d be willing to bet that there?s a few players threatening to boycott that have songs on their playlist that glorify killing police, pimping out ho?s, slapping bitches and killing other human beings because they don?t wear the same color Nike shoes.
    I?m offended by that but I don?t drop in the Walmart parking lot and cry like a baby every time I hear it.
    People need to man the F up!!!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantheman4248 View Post
    Reading up more, Sounds like the likeliest scenario is that KSU will kick him out and settle out of court.
    I guarantee you that is not the likeliest scenario......

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex54 View Post
    I guarantee you that is not the likeliest scenario......
    Says the guy who can't offer another that is more likely (there isn't. KSU will bend the knee to the players and then settle that case out of court.) Also says the guy who quits arguments when he says something incredibly stupid.

    Take a debate class before spewing idiotic opinions, it would help you not come off as incredibly stupid.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantheman4248 View Post
    Says the guy who can't offer another that is more likely (there isn't. KSU will bend the knee to the players and then settle that case out of court.) Also says the guy who quits arguments when he says something incredibly stupid.

    Take a debate class before spewing idiotic opinions, it would help you not come off as incredibly stupid.
    The likeliest scenario is "KSU does not expel the student"

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg View Post
    I say supposedly because I can't find what the tweet says, but if there was no threat made I don't see grounds for expulsion. The first amendment guarantees your right to be an utter revolting shit if you want to be one..
    Slight correction. Courts have continued to say First amendment means government cannot limit your speech. BUT, that doesn't mean you have 'unlimited' freedom of speech. You can legally fired for something you say.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech

    Coach34 .. "We're not hiring the ****ing Pirate at Miss State. GTFO"


  19. #59
    Senior Member maroonmania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Really Clark? View Post
    No they didn?t, he was dismissed from the baseball team, not the school and you will find that the Supreme Court has consistently struck down expelling students for racist speech on college campuses unless it incites immediate violence. Schools who have tried to write student code of conduct rules trying to eliminate free speech in some form have not fared well in the courts because just being offensive to a group of people for various reasons but the biggest is they all leave too much gray area for free speech rights to be subverted...and it?s a broad spectrum of right, left, race, culture, etc. speech that the Supreme Court has struck down from public universities attempting to restrict speech. Including cases about racist speech. And the ACLU, who most people identify as strictly as defending left side ideology the vast majority of the time, have also fought hard for right wing extremist speech as well on college campuses. Read a bunch of these decisions guys, I?m not saying that KSU won?t expell him, I?m saying they will lose and lose badly in this case, if he sues them. The Supreme Court has allowed much stronger language, much stronger racists remarks, much harsher bigotry ideals and speech at Universities. Faculty and students alike have said, organized, published, etc. much much worse and been found to have had their rights infringed upon by public universities who expell/fire them for such speech.
    Well, there is one for you. NCAA allows Justin Fields to transfer without sitting out on the basis of the actions of one GA student who the U of GA is forced to keep enrolled. I really thought he had been dismissed from school.

  20. #60
    Senior Member starkvegasdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiscuitEater View Post
    Slight correction. Courts have continued to say First amendment means government cannot limit your speech. BUT, that doesn't mean you have 'unlimited' freedom of speech. You can legally fired for something you say.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech

    I see getting fired because you can be deemed representing your company. This is a student only. He does not work for the university. He is paying the university for a service. He is a customer of the university. Be like Walmart refusing to sell something to somebody because of a tweet they made.

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