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Thread: KSU football team refusing to practice or play

  1. #101
    Senior Member Lord McBuckethead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    This! Best thing I've read in a long time. This is the spoiled,entitled group that preaches diversity but only if you think like they do. They get offended at the drop of a hat and throw temper tantrums.
    Everyone needs to be on notice, blatant racist crap will not be tolerated anymore. Welcome to "what should have been" the 1970s. Why throw digital gasoline on the situation.
    Downvotes_Hype

  2. #102
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead View Post
    Everyone needs to be on notice, blatant racist crap will not be tolerated anymore. Welcome to "what should have been" the 1970s. Why throw digital gasoline on the situation.
    Yes,and that should go for every race,creed,orientation,political views, etc...it can't be one sided.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Obviously.

    And once again, Kansas State is a public university.

    No one here saying this kid shouldn't be expelled is advocating that his views are positive or good.
    I don’t think he should be expelled, but Kansas State is well within their rights to do so if they do not want those viewpoints associated with their university. Free speech doesn’t protect him from being expelled.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Really Clark?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    I don?t think he should be expelled, but Kansas State is well within their rights to do so if they do not want those viewpoints associated with their university. Free speech doesn?t protect him from being expelled.
    Actually according to the Supreme Court, in numerous occasions over the decades, it most certainly does mean his free speech is protected from expulsion. It does happen but the courts consistently rule against public universities, they are an extension of the government. Just like they protect professors who make inflammatory statements that bring outrage to the offended parties and the university may even issue a statement of how they condemn the professors remarks, they also clearly claim that it?s their right to free speech and they cannot remove that professor due to their rights. You can?t wrap yourself in free speech blanket in that case to say your hands are tied and then try to censor free speech in another case, especially in cases where they are both racist type remarks. It absolutely has to be covered under the same umbrella or else you do not have free speech for all citizens, you are then weighing speech you don?t like to have heavier consequences. No matter which side of the argument you fall on it has to be protected at public universities or the constitution has to change.
    Last edited by Really Clark?; 06-29-2020 at 11:48 AM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Yes,and that should go for every race,creed,orientation,political views, etc...it can't be one sided.
    That would be ideal but I don't know if that will ever be reality. I mean the first amendment was created when black people literally had zero rights in this country and were enslaved. The whole concept seems dated at this point, although I realize its often a feel good story to reference back to what the founding fathers wanted. Its been one sided in the opposite direction for almost the entirety of our country's existence. I won't lose sleep over a dickhead getting expelled for seeking attention and saying something horrible. That's simply what it is, and not a complete destruction of some great, unwavering concept this country was founded on.

    Not directly a response to just you CC but more just a general response to the thread.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chef dixon View Post
    That would be ideal but I don't know if that will ever be reality. I mean the first amendment was created when black people literally had zero rights in this country and were enslaved. The whole concept seems dated at this point, although I realize its often a feel good story to reference back to what the founding fathers wanted. Its been one sided in the opposite direction for almost the entirety of our country's existence. I won't lose sleep over a dickhead getting expelled for seeking attention and saying something horrible. That's simply what it is, and not a complete destruction of some great, unwavering concept this country was founded on.

    Not directly a response to just you CC but more just a general response to the thread.
    I completely understand what you're saying. I've just been negotiating deals for so long that there has to be some kind of middle ground where both parties have to make concessions or you're screwed. Once folks start drawing lines in the sand nothing gets done or bad stuff happens. I fear we are headed down a bad path with 2 sides and no middle.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    I completely understand what you're saying. I've just been negotiating deals for so long that there has to be some kind of middle ground where both parties have to make concessions or you're screwed. Once folks start drawing lines in the sand nothing gets done or bad stuff happens. I fear we are headed down a bad path with 2 sides and no middle.
    Yep.

    And as the ideology moves more extreme in either direction, the consequences are greater when the pendulum swings back the other way. That can be a destructive path...it is certainly divisive.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead View Post
    You are free to say whatever you want, as long as you are ready to face the consequences. Free doesn't mean without consequences.
    A statement like that is despicable. Not really sure what their code of conduct covers, but it could mean expulsion.
    Free speech, legally, literally means without consequences from any govt entity as long as the speech is protected, which this students speech was (hate speech is protected). Any code of conduct that allows expulsion as a response to free speech is unlawful. A code of conduct doesn't trump the first amendment.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarius View Post
    I don’t think he should be expelled, but Kansas State is well within their rights to do so if they do not want those viewpoints associated with their university. Free speech doesn’t protect him from being expelled.
    It absolutely does. This has been litigated over and over. KSU cannot lawfully expel a student for this.

  10. #110
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    I completely understand what you're saying. I've just been negotiating deals for so long that there has to be some kind of middle ground where both parties have to make concessions or you're screwed. Once folks start drawing lines in the sand nothing gets done or bad stuff happens. I fear we are headed down a bad path with 2 sides and no middle.
    I think it's one of those things that will self-regulate over time. Right now, people are swept up in the ability for people to have a collective voice and push for some things that make a difference. Within that are some things that we will look back at as mistakes.
    We have had other periods like this in the past; the 1950s hunt for Commies is one; our rush to condemn and ruin careers of people who spoke out against war in Iraq is another. If you think about it, this power to amplify a collective voice the way it can be via social media is still relatively new. And unfortunately, we have a global scale learning curve happening as how best to deal with it, regulate it if needed, and weed out the societal flaws.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  11. #111
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I think it's one of those things that will self-regulate over time. Right now, people are swept up in the ability for people to have a collective voice and push for some things that make a difference. Within that are some things that we will look back at as mistakes.
    We have had other periods like this in the past; the 1950s hunt for Commies is one; our rush to condemn and ruin careers of people who spoke out against war in Iraq is another. If you think about it, this power to amplify a collective voice the way it can be via social media is still relatively new. And unfortunately, we have a global scale learning curve happening as how best to deal with it, regulate it if needed, and weed out the societal flaws.
    I hope you're right but with the 24/7 news cycle and the spin of both sides fanning the flames the divide in our country is greater than its been in my lifetime and continuing to grow. Nobody seems to believe in compromise anymore and there is no dialogue, only monologue.

  12. #112
    Senior Member BrunswickDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    I hope you're right but with the 24/7 news cycle and the spin of both sides fanning the flames the divide in our country is greater than its been in my lifetime and continuing to grow. Nobody seems to believe in compromise anymore and there is no dialogue, only monologue.
    I think the lack of compromise comes straight from our leadership. I think the last D/R real compromise was when Clinton signed the Balanced Budget Act in 1997. Placing our politics on war footing has killed the system. For our general society to get back to compromise, we are going to have to do it from the top first.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

  13. #113
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg View Post
    I think the lack of compromise comes straight from our leadership. I think the last D/R real compromise was when Clinton signed the Balanced Budget Act in 1997. Placing our politics on war footing has killed the system. For our general society to get back to compromise, we are going to have to do it from the top first.
    That would help for sure.

  14. #114
    Senior Member BB30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dantheman4248 View Post
    There are a lot of things bad with our society. Democratic (ab)use of free speech is low on the totem pole.
    When you cancel someone they will find groups of like minded individuals somewhere at some point and that is when things can turn dangerous. When you are surrounded by people that think just like you without input from outside sources things can turn violent pretty quickly. Once group think takes over there isn't a lot of turning back.

    So keep cancelling but you are creating a much worse problem than some despicable and dirty tweets that ultimately don't harm anyone physically. Call them out for what they said, fine but telling them they now no longer have a voice and they will go find somewhere where they can have a voice.

    Reasoning with someone instead of cancelling is always the better option IMO. Unfortunately, the left doesn't see it that way and I am afraid we have started going to far down this trail to turn back. I think you could potentially start seeing some violence with far right and left groups in the future and that will suck for everyone involved. Because groups don't care what side your on once the sh** starts. If you end up caught in the middle they won't care.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Social media has a good chance of being the fall of civilization
    Shotgun I have been saying this verbatim for years. It is uncanny the number of shitstorms I have watched develop as a result of social media. From loss of jobs to loss of significant others and everything else imaginable that would be considered very unpleasant and distracting. There is a very good reason such things will never happen to me. No social media of any kind. Ever. I just watch and smirk and sigh.

  16. #116
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chef dixon View Post
    That would be ideal but I don't know if that will ever be reality. I mean the first amendment was created when black people literally had zero rights in this country and were enslaved. The whole concept seems dated at this point, although I realize its often a feel good story to reference back to what the founding fathers wanted. Its been one sided in the opposite direction for almost the entirety of our country's existence. I won't lose sleep over a dickhead getting expelled for seeking attention and saying something horrible. That's simply what it is, and not a complete destruction of some great, unwavering concept this country was founded on.

    Not directly a response to just you CC but more just a general response to the thread.
    Are you arguing that the concept of free speech is dated and it's no big deal if it's done away with?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Are you arguing that the concept of free speech is dated and it's no big deal if it's done away with?
    I mean you can interpret it any way you want I suppose. My point was just that free speech has never been applied equally in this country since its origin. The only difference now is that a lot of people who were bullet proof for so long behind that amendment are having to get uncomfortable.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by chef dixon View Post
    I mean you can interpret it any way you want I suppose. My point was just that free speech has never been applied equally in this country since its origin. The only difference now is that a lot of people who were bullet proof for so long behind that amendment are having to get uncomfortable.
    So you get satisfaction from American having their rights infringed? I’m not denigrating you for that viewpoint, but I think we need to all be honest with what our motivations are.
    Last edited by turkish; 06-29-2020 at 05:42 PM.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    So you get satisfaction from American having their rights infringed? I’m not denigrating you for that viewpoint, but I think we need to all be honest with what our motivations are.
    Not sure I ever looked at it that way, but I wouldn't say satisfaction. Kind of a blanket statement about general rights infringement, no? I guess you could say Jaden McNeil gets satisfaction from George Floyd's rights being infringed upon. I don't really have any motivations either, just observations and opinion for discussion. Whatever happens in this situation is out of my control. I realize most people here won't agree with me and will defend the constitution to death, but I think there's a lot of gray area beyond a document that was signed in the 1700s.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Social media has a good chance of being the fall of civilization
    Along with 24-hour news networks, of both the right and left type. Report the news, but stay away from "opinions".

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