Where will you draw the line....

[Commercecomet24]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

Just to be clear I wasn't referring to anything about the confederate flag or the confederacy, I was speaking strictly in terms of American Flag and American hero's not the confederacy at all. You're a good dude Beardo.

[BeardoMSU]

Just to be clear I wasn't referring to anything about the confederate flag or the confederacy, I was speaking strictly in terms of American Flag and American hero's not the confederacy at all. You're a good dude Beardo.

Oh, of course, CC. I didn't do a very good job of clearly directing my comment. My post was referring to people who conflate the issue of wanting to take down Confederate imagery and the future worry that American imagery is next (not specifically directed to your comment).

Now, you're correct with the current issue of mobs destroying/vandalizing statues; its horrible, and at this point appears to be a movement. I saw how Ulysses S. Grant's statue was toppled last night...the man who trounced the Confederacy...these people are just going after every statue of a white man from the 17/1800s with rage, not logic. Now THIS absolutely is a problem, but its a separate movement from the Confederate flag/statue one. People have been debating the Confederate flag, MS flag, confederate statues, imagery, etc. for decades; literal decades...this is not something that just recently popped up. One could argue the same specifically for the Columbus statues, as various groups have been going after him for decades as well (one of my favorite episodes of the Sopranos actually focuses on this, lol). Now, given the current turmoil, its easy to conflate the 2 things, but they are still separate debates.

And of course I've seen No Country...

[starkvegasdawg]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

Sadly, I think CC is right. Once every vestige of the old South has been removed they will still not be happy and will find something else to be offended over. And I am afraid if will be our American flag. While I 100% agree with your stance of what our flag stands for, not all do. What is not debatable at all is that everything people despise the confederate flag for due to the things that happened under it, also all happened under the American flag.

Don't misconstrue the following as support for slavery and racist behavior. Just hear me out. The confederacy only existed for four years. It never had time to evolve and change. When it did exist, there were lots of people, in the North and South, that either supported slavery or at least tolerated it as a way of life back then. Hell, even Lincoln is quoted as saying he wasn't concerned about it. His main concern was preserving the union at any cost. I'm paraphrasing here but he said if he could preserve the union by freeing all the slaves he would. If he could do it freeing some of them he would. But if he could do if freeing nine of them he also would do that. Also during that time the Corwin amendment was proposed which would make slavery a constitutionally protected institution if the South would rejoin the union and end the war. And just as there were people on both sides that were pro slavery, there were those in the South, too, that opposed slavery. So the seeds to ending it already existed in the South back then. It's just they never had time to sprout since they lost the war and ceased to exist as a country. How would things look today had the South one? I have no idea, but I am pretty sure slavery would have ended long ago regardless. Between more people waking up to the horror that it was and technological advances making it more productive to use machinery instead of human labor it would have ended. But had America lost a war that caused us to cease to exist as a nation in 1865 what would the legacy be of our flag from 1776-1865 and what happened under it? Is it any different than what happened under the confederate flag from 1861-1865? The US has had an extra 155 years to improve.

[starkvegasdawg]

I don't have any. I sold my entire arsenal along with the ammo to some guy they called El Gato. That must have been his fraternity nickname because I heard them say something about Zetas. Just putting that out there so nobody wastes their time searching my house or my vehicle.

He must really like guns. I sold all mine to the same guy.

[chef dixon]

The world changes. And it's changing away from what a lot of people were comfortable in because it worked for them. What you think is right for you may be complete opposite of someone else. The world is so much bigger than any one persons view. The sooner you accept that and focus more on yourself and the ones close to you, the easier and more enjoyable life will be going forward.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just wanted to make sure this was in the discussion. Basically a former Green Beret was the person who came up with the idea of kneeling. Kapernick was doing the same thing that Marshawn Lynch had done for a long time, sit on the bench during the National Anthem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...-kneeling/amp/

[Leroy Jenkins]

"Cheese Nips" you are on notice.

[BeardoMSU]

"Cheese Nips" you are on notice.

The fact they are considered "pies" is what's offensive**

[Commercecomet24]

Oh, of course, CC. I didn't do a very good job of clearly directing my comment. My post was referring to people who conflate the issue of wanting to take down Confederate imagery and the future worry that American imagery is next (not specifically directed to your comment).

Now, you're correct with the current issue of mobs destroying/vandalizing statues; its horrible, and at this point appears to be a movement. I saw how Ulysses S. Grant's statue was toppled last night...the man who trounced the Confederacy...these people are just going after every statue of a white man from the 17/1800s with rage, not logic. Now THIS absolutely is a problem, but its a separate movement from the Confederate flag/statue one. People have been debating the Confederate flag, MS flag, confederate statues, imagery, etc. for decades; literal decades...this is not something that just recently popped up. One could argue the same specifically for the Columbus statues, as various groups have been going after him for decades as well (one of my favorite episodes of the Sopranos actually focuses on this, lol). Now, given the current turmoil, its easy to conflate the 2 things, but they are still separate debates.

And of course I've seen No Country...

Agreed they are definitely separate issues. I love this country and what it stands for and I'm hoping and praying our kids and grandkids can have peace and happiness. So much hate out there right now that I worry about that future. Much respect for you, brother!

ETA No country is one of my favorites lot of deep meaning outside of all the violence. Especially Ed Toms dream.

[DownwardDawg]

Agreed they are definitely separate issues. I love this country and what it stands for and I'm hoping and praying our kids and grandkids can have peace and happiness. So much hate out there right now that I worry about that future. Much respect for you, brother!

ETA No country is one of my favorites lot of deep meaning outside of all the violence. Especially Ed Toms dream.

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

[Todd4State]

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

YES! And people need to learn how to forgive and move on on both sides of every issue.

[R2Dawg]

YES! And people need to learn how to forgive and move on on both sides of every issue.

Yep this is a key to recovering from any injustices or wrongs. Unfortunately, so many will not forgive and reconcile. The hatred has been amped up for the past 10 years or so and now it is even encouraged. Only way out of this is the forgive, repent and move on.

BTW, most people's issue is not to repent to other people for a wrong they didn't commit but to God first whom they have sinned against. Guilt is good when you have done wrong but false guilt when there is no wrong you have committed is evil.

[Cowbell]

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

Amen brother!

[Commercecomet24]

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

Same here brother!

[Saltydog]

I understand both sides of the flag issue and it's really not a big deal to me but where does this insanity end? It won't stop until all vestiges of the old south are completely gone. What's next, getting rid of antebellum homes? Let's get rid of Lee Hall. Let's get rid of KFC. Let's burn Oxford to the ground. Oh wait, that one I'm good with.

[R2Dawg]

I understand both sides of the flag issue and it's really not a big deal to me but where does this insanity end? It won't stop until all vestiges of the old south are completely gone. What's next, getting rid of antebellum homes? Let's get rid of Lee Hall. Let's get rid of KFC. Let's burn Oxford to the ground. Oh wait, that one I'm good with.

You are so right. They have torn down USGrant statues now because someone heard a rumor that he had a slave once. Our library will be next target. I am trusting Keenum will not allow MSU campus to get out of control for MSU's sake and I have family on campus.

[PMDawg]

I apologize if this gets political but I would ask that we control the debating here and keep it mature.

Where do you draw the line? At what point in all this craziness will you decide to quit sports? Kneeling? Paid college players? Mascots changed? Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far.

Oh it's already crossed for me. I'm out. Pros will be easy. College is gonna hurt. If CFB doesn't have a season this year, there will be millions who never tune in again, I would wager. I plan to be in that number either way. My money is staying with me from now on.

[Uncivilengineer]

Oh it's already crossed for me. I'm out. Pros will be easy. College is gonna hurt. If CFB doesn't have a season this year, there will be millions who never tune in again, I would wager. I plan to be in that number either way. My money is staying with me from now on.

I am right there with you. I pretty much quit the Pros a couple of years ago. Drew Brees' spineless act sealed the deal for me.

The start of College football this season will be a sh1t-show unlike this country has ever seen. That is if they even play it with the Rona still out there.
I will not support professional athletes or student athletes that hate me. The reaction to the Leach tweet by the athletes, media and our athletic director has me right on the edge. Once my University decides to kneel or kiss the ass of the terrorist organization known as Black Lives Matter, I will be done. And they will do it, no way they won't. The entire country has lost its damn mind and I won't support a damn bit of it.

[R2Dawg]

I am right there with you. I pretty much quit the Pros a couple of years ago. Drew Brees' spineless act sealed the deal for me.

The start of College football this season will be a sh1t-show unlike this country has ever seen. That is if they even play it with the Rona still out there.
I will not support professional athletes or student athletes that hate me. The reaction to the Leach tweet by the athletes, media and our athletic director has me right on the edge. Once my University decides to kneel or kiss the ass of the terrorist organization known as Black Lives Matter, I will be done. And they will do it, no way they won't. The entire country has lost its damn mind and I won't support a damn bit of it.

A lot and I mean a lot of people feel the same way, they are just not rioting in the streets about it.

[Quaoarsking]

I am right there with you. I pretty much quit the Pros a couple of years ago. Drew Brees' spineless act sealed the deal for me.

The start of College football this season will be a sh1t-show unlike this country has ever seen. That is if they even play it with the Rona still out there.
I will not support professional athletes or student athletes that hate me. The reaction to the Leach tweet by the athletes, media and our athletic director has me right on the edge. Once my University decides to kneel or kiss the ass of the terrorist organization known as Black Lives Matter, I will be done. And they will do it, no way they won't. The entire country has lost its damn mind and I won't support a damn bit of it.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but:

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