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Thread: Where will you draw the line....

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    You misunderstand, when I refer to the 1960s as being the start of the US moral decide I am not talking about the Civil Rights movement but of moral decline due to the US Supreme court legalizing abortions, removing prayer from school, not teaching the bible in school, not reciting the pledge of allegiance to the US, rise in mother out of wedlock, rampant drug use and addiction, same sex unions, and the transgendered movement. The decline of the US has nothing to do with race but the condition of the human soul.

    As Timothy 3:105 states: "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!"

    Sorry I can't take people who portray themselves as devout Christians while simultaneously spreading messages of intolerance and indifference to God's creation seriously. It just doesn't add up. It is in direct opposition to the Word of God. If you know the Bible so well you should meditate and reflect on it more. Especially:

    Jeremiah 22:13 "Woe to him who builds his house by unrighteousness, and his upper rooms by injustice, who makes his neighbor serve him for nothing and does not give him his wages."

    Jeremiah 5:28-29 "There is no limit to their evil deeds. They do not give orphans their rights or show justice to the oppressed. But I, the LORD, will punish them for these things; I will take revenge on this nation."

    James 2:9 "But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law."

    Genesis 1:27 "So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them."

    Romans 2:5 "But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."

    1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

    Galatians 6:7 "Don't be misled -- you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant."
    Last edited by natchez87; 06-24-2020 at 04:15 AM.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg28 View Post
    God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.
    100%. Some people have turned the American flag into an idol god. Worshipping it instead of treating their fellow human beings with decency and respect as God instructed them to. It's mostly "evangelical Christians" who do this which is.... interesting.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by natchez87 View Post
    100%. Some people have turned the American flag into an idol god. Worshipping it instead of treating their fellow human beings with decency and respect as God instructed them to. It's mostly "evangelical Christians" who do this which is.... interesting.
    I would like to see some facts to back that up, because I don't believe that for a minute. Being a Christian goes against everything you just stated(treating people bad and worshipping idols). And if you are a true Christian, God is first in your life(not a flag, even though you can be very patriotic) and you treat all people with the respect they deserve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg28 View Post
    God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.
    Let's not confuse patriotism with idolatry. There may be a fine line there but I'm am very patriotic and proud and thankful to live in this country. Thank goodness we had great men and true patriots who fought to keep this country safe and free. But I'm will to bet as a lot military people say(as I've heard it before): God, country, family is the order they keep things. Now as a non-military man,such as myself, I may switch the last two. But a true Christian always puts God first.

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    The iconic John C Calhoun statue in the middle of Charleston has been taken down in the middle of the night by city officials.
    7th Vice President of the United States.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdawg View Post
    Let's not confuse patriotism with idolatry. There may be a fine line there but I'm am very patriotic and proud and thankful to live in this country. Thank goodness we had great men and true patriots who fought to keep this country safe and free. But I'm will to bet as a lot military people say(as I've heard it before): God, country, family is the order they keep things. Now as a non-military man,such as myself, I may switch the last two. But a true Christian always puts God first.
    Only a simple man with no family puts his country before his family.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex54 View Post
    The iconic John C Calhoun statue in the middle of Charleston has been taken down in the middle of the night by city officials.
    7th Vice President of the United States.
    Not as iconic as you think

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    Quote Originally Posted by natchez87 View Post
    Sorry I can't take people who portray themselves as devout Christians while simultaneously spreading messages of intolerance and indifference to God's creation seriously. It just doesn't add up. It is in direct opposition to the Word of God. If you know the Bible so well you should meditate and reflect on it more. Especially:

    Jeremiah 22:13 "Woe to him who builds his house by unrighteousness, and his upper rooms by injustice, who makes his neighbor serve him for nothing and does not give him his wages."

    Jeremiah 5:28-29 "There is no limit to their evil deeds. They do not give orphans their rights or show justice to the oppressed. But I, the LORD, will punish them for these things; I will take revenge on this nation."

    James 2:9 "But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law."

    Genesis 1:27 "So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them."

    Romans 2:5 "But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."

    1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

    Galatians 6:7 "Don't be misled -- you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant."
    Natchez, you lost me on this one.

    What in my message was intolerant? I have said nothing that is racist nor have I put down any particular group of people. The point of this particular thread was that God, in the history of the world has built up nations and torn some down to fulfill His will - His will not mine. This is not intolerant it is a fact, read the old testament.

    I am not favoring a particular set of people nor is my house unjust, I just simply provided scripture references that show what God has previously done as recorded in the Bible. Sorry if you have never read that.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg28 View Post
    Only a simple man with no family puts his country before his family.
    This is BS and thank goodness it is, because we have been dependent on a lot of people who have put their duty to country above their family and had their family share in their sacrifice.

    Also, you should think about some of the pictures of wives and children mourning the loss of their military husband/father and consider if you really think their husband/father was simple. Lots of crazy and offensive things have been typed on this board, but this one is up there at the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    The only bullshit is your purported knowledge of the bible.

    No one fully understands God or His ways and we can't from our limited view of Him, in this life, explain all the purposes He has when He either builds up a nation or pronounces judgement on another. If God is so neutral in national affairs how do you explain, yes this is old testament and regarding Israel, God directing Israel to annihilate groups of people - whole nations of men, women and children, when they took over the promised land - the land filled with milk an honey. That does not fit your description of God. You see him only as Holy and merciful, which He is, but He also demands justice and as illustrated in the old testament and He does use other nations to carry out His will! He will also, at a later time, punish the nation He used to deliver punishment on His behalf. Why? One reason (we don't know the others but scripture does tell us) is because that nation went above the severity of the punishment he wanted delivered. Example, when Israel went into exile, when the Babylonians defeated Israel, ~70 years later the Assyrians defeated the Babylonians. As scripture said, this was their punishment for being cruel to Israel. Read it for yourself.

    And in the New Testament, since you think the old does not apply, why does Good put a hook in the nose of the country up north (Russia) and their allies (China and others) to wage war against Israel in the book of Revelation? It is so he can cary out His anger on them and punish them - the battle of Armageddon! Read it for yourself!

    Regarding the US, we don't know all of the reasons why God prospered the US as much as He did. You portray the US from its inception as a cruel evil empire that is more evil than any other nation. Have you considered the good things the US has done since its beginnings? We evangelize the world, we give monetary and material (food) aid to most countries of the world, we defend other countries with our own citizens, we police the world to keep world peace, we educate the world, we adopt orphans from around the world, we are a melting pot of different nationalities in the US as we have been the beacon of freedom the world has admired and seeks. Does any other country have the number of immigrants each year for 150+ years the US has? NO! Yes, there are periodic migrations from a war torn country to one that is not in war but over the centuries where do people from other countries want to migrate to? The US!

    You see events purely from a human viewpoint and not trying to see it from God's. As Jesus told Peter when Peter rebuked Jesus for saying He was going up to Jerusalem to be abused by the elders and the chief priest, handed over to the gentiles and killed, Jesus told Him - Get behind me satan, You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.?

    Point being - God's ways are not our ways as His ways are higher than ours.
    Correct. NO one knows his ways.

    God is neutral on nations. He has a "Chosen PEOPLE", the Old Testament sons of Israel. But I'm not the one that is saying this blessing of that named group is was extended to other groups. You are. I said "We are not and never were God's Chosen Nation" Never were. Never will be. That Babylon, Assyria, Rome, and the ottomans defeated God's Chosen nation did not bestow upon them God's Favor. If you think that's the way it works, you should be a follower of the religion of those Nations.

    And you are worse than ISIS in reading The Revelation.

    I never said the US was evil or an evil empire. I said that the period in history the US was founded was not a very religious time.

    All those things are great things about the USA that the current administration is ending.

    You are trying to make your human viewpoint God's viewpoint. I'm reading what he said. God has one chosen nation. It's not the USA. God's Chosen people in the Old testament is Israel.

    Yes His ways are higher than ours. Why are you putting him in a box that says "USA only"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you said but it is not explicitly the flag but for what the flag stands for - goodness, security, hope, freedom, etc.
    And there is nothing wrong with a Gold Calf or the Staff of Moses. It's only when the People hold it in a higher position. That's when God gets upset.

    Same can be said about Freedom, Goodness, and Hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    Correct. NO one knows his ways.

    God is neutral on nations. He has a "Chosen PEOPLE", the Old Testament sons of Israel. But I'm not the one that is saying this blessing of that named group is was extended to other groups. You are. I said "We are not and never were God's Chosen Nation" Never were. Never will be. That Babylon, Assyria, Rome, and the ottomans defeated God's Chosen nation did not bestow upon them God's Favor. If you think that's the way it works, you should be a follower of the religion of those Nations.

    And you are worse than ISIS in reading The Revelation.

    I never said the US was evil or an evil empire. I said that the period in history the US was founded was not a very religious time.

    All those things are great things about the USA that the current administration is ending.

    You are trying to make your human viewpoint God's viewpoint. I'm reading what he said. God has one chosen nation. It's not the USA. God's Chosen people in the Old testament is Israel.

    Yes His ways are higher than ours. Why are you putting him in a box that says "USA only"?
    You are not reading my posts correctly as I have NEVER said that Blessings are for the USA only. I gave examples of several other nations being blessed throughout history as well (other posters objected and got mad that God blessed other nations for his purpose - like Babylon and Egypt. All I said was that the US was VERY blessed in order to become the leader of the free world. And yes, God did use Egypt to show His power and sovereignty, and he also used Babylon to punish Israel - that is fact as written in the bible. Sorry that you have never read ALL of His word, I say that because if you had, you would not be making some of your comments contrary to the facts.

    Proof?

    Regarding Egypt): Exodus 9:15-16 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

    When Babylon punished Israel: Isaiah 47 1:6: “Go down, sit in the dust, Virgin Daughter Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, queen city of the Babylonians. No more will you be called tender or delicate. Take millstones and grind flour; take off your veil. Lift up your skirts, bare your legs, and wade through the streams. Your nakedness will be exposed and your shame uncovered. I will take vengeance; I will spare no one.” Our Redeemer—the Lord Almighty is his name is the Holy One of Israel. “Sit in silence, go into darkness, queen city of the Babylonians; no more will you be called queen of kingdoms. I was angry with my people and desecrated my inheritance; I gave them into your hand, and you showed them no mercy.

    And Jeremiah 34:2 - "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Go to Zedekiah king of Judah and tell him, 'This is what the LORD says: I am about to give this city into the hands of the king of Babylon, and he will burn it down.

    When God punished Babolyn for punishing Israel: Isaiah 13:17-20: "The Lord says, “I am stirring up the Medes[a] to attack Babylon. They care nothing for silver and are not tempted by gold. With their bows and arrows they will kill the young men. They will show no mercy to babies and take no pity on children. Babylonia is the most beautiful kingdom of all; it is the pride of its people. But I, the Lord, will overthrow Babylon as I did Sodom and Gomorrah!"
    Last edited by Extendedcab; 06-24-2020 at 10:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    Natchez, you lost me on this one.

    What in my message was intolerant? I have said nothing that is racist nor have I put down any particular group of people. The point of this particular thread was that God, in the history of the world has built up nations and torn some down to fulfill His will - His will not mine. This is not intolerant it is a fact, read the old testament.

    I am not favoring a particular set of people nor is my house unjust, I just simply provided scripture references that show what God has previously done as recorded in the Bible. Sorry if you have never read that.
    Yeah, I was wondering if he had reading comprehension issues or something. I don’t remember intolerance to anyone in your posts at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg28 View Post
    Only a simple man with no family puts his country before his family.
    How the heck can you say that when people leave their families all the time to go defend this country. Thank God they did during the World Wars and today, too. I could make an argument that I might not have a family if it were not for these patriots. I have to disagree with every word of your post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson85 View Post
    This is BS and thank goodness it is, because we have been dependent on a lot of people who have put their duty to country above their family and had their family share in their sacrifice.

    Also, you should think about some of the pictures of wives and children mourning the loss of their military husband/father and consider if you really think their husband/father was simple. Lots of crazy and offensive things have been typed on this board, but this one is up there at the top.
    No doubt. Probably said better than I did. Have some rep.

    Edit: tried to comment on the rep but it messed up. Sorry
    Last edited by Bdawg; 06-24-2020 at 12:21 PM.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    You are not reading my posts correctly as I have NEVER said that Blessings are for the USA only. I gave examples of several other nations being blessed throughout history as well (other posters objected and got mad that God blessed other nations for his purpose - like Babylon and Egypt. All I said was that the US was VERY blessed in order to become the leader of the free world. And yes, God did use Egypt to show His power and sovereignty, and he also used Babylon to punish Israel - that is fact as written in the bible. Sorry that you have never read ALL of His word, I say that because if you had, you would not be making some of your comments contrary to the facts.

    Proof?

    Regarding Egypt): Exodus 9:15-16 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

    When Babylon punished Israel: Isaiah 47 1:6: ?Go down, sit in the dust, Virgin Daughter Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, queen city of the Babylonians. No more will you be called tender or delicate. Take millstones and grind flour; take off your veil. Lift up your skirts, bare your legs, and wade through the streams. Your nakedness will be exposed and your shame uncovered. I will take vengeance; I will spare no one.? Our Redeemer?the Lord Almighty is his name is the Holy One of Israel. ?Sit in silence, go into darkness, queen city of the Babylonians; no more will you be called queen of kingdoms. I was angry with my people and desecrated my inheritance; I gave them into your hand, and you showed them no mercy.

    And Jeremiah 34:2 - "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Go to Zedekiah king of Judah and tell him, 'This is what the LORD says: I am about to give this city into the hands of the king of Babylon, and he will burn it down.

    When God punished Babolyn for punishing Israel: Isaiah 13:17-20: "The Lord says, ?I am stirring up the Medes[a] to attack Babylon. They care nothing for silver and are not tempted by gold. With their bows and arrows they will kill the young men. They will show no mercy to babies and take no pity on children. Babylonia is the most beautiful kingdom of all; it is the pride of its people. But I, the Lord, will overthrow Babylon as I did Sodom and Gomorrah!"

    Holy shit.

    Please stop using the Bible like this. The bible does not support that God makes nations world powers. That is not the way He works. Israel was never a world power. And the Babylon that conquered Israel (per you to punish them) was not either.

    And the medes and Persians did care for silver and gold, but the did not care what god you worshiped.



    In Exodus, God, via Moses, was talking to a person, not Egypt. God is telling the person, Ahmose I, that he selected him as Pharaoh for this purpose. You seem to be advocating God raised up and blessed Egypt. This is hard to justify. Here is your timeline. Egypt was raised up to become a world power by God in 3100 BC. It remind a world power until about 1069 BC. Meanwhile, while God was Blessing Egypt, in the about 2000 BC God was telling Abraham and Israel that they were "God's Chosen People". Babylon was at best a regional power and never really a world power.

    Again. You claimed God Blessed other nations, All I see is God either rewarding or punishing his people. A stick is not blessed when used for discipline. It's a stick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    Holy shit.

    Please stop using the Bible like this. The bible does not support that God makes nations world powers. That is not the way He works. Israel was never a world power. And the Babylon that conquered Israel (per you to punish them) was not either.

    And the medes and Persians did care for silver and gold, but the did not care what god you worshiped.



    In Exodus, God, via Moses, was talking to a person, not Egypt. God is telling the person, Ahmose I, that he selected him as Pharaoh for this purpose. You seem to be advocating God raised up and blessed Egypt. This is hard to justify. Here is your timeline. Egypt was raised up to become a world power by God in 3100 BC. It remind a world power until about 1069 BC. Meanwhile, while God was Blessing Egypt, in the about 2000 BC God was telling Abraham and Israel that they were "God's Chosen People". Babylon was at best a regional power and never really a world power.

    Again. You claimed God Blessed other nations, All I see is God either rewarding or punishing his people. A stick is not blessed when used for discipline. It's a stick.

    You can't read, I submitted for your review specific scriptures and you ignore them because they do not match your limited, in a box God, you have envisioned. I put no limits on God as He will do what pleases Him. I did not say they, Egypt and Babylon, were world powers those are your words, I said, actually scripture says, they were built up to the point where God used them to implement His will.

    Let me ask you this, did God bless the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, before Israel defeated them when they inherited the Promised Land? Of course he did, there are numerous scripture references where the Promised land is called a land flowing with milk and honey. God also said that the land he was giving them was —"a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied." Does that sound like a rod was applied to these nations before Israel moved in? No, they were blessed for the sake of Israel. Israel punished these nations, at God's command, for the idolatry and sacrificing their children to pagan gods.

    You do not know the bible! You only think you do! Please read it from front to back like you would any other book.

    You can either accept scripture or you can reject it - your choice. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    You can't read, I submitted for your review specific scriptures and you ignore them because they do not match your limited, in a box God, you have envisioned. I put no limits on God as He will do what pleases Him. I did not say they, Egypt and Babylon, were world powers those are your words, I said, actually scripture says, they were built up to the point where God used them to implement His will.

    Let me ask you this, did God bless the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, before Israel defeated them when they inherited the Promised Land? Of course he did, there are numerous scripture references where the Promised land is called a land flowing with milk and honey. God also said that the land he was giving them was ?"a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant?then when you eat and are satisfied." Does that sound like a rod was applied to these nations before Israel moved in? No, they were blessed for the sake of Israel. Israel punished these nations, at God's command, for the idolatry and sacrificing their children to pagan gods.

    You do not know the bible! You only think you do! Please read it from front to back like you would any other book.

    You can either accept scripture or you can reject it - your choice. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!
    No. I'm reading what you said and how you compared the US to Egypt and Babylon.

    No God did not "bless the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites" He blessed the land of Jacob and Abraham, the land of his Chosen People. But he did not bless it enough to allow the sons of Jacob to live there. They had to move to Egypt.

    I'm not the one twisting it into some sort of pat on the back due to the random luck of where I was born.

    I have read the Bible. But I also understand History and allegory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    No. I'm reading what you said and how you compared the US to Egypt and Babylon.

    No God did not "bless the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites" He blessed the land of Jacob and Abraham, the land of his Chosen People. But he did not bless it enough to allow the sons of Jacob to live there. They had to move to Egypt.

    I'm not the one twisting it into some sort of pat on the back due to the random luck of where I was born.

    I have read the Bible. But I also understand History and allegory.
    Yes, they had to move to Egypt to increase in number to be able to defeat the nations of the Promised Land - it took 400 years while they were enslaved and oppressed (that is why God displayed his powers to crush the Egyptians - they were cruel to Israel). But during the 400 years they were in Egypt, yes indeed the nations in the promised land were blessed so that the land would be good and filled with milk and honey for Israel when they occupied the land.

    Who said anything about random luck and patting one self on the back, I have said nothing about me personally - like I am rich, I live in a mansion, I have boats, planes and every other material luxury. All I have done is display scripture for your reading and comprehension.

    Now I see the issue here, you interpret the bible allegorically (your words not mine) and I interpret it literally except where it explicitly states otherwise. For example if scripture uses terms like "it is like", "it can be compared to", "these things are to be taken figuratively", etc, then we know the following passage it not literal but figurative speech in order to teach a lesson. The parables of Jesus are other examples.

    “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdawg View Post
    How the heck can you say that when people leave their families all the time to go defend this country. Thank God they did during the World Wars and today, too. I could make an argument that I might not have a family if it were not for these patriots. I have to disagree with every word of your post.
    That's your take. I do my actions for my family. Blacks were taken away from their families and stripped from Freedom in this country. Where it benefits you it's one sided.

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