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Thread: Where will you draw the line....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    To the left, facts do not apply, they just keep on in their insanity! You are doing a good job! Are you sure you are not Dantheman with new credentials?
    Man could you dig any deeper into the Bible to justify being against progress and social injustice? And I knew it would only be a matter of time before you made it political and not about faith. You act as if God is just sitting back and playing Risk. I'd encourage you to try and understand humans outside of your bubble on an individual level in as much detail as you have seemed to figure out the macro. It will take some discomfort on your part, but its possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    To the left, facts do not apply, they just keep on in their insanity! You are doing a good job! Are you sure you are not Dantheman with new credentials?
    I've been trying to figure out whether you or Rex is the poster formerly known as Coach007. Rex was in the lead, but you just passed him in turn four. Welcome back 007.
    "After dealing with Ole Miss for over a year," he said, "I've learned to expect their leadership to do and say things that the leadership at other Division I schools would never consider doing and to justify their actions by reminding themselves that "We're Ole Miss.""
    - Tom Mars, Esq. 4.9.18

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    Quote Originally Posted by chef dixon View Post
    Man could you dig any deeper into the Bible to justify being against progress and social injustice? And I knew it would only be a matter of time before you made it political and not about faith. You act as if God is just sitting back and playing Risk. I'd encourage you to try and understand humans outside of your bubble on an individual level in as much detail as you have seemed to figure out the macro. It will take some discomfort on your part, but its possible.
    Against progress? What is your definition of progress? I am not against progress if progress is the salvation of all mankind, the blessings of all people and nations, a spiritual revival, Godly laws and Godly rulers. If your definition is moral depravation, then it is not I that is against that "progress" it is God, read His word and find out for yourself. I challenge you to read the Bible front to back like you would any other book, then come back to this forum and provide your opinion of God then! I guarantee it will change, because you will change - from the inside out! I have not said anything in these posts that are even remotely racist, so what exactly are you against in my posts?

    And by the way, there is nothing political about showing in God's word that He rises up nations for a specific purposes and He also brings nations down for His purpose also. You misunderstand, God is not playing risk, He is directing the nations as He wills. Nothing surprises Him as His word says, He neither slumbers or sleeps and He declares the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). I also look at things from the macro view - in the end God wins (and the heirs to salvation - those who are born again), He puts ALL enemies under His foot - Satan, death and hell are all defeated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TUSK View Post
    Fact.... Rex is soooooo not "leftist"... While I may not be as convicted as he is RE: economic ideology, I do agree with him on a bunch of his shit...
    You will come around soon enough on the economics, I have faith! The myth of modern capitalism as a free market is crumbling by the day. Social and cultural control by The Fortune 500 is no better than social and cultural control by the politburo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by natchez87 View Post
    So it has been since the Civil Rights Movement, when Black people finally gained the minimum amount of respect and rights, that the nation started on a moral decline? ...... America had been on an epic tear of moral depravity since its inception. Treating people worse than dogs, ratifying it into your laws, and making torture and murder part of everyday life doesn't put you on the international list of "Moral Elites". You speak of Egypt and Rome as if America is exempt from God's judgement. Perhaps America has been given hundreds of years to make things right and after failing to do so, it is now time to be judged. God doesn't like anyone desecrating His creation. I'm sure He has been displeased with America since long before the 1960s.
    You misunderstand, when I refer to the 1960s as being the start of the US moral decide I am not talking about the Civil Rights movement but of moral decline due to the US Supreme court legalizing abortions, removing prayer from school, not teaching the bible in school, not reciting the pledge of allegiance to the US, rise in mother out of wedlock, rampant drug use and addiction, same sex unions, and the transgendered movement. The decline of the US has nothing to do with race but the condition of the human soul.

    As Timothy 3:105 states: "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by natchez87 View Post
    So it has been since the Civil Rights Movement, when Black people finally gained the minimum amount of respect and rights, that the nation started on a moral decline? ...... America had been on an epic tear of moral depravity since its inception. Treating people worse than dogs, ratifying it into your laws, and making torture and murder part of everyday life doesn't put you on the international list of "Moral Elites". You speak of Egypt and Rome as if America is exempt from God's judgement. Perhaps America has been given hundreds of years to make things right and after failing to do so, it is now time to be judged. God doesn't like anyone desecrating His creation. I'm sure He has been displeased with America since long before the 1960s.
    A lot of truth here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quaoarsking View Post
    Err, Rex54 isn't on "the left," not even close judging by his posts on the other threads.
    Rex doesn't really fit on the left right spectrum. As far as I can tell he mixes some "left wing" policies (authoritarianism, populism (although that's sort of becoming a right wing thing now), protectionism (also becoming right wing), anti-israel) with some "right wing" policies (closed borders (or close to it), judeo-christian based laws/rule, US first/nationalism) and maybe isolationism (which I think is pretty equally at home on either side, although with different flavors).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    Sorry for the length of this response.

    I never said the US was God's chosen nation, that honor belongs to Israel, the nation the Messiah (Jesus) came from. What I was sayin in so many words, I will be more direct here, is that God DOES BLESS the nation that repents of their sins, turns to Him and lives by His word. The examples I gave in my previous post clearly showed that God builds up nations (favor, honor, etc.) and He tears them down (judgement) depending on His purpose.

    Your original response to my post was that God does not honor the US flag (which I take to mean that God does not or has not honored or favored the US or any other nation for that matter, that He is neutral) is absolutely wrong. Again, depending on God's will, He builds up nations (aka blesses them, prospers them, multiplies them, honors them, etc.). Now He may build up a nation (evil one), so they can be brought down, to show His power to other nations - Egypt, Rome, etc which he used to discipline other nations - Israel in particular. But he also builds up nations that honor Him and those that do their best to acknowledge Him and live by His word.

    The US, read the original documents of this country and the letters of our founding fathers for reference (not that they were perfect, none are), was founded on Christian principles, our laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles (God's word) and our leaders (presidents, governors, etc.) and citizens at least feared God (gave Him reverence or at least due consideration), for the most part. We have been blessed above all other nations: we are the world military leader, we are a huge exporter of goods, we are a huge importer of goods, we evangelize the world, we have been until the past few years (downturn started in the 1960s) the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. But yet we are only (about) 1/20th or 5% of the worlds population. Wow, how does 5% of the world's population have so much impact on the rest of the world? God's word says that it is He that gives us power to obtain wealth and that if a nation will repent of their sins, turn from their evil ways and turn to God, He will heal their land! The apostle Paul even explained that the time order of God?s plan was not a sign of injustice or favoritism. ?There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism? (Romans 2:9-11, New Living Translation).

    God has definitely blessed the US (the flag if you will) and showered us with favor, grace and blessings, honor and prosperity but for how much longer is yet to be seen. It all depends on us as a people. Since the 1960's I do believe that the US is continually slipping in world status due to our moral decline. I also think we are today, at a tipping point, in wether we adhere to our original purpose or Christian ideals, or wether we succumb to the "worlds" no holes barred moral depravity. Scripture clearly states that is is a shame to even mention the things evil people do in secret but yet we are now expected to celebrate their depravity - our airwaves, internet, video and audio, is full of this crap. Are we next to be disciplined by God? I hope not, but I am very concerned for the future of the US.
    So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turfdawg67 View Post
    So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!
    At the time it was called "Providence". Seriously.

    That's actually exactly where Providence RI gets its name from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turfdawg67 View Post
    So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!
    Womp Womp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex54 View Post
    Womp Womp
    Your intellectual contributions to the board have been "Noble" Prize worthy.**

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    I never said anything about football teams (don't change the subject or sidestep the issue), just people and nations. You have obviously never read the book of Judges or 1 Kings and 2 Kings as there a MANY examples, if you have ears to hear and eyes that see, that GOD does indeed bless people and nations that follow him. This is not a prosperity Gospel fairytale, it is fact. But what you are confusing is prosperity to be ONLY MONEY meaning that you will become super rich. Biblical prosperity is simple. Biblical prosperity means being blessed by God. What does that mean? It means we will have what we need in this life, notice I did not say all that we want, but that we will have good success in our efforts, we will be without lack (essentials for life), he will give us favor, knowledge and understanding. Scripture also says "I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging for bread." Seed does not apply to just Israel, it also applies to Christians as we also enjoy the blessings of Abraham (see Galatians 3).

    I have read what the founding fathers think but I also have seen their beliefs in actions. You need to go to wallbuilders dot com and read the book called Original Intent. I bet you didn't know that the United States Capitol regularly served as a church building; a practice that began even before Congress officially moved into the building and it lasted until well after the Civil War. Now would an atheists or anti Christian group create that practice or endorse it? I think not!

    Also look at how the countries the US defeated during WWI and WWII were rebuilt. It was with US help and assistance. A lack of war is also a blessing, to have peace on every side, so Yes the US was/is blessed! But like I said in my previous post, in the 1960s the US started its slow decline in the world and it continues today - although at a faster rate.

    So has God blessed China, yes, but for what purpose only time will tell. From reading the book of Revelation, I think China will be one of the nations that contributes to an army of 200 million soldiers that will attack Israel during the great tribulation. God has in the past blessed nations, evil as they may be, to increase in power and strength to discipline a godly nation that is falling away from God. He did that to Israel several times and will again, read the book of Daniel and Revelation (the day of Jacob's trouble - the great tribulation).

    And just because God builds up an evil nation does not mean they get a free pass. Even Babylon was judged after God finished using them to punish Israel. China and other Godless countries (Russia) judgement is still to come.
    I'm not side stepping the issue, I'm telling you God care about the flag and a nation as much as he does who wins the Egg Bowl. To Him, both are just strange divisions of his people...

    I have read my Bible. And You must not know it at all. Judges and Kings are about Israel, you know God's Chose people. And that was the old covenant. We are under a new covenant, where Jesus came for all nations.

    And that prosperity gospel is bullshit. I'm not talking about "Only Money" I'm talking about how you are using it. It's at best ignorant of the world. There are and have been millions of good Christians that do not have "good success" and "want(ed) for essentials"... Including Paul himself... 1 Corinthians 4:11

    Stop saying that it all went down in the 1960's. Like I said, it is convenient that that decline of American greatness coincides with letting women and Brown people get Rights... This is at best ignorant...

    You need to learn about US history and church history.

    Per your distorted "prosperity gospel" God Blessed Pagans and unbelievers more, and for longer than he blessed his chosen...

    I cannot understand how China was used to punish anyone as they were an isolated nation from any Christian nation. I was talking about his blessing of China in China's Golden age before 1790. I guess they started sinning really bad about then....

    Or per your prosperity gospel, God blessing Rome and the Ottomans, while they killed Christians for centuries....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex54 View Post
    Womp Womp
    All truth. I'm shocked that a guy that's a fan of the Stars and Bars wouldn't agree. Shouldn't you be reading Breitbart and how BLM is a bad thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheltonChoked View Post
    I'm not side stepping the issue, I'm telling you God care about the flag and a nation as much as he does who wins the Egg Bowl. To Him, both are just strange divisions of his people...

    I have read my Bible. And You must not know it at all. Judges and Kings are about Israel, you know God's Chose people. And that was the old covenant. We are under a new covenant, where Jesus came for all nations.

    And that prosperity gospel is bullshit. I'm not talking about "Only Money" I'm talking about how you are using it. It's at best ignorant of the world. There are and have been millions of good Christians that do not have "good success" and "want(ed) for essentials"... Including Paul himself... 1 Corinthians 4:11

    Stop saying that it all went down in the 1960's. Like I said, it is convenient that that decline of American greatness coincides with letting women and Brown people get Rights... This is at best ignorant...

    You need to learn about US history and church history.

    Per your distorted "prosperity gospel" God Blessed Pagans and unbelievers more, and for longer than he blessed his chosen...

    I cannot understand how China was used to punish anyone as they were an isolated nation from any Christian nation. I was talking about his blessing of China in China's Golden age before 1790. I guess they started sinning really bad about then....

    Or per your prosperity gospel, God blessing Rome and the Ottomans, while they killed Christians for centuries....

    The only bullshit is your purported knowledge of the bible.

    No one fully understands God or His ways and we can't from our limited view of Him, in this life, explain all the purposes He has when He either builds up a nation or pronounces judgement on another. If God is so neutral in national affairs how do you explain, yes this is old testament and regarding Israel, God directing Israel to annihilate groups of people - whole nations of men, women and children, when they took over the promised land - the land filled with milk an honey. That does not fit your description of God. You see him only as Holy and merciful, which He is, but He also demands justice and as illustrated in the old testament and He does use other nations to carry out His will! He will also, at a later time, punish the nation He used to deliver punishment on His behalf. Why? One reason (we don't know the others but scripture does tell us) is because that nation went above the severity of the punishment he wanted delivered. Example, when Israel went into exile, when the Babylonians defeated Israel, ~70 years later the Assyrians defeated the Babylonians. As scripture said, this was their punishment for being cruel to Israel. Read it for yourself.

    And in the New Testament, since you think the old does not apply, why does Good put a hook in the nose of the country up north (Russia) and their allies (China and others) to wage war against Israel in the book of Revelation? It is so he can cary out His anger on them and punish them - the battle of Armageddon! Read it for yourself!

    Regarding the US, we don't know all of the reasons why God prospered the US as much as He did. You portray the US from its inception as a cruel evil empire that is more evil than any other nation. Have you considered the good things the US has done since its beginnings? We evangelize the world, we give monetary and material (food) aid to most countries of the world, we defend other countries with our own citizens, we police the world to keep world peace, we educate the world, we adopt orphans from around the world, we are a melting pot of different nationalities in the US as we have been the beacon of freedom the world has admired and seeks. Does any other country have the number of immigrants each year for 150+ years the US has? NO! Yes, there are periodic migrations from a war torn country to one that is not in war but over the centuries where do people from other countries want to migrate to? The US!

    You see events purely from a human viewpoint and not trying to see it from God's. As Jesus told Peter when Peter rebuked Jesus for saying He was going up to Jerusalem to be abused by the elders and the chief priest, handed over to the gentiles and killed, Jesus told Him - Get behind me satan, You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

    Point being - God's ways are not our ways as His ways are higher than ours.
    Last edited by Extendedcab; 06-23-2020 at 12:41 PM.

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    I'm not the arbiter of where the line is, but I know damn well the Confederate flag ain't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turfdawg67 View Post
    So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!
    Preach!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    The only bullshit is your purported knowledge of the bible.

    No one fully understands God or His ways and we can't from our limited view of Him, in this life, explain all the purposes He has when He either builds up a nation or pronounces judgement on another. If God is so neutral in national affairs how do you explain, yes this is old testament and regarding Israel, God directing Israel to annihilate groups of people - whole nations of men, women and children, when they took over the promised land - the land filled with milk an honey. That does not fit your description of God. You see him only as Holy and merciful, which He is, but He also demands justice and as illustrated in the old testament and He does use other nations to carry out His will! He will also, at a later time, punish the nation He used to deliver punishment on His behalf. Why? One reason (we don't know the others but scripture does tell us) is because that nation went above the severity of the punishment he wanted delivered. Example, when Israel went into exile, when the Babylonians defeated Israel, ~70 years later the Assyrians defeated the Babylonians. As scripture said, this was their punishment for being cruel to Israel. Read it for yourself.

    And in the New Testament, since you think the old does not apply, why does Good put a hook in the nose of the country up north (Russia) and their allies (China and others) to wage war against Israel in the book of Revelation? It is so he can cary out His anger on them and punish them - the battle of Armageddon! Read it for yourself!

    Regarding the US, we don't know all of the reasons why God prospered the US as much as He did. You portray the US from its inception as a cruel evil empire that is more evil than any other nation. Have you considered the good things the US has done since its beginnings? We evangelize the world, we give monetary and material (food) aid to most countries of the world, we defend other countries with our own citizens, we police the world to keep world peace, we educate the world, we adopt orphans from around the world, we are a melting pot of different nationalities in the US as we have been the beacon of freedom the world has admired and seeks. Does any other country have the number of immigrants each year for 150+ years the US has? NO! Yes, there are periodic migrations from a war torn country to one that is not in war but over the centuries where do people from other countries want to migrate to? The US!

    You see events purely from a human viewpoint and not trying to see it from God's. As Jesus told Peter when Peter rebuked Jesus for saying He was going up to Jerusalem to be abused by the elders and the chief priest, handed over to the gentiles and killed, Jesus told Him - Get behind me satan, You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

    Point being - God's ways are not our ways as His ways are higher than ours.
    God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldawg28 View Post
    God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.
    I agree with a lot of what you said but it is not explicitly the flag but for what the flag stands for - goodness, security, hope, freedom, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extendedcab View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you said but it is not explicitly the flag but for what the flag stands for - goodness, security, hope, freedom, etc.
    That's my point exactly. The flag can't stand for anything, it's the people that must do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeardoMSU View Post
    At the time it was called "Providence". Seriously.

    That's actually exactly where Providence RI gets its name from.
    Rhode Island's official name is "The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations". If I was ever taught that in school, it totally slipped my mind. Anyway, they're trying to change the name of the state removing "Plantations", perhaps the entire phrase "and Providence Plantations" (which would make more sense than just "The State of Rhode Island and Providence").

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/rhode-isl...y-connotations

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