So y'all ready to never see a regional at the Dude again?

[Liverpooldawg]

Among other things. The flag needs to go, 20 years ago. This better not get locked because it is absolutely sports related, MSU sports related. Given what the SEC said today the NCAA will absolutely follow. It's that simple, as long as that is our state flag, there will never be another baseball regional or Super at Dudy Noble Field.

[MaroonFlounder]

Among other things. The flag needs to go, 20 years ago. This better not get locked because it is absolutely sports related, MSU sports related. Given what the SEC said today the NCAA will absolutely follow. It's that simple, as long as that is our state flag, there will never be another baseball regional or Super at Dudy Noble Field.

There's been many regionals at Dudy Noble through the years WITH the current flag. What would be different?

For the record, I want the flag changed, and be done with this debate.

[msstatelp1]

There's been many regionals at Dudy Noble through the years WITH the current flag. What would be different?

For the record, I want the flag changed, and be done with this debate.

Former athletes and others are starting to call for no post season games of any kind in the state until the flag is gone. So far we've been allowed regionals and supers because they were "earned".

[BeardoMSU]

Night time super regionals are overrated anyways....it's much more satisfying being obviously stubborn with every breath while thumbing our noses to authority. But hey, we're showing that this is an effective strategy (160+ years in the making); it's not just for petulant children!***

[LC Dawg]

The flag is coming down soon but in typical Mississippi fashion we'll still look like dumbass hicks before it gets done. If we voted today I believe it would be voted out but our chickenshit "leaders" will drag their feet and make it look like we were forced to do it against our will.
This is just a start in regards to sports. No SEC championships won't hurt us and Ole Miss a lot but don't think the NCAA won't be far behind in banning any kind of postseason including baseball regionals. If the state digs in its heels it could lead to no SEC games in the state.
That's just sports related. Corporations are going to start doing less business with the state.
It's not 2001. It's not going away this time.

[BeardoMSU]

The flag is coming down soon but in typical Mississippi fashion we'll still look like dumbass hicks before it gets done. If we voted today I believe it would be voted out but our chickenshit "leaders" will drag their feet and make it look like we were forced to do it against our will.
This is just a start in regards to sports. No SEC championships won't hurt us and Ole Miss a lot but don't think the NCAA won't be far behind in banning any kind of postseason including baseball regionals. If the state digs in its heels it could lead to no SEC games in the state.
That's just sports related. Corporations are going to start doing less business with the state.
It's not 2001. It's not going away this time.

This^ Also, the people crying "lEt tHu pEopLe DecIde!" willfully forget that in 1894 the legislature "decided" to adopt the current flag, as an obvious antagonistic middle finger to those tyrants up north (how brave of them, lol)....sure did show 'em.

[R2Dawg]

This^ Also, the people crying "lEt tHu pEopLe DecIde!" willfully forget that in 1894 the legislature "decided" to adopt the current flag, as an obvious antagonistic middle finger to those tyrants up north (how brave of them, lol)....sure did show 'em.

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

[TrapGame]

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

One of the more interesting conspiracy theories about Lincoln's assassination is he favored a total rebuild of the South. He was going to fully restore the South. It was going to be a massive undertaking costing more money than the country had ever spent. But Lincoln thought it should be done. The generals were terrified of another war. They thought giving the South money to rebuild and restore would embolden them to secede once again. They wanted the South to remain poor and beaten.

[SheltonChoked]

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

You should have stopped at "I'm not a historian" Read what the the guys that wrote the Mississippi Constitution said about what their purpose was. It was not to "bring the country together" It was to prevent Blacks from being part of this country. That's why the statues were raised and the flag was chosen...

[Liverpooldawg]

You should have stopped at "I'm not a historian" Read what the the guys that wrote the Mississippi Constitution said about what their purpose was. It was not to "bring the country together" It was to prevent Blacks from being part of this country. That's why the statues were raised and the flag was chosen...

I agree about the flag, they made no bones about it. The statues are more complicated. You see very similar ones in the north. Those were to honor the soldiers who fought. Those in the South were too. Everybody seems to want to equate statues with history. They aren't the same thing. History shows that monuments and memorials always exist at the current generation's pleasure. You can erase statues, the history will still exist.

[smootness]

The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

This is not true at all. Almost all of those statues were erected solely to intimidate blacks or as a message that white supremacy wasn't going anywhere.

[Liverpooldawg]

This is not true at all. Almost all of those statues were erected solely to intimidate blacks or as a message that white supremacy wasn't going anywhere.

It's not that clear cut.

[BrunswickDawg]

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

States Rights was a component, but by no means was it even the dominant belief among the founders. The American experiment in governance was unlike anything else at the time, and to a degree still is. The intent was to strike a balance between the will of the people, the rights of the states, and centralized national government. The founders attempted to create a structure with the "states" the primary focus via the Articles of Confederation. It failed miserably and was abandoned after only 7 years. The Constitution delineates powers, but clearly places the Federal Government above the states via Article VI, and only cedes power to states as decided by the Federal Government. Of course - that was not without controversy, or without challenges by the States. Almost immediately, states tested the power of the Federal government - whether it was the Alien and Sedition Acts or the debates between early republicans vs. federalists, or Nullification. The Constitution binds the States and the Federal government together - but ultimately the Fed wins out most of the time because the Constitution is built to allow that to happen.

[Johnson85]

States Rights was a component, but by no means was it even the dominant belief among the founders. The American experiment in governance was unlike anything else at the time, and to a degree still is. The intent was to strike a balance between the will of the people, the rights of the states, and centralized national government. The founders attempted to create a structure with the "states" the primary focus via the Articles of Confederation. It failed miserably and was abandoned after only 7 years. The Constitution delineates powers, but clearly places the Federal Government above the states via Article VI, and only cedes power to states as decided by the Federal Government. Of course - that was not without controversy, or without challenges by the States. Almost immediately, states tested the power of the Federal government - whether it was the Alien and Sedition Acts or the debates between early republicans vs. federalists, or Nullification. The Constitution binds the States and the Federal government together - but ultimately the Fed wins out most of the time because the Constitution is built to allow that to happen.

This is incorrect. It took a while for the constitutional structure to be flipped from where powers were presumed to be held by the states unless specifically provided otherwise to one where powers were presumed to be held by the federal government unless specifically proscribed. While there was disagreement between the founders as to just how much power the national government should have, the ones that favored a limited federal government won, at least nominally. While the supreme court has more or less interpreted it out of the constitution, we still nominally have a federal government of limited, enumerated powers with every authority not specifically delegated to the federal government held by the states or people.

We still had a real distinction between intrastate and interstate commerce until the great depression. Until the series of obamacare cases, it was still a live question as to whether there were meaningful limits on the federal government's powers under the commerce clause besides those specifically proscribed in the bill of rights.

[mparkerfd20]

It passed by 64% before so don't be so damn stupid to think it wouldn't pass to stay again. Damn some of yall are some sure enough dumbasses.

It won't go to a vote this time because it would remain yet again. I can make arguments on both sides but changing a flag isn't going to change anything I'm afraid. I do like the designs of some of the alternatives I've seen tho.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm a conservative but the lack of leadership and initiative to make things happen is oddly slow and painful in Mississippi.

I'm always struck by the lack of ambition to make things happen. Why does Mississippi always have the follow? Why can't we ever take the initiative and be first?

Building the new Dudy Noble may be the first time in my life the Mississippians chose to be first in something

Think about it and name another.

[Liverpooldawg]

There's been many regionals at Dudy Noble through the years WITH the current flag. What would be different?

For the record, I want the flag changed, and be done with this debate.

Unreal

[LC Dawg]

It passed by 64% before so don't be so damn stupid to think it wouldn't pass to stay again. Damn some of yall are some sure enough dumbasses.

It won't go to a vote this time because it would remain yet again. I can make arguments on both sides but changing a flag isn't going to change anything I'm afraid. I do like the designs of some of the alternatives I've seen tho.

I hope it's changed without a vote but I'm curious what the vote would be. Every registered voter in Mississippi under the age of 35 couldn't vote in 2001. I think the flag would narrowly be voted out. Then our poor ass state would probably spend hundreds of millions of dollars challenging the results in court.

[Liverpooldawg]

For those that like to cite history as a reason to keep this flag, don't look at the history behind it. It was absolutely adopted BY THE LEGISLATURE to symbolize that reconstruction was over and the old guard was back in control. That is NOT debatable. They made no bones about it. It needs to go. I want to go to another regional at the Dude in my lifetime. If that flag remains, I never will.

[Liverpooldawg]

I hope it's changed without a vote but I'm curious what the vote would be. Every registered voter in Mississippi under the age of 35 couldn't vote in 2001. I think the flag would narrowly be voted out. Then our poor ass state would probably spend hundreds of millions of dollars challenging the results in court.

I suspect it would be retained by a roughly similar margin. For the record, obviously, I voted to do away with it the last time.