MSU People Need to Educate this Guy

[ShotgunDawg]

Another mis-understanding of post 1990 Mississippi State.

This is what we're fighting.

No mention of very few home games vs LSU for the better half of a century.

No mention of play Alabama every year when other schools did.

No mention of virtually no conference home games for the better half of a century.

Again, it appears that no matter how much we win, there still appears be a bad narrative.

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[Liverpooldawg]

It sounds like he has it right to me. Everything he said is factually correct except POSSIBLY with MSU being the hardest place to win in the West.

[ShotgunDawg]

It sounds like he has it right to me. Everything he said is factually correct except POSSIBLY with MSU being the hardest place to win in the West.

Yeah, it just comes with such little understanding of the context of MSU's history.

MSU is absolutely not the hardest place to win in the SEC West. The JUCO & local talent pool are something that Arkansas can't compete with & Ole Miss has trouble tapping into.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Yeah, it just comes with such little understanding of the context of MSU's history.

MSU is absolutely not the hardest place to win in the SEC West. The JUCO & local talent pool are something that Arkansas can't compete with & Ole Miss has trouble tapping into.

The last 100 years say it is. The last 10 years say it's not. The question is were those 10 years because of Mullen like this guy thinks or is it because of MSU advancing? Leach will go a long way in answering these questions.

[ShotgunDawg]

The last 100 years say it is. The last 10 years say it's not. The question is were those 10 years because of Mullen like this guy thinks or is it because of MSU advancing? Leach will go a long way in answering these questions.

That Croom hire is a real pimple on us that ruined what should be close to 30 years of sustained winning by now.

While the Sherrill era proved we could win, the Croom era wiped away any national remembrance of what Sherrill did.

While your right, I think it's pretty easy to reason your way to MSU not being the hardest place to win the SEC West, with the MS JUCO being the #1 reason.

[SheltonChoked]

That Croom hire is a real pimple on us that ruined what should be close to 30 years of sustained winning by now.

While the Sherrill era proved we could win, the Croom era wiped away any national remembrance of what Sherrill did.

While your right, I think it's pretty easy to reason your way to MSU not being the hardest place to win the SEC West, with the MS JUCO being the #1 reason.

While you can reason your way there, we are still, from the outside hampered by sharing a state with a known cheater, our close location to Alabama, and our history. That Ole Miss consistently has shown to flagrantly break the rules to win, makes MSU a harder place to win.

Arkansas has the entire state and a history of being able to recruit Texas.

The entry of Mizzou and A&M is what is relegated ARK to the lower tier in the SEC. It killed thier out of state recruiting base into Texas, Missouri, and Oklahoma.

But like Ifyouonlyknew said, that's recent history...

[MaroonFlounder]

That Croom hire is a real pimple on us that ruined what should be close to 30 years of sustained winning by now.

While the Sherrill era proved we could win, the Croom era wiped away any national remembrance of what Sherrill did.

Not taking up for Croom, but I don't think you understand the hot water we (MSU) were in with the NCAA (much of it thanks to the private investigators working for OM, and the booster lady sleeping with the NCAA lead investigator)

Hiring the first African American head football coach in the SEC is something we needed to do at the time. And yes, it killed the early to mid 2000s for us.

[Jack Lambert]

It sounds like he has it right to me. Everything he said is factually correct except POSSIBLY with MSU being the hardest place to win in the West.

they always leave out that Miss State in the past 10 years have been to more bowl games than, Ole Miss, Arkansas and Auburn.

[gtowndawg]

When did the twelve game schedule come into play? For most of Jackie's tenure (if not all) he had one less game that would would have been an automatic win against a cupcake like Mullen did. Mullen was great for sure, but he had 9 or 10 wins extra simply from a 12 game schedule.

Also, he talks about Mullen taking us to 8 straight bowls but but let's be honest the St. Pete bowl we didn't deserve. Plus, a coach we fired took us to two in a row.

Like others have said looking at the last 100 years he's absolutely right. Looking at the last 25 he's not close to being right. Arkansas and Ole Miss are absolutely harder to win at if you look at any data point for that time period.

[Jarius]

When did the twelve game schedule come into play? For most of Jackie's tenure (if not all) he had one less game that would would have been an automatic win against a cupcake like Mullen did. Mullen was great for sure, but he had 9 or 10 wins extra simply from a 12 game schedule.

Also, he talks about Mullen taking us to 8 straight bowls but but let's be honest the St. Pete bowl we didn't deserve. Plus, a coach we fired took us to two in a row.

Like others have said looking at the last 100 years he's absolutely right. Looking at the last 25 he's not close to being right. Arkansas and Ole Miss are absolutely harder to win at if you look at any data point for that time period.

Mullen would have failed to make a bowl game in 2011, 2013, and 2016 had he played an 11 game schedule like Sherrill did and had bowl games not been so readily available for anyone who got to 6 wins. That’s nearly half of his time in Starkville That he would not have made a bowl game if you add the 2009 year. He probably would have been fired instead of getting the Florida job had he been in Sherrill’s situation. Sherrill was the better coach due to doing what he did without all of the SEC money and extra cupcake game per year.

[ShotgunDawg]

Mullen would have failed to make a bowl game in 2011, 2013, and 2016 had he played an 11 game schedule like Sherrill did and had bowl games not been so readily available for anyone who got to 6 wins.. Sherrill was the better coach due to doing what he did without all of the SEC money and extra cupcake game per year.

Sherrill coached in a much different SEC. It's a tough comparison

[BrunswickDawg]

Mullen would have failed to make a bowl game in 2011, 2013, and 2016 had he played an 11 game schedule like Sherrill did and had bowl games not been so readily available for anyone who got to 6 wins. That?s nearly half of his time in Starkville That he would not have made a bowl game if you add the 2009 year. He probably would have been fired instead of getting the Florida job had he been in Sherrill?s situation. Sherrill was the better coach due to doing what he did without all of the SEC money and extra cupcake game per year.

The number of available bowls and the 12th cupcake game really benefited Mullen. In 1970, the 11 game schedule was added. If you go back to 1970 and add a 12th cupcake game and assume a win, and apply 6 wins making you bowl eligible you get this:
- 3 additional seasons of 9+ wins (plus additional 10 wins - '74, '76, '80)
- 7 additional "bowl eligible" seasons ('77, '82, '85, '86, '89, '90, '96)
- 4 seasons we were already "bowl eligible" but did not go to a bowl ('75, '76, '78, '97)
- 6 additional regular seasons of .500+

That would be a huge perception changer outside of the Croom Error, giving us 5 Bowls in the '70s (instead of 1); 6 in the '80s (instead of 2); and 8 in the 90s (instead of 5).

This should not detract from the job Mullen did - he did great. But, it does show the benefits the era gave him compared to others.

[Turfdawg67]

The number of available bowls and the 12th cupcake game really benefited Mullen. In 1970, the 11 game schedule was added. If you go back to 1970 and add a 12th cupcake game and assume a win, and apply 6 wins making you bowl eligible you get this:
- 3 additional seasons of 9+ wins (plus additional 10 wins - '74, '76, '80)
- 7 additional "bowl eligible" seasons ('77, '82, '85, '86, '89, '90, '96)
- 4 seasons we were already "bowl eligible" but did not go to a bowl ('75, '76, '78, '97)
- 6 additional regular seasons of .500+

That would be a huge perception changer outside of the Croom Error, giving us 5 Bowls in the '70s (instead of 1); 6 in the '80s (instead of 2); and 8 in the 90s (instead of 5).

This should not detract from the job Mullen did - he did great. But, it does show the benefits the era gave him compared to others.

The twitter guy ain't wrong, but you provided the "why" Mullen's years seemed so much more fruitful. You should copy and paste this in a reply to him! Well done!

[gtowndawg]

Mullen would have failed to make a bowl game in 2011, 2013, and 2016 had he played an 11 game schedule like Sherrill did and had bowl games not been so readily available for anyone who got to 6 wins. That’s nearly half of his time in Starkville That he would not have made a bowl game if you add the 2009 year. He probably would have been fired instead of getting the Florida job had he been in Sherrill’s situation. Sherrill was the better coach due to doing what he did without all of the SEC money and extra cupcake game per year.

Yep, valid point. In 1997 (Jackie) we went 7-4 and did not go to a bowl as I recall.

[maroonmania]

Mullen would have failed to make a bowl game in 2011, 2013, and 2016 had he played an 11 game schedule like Sherrill did and had bowl games not been so readily available for anyone who got to 6 wins. That?s nearly half of his time in Starkville That he would not have made a bowl game if you add the 2009 year. He probably would have been fired instead of getting the Florida job had he been in Sherrill?s situation. Sherrill was the better coach due to doing what he did without all of the SEC money and extra cupcake game per year.

People that weren't around when Sherrill took over have no idea the disadvantages we had to most other SEC teams during that time in terms of facilities, fan attendance, alumni support, TV exposure, budgets, no history of winning at all, etc. Heck, Sherrill had one team miss a bowl at 7-4 while Mullen had one go at 5-7. Just a different time. I seriously doubt Mullen would have even taken our job at the time Sherrill did. They are both great coaches but I would put Sherrill ahead of Mullen because without what Sherrill did in his first ten years here the Mullen years here would not have even been possible. The last few years sort of tarnish what Jackie did but he really had to build from scratch when he arrived. Mullen had much more to work with including weekly TV exposure plus quickly started getting big money from the SEC Network that allowed the end zone stadium expansion. So when Sherrill took over we absolutely were the hardest place to win in the West. At this point I would say we are ahead of Arkansas and are at least tied with if not ahead of Ole Miss.

[gtowndawg]

People that weren't around when Sherrill took over have no idea the disadvantages we had to most other SEC teams during that time in terms of facilities, fan attendance, alumni support, TV exposure, budgets, no history of winning at all, etc. Heck, Sherrill had one team miss a bowl at 7-4 while Mullen had one go at 5-7. Just a different time. I seriously doubt Mullen would have even taken our job at the time Sherrill did. They are both great coaches but I would put Sherrill ahead of Mullen because without what Sherrill did in his first ten years here the Mullen years here would not have even been possible. The last few years sort of tarnish what Jackie did but he really had to build from scratch when he arrived. Mullen had much more to work with including weekly TV exposure plus quickly started getting big money from the SEC Network that allowed the end zone stadium expansion. So when Sherrill took over we absolutely were the hardest place to win in the West. At this point I would say we are ahead of Arkansas and are at least tied with if not ahead of Ole Miss.

Totally agree. As a reminder, this was the stadium when Jackie took the job (and the practice facilities were, um....interesting):

[ShotgunDawg]

When did the twelve game schedule come into play? For most of Jackie's tenure (if not all) he had one less game that would would have been an automatic win against a cupcake like Mullen did. Mullen was great for sure, but he had 9 or 10 wins extra simply from a 12 game schedule.

Also, he talks about Mullen taking us to 8 straight bowls but but let's be honest the St. Pete bowl we didn't deserve. Plus, a coach we fired took us to two in a row.

Like others have said looking at the last 100 years he's absolutely right. Looking at the last 25 he's not close to being right. Arkansas and Ole Miss are absolutely harder to win at if you look at any data point for that time period.

Good post.

I think this makes the Leach tenure all the more important.

MSU needs to prove that someone other than Mullen can really win here.

If MSU maintains winning over 3 different coaches, it should become fairly clear that MSU is a good job

[SheltonChoked]

When did the twelve game schedule come into play? For most of Jackie's tenure (if not all) he had one less game that would would have been an automatic win against a cupcake like Mullen did. Mullen was great for sure, but he had 9 or 10 wins extra simply from a 12 game schedule.

Also, he talks about Mullen taking us to 8 straight bowls but but let's be honest the St. Pete bowl we didn't deserve. Plus, a coach we fired took us to two in a row.

Like others have said looking at the last 100 years he's absolutely right. Looking at the last 25 he's not close to being right. Arkansas and Ole Miss are absolutely harder to win at if you look at any data point for that time period.

Not to mention, it's way easier to get to a bowl than even in Jackie's time

Signed
1997 MSU Football

[QuadrupleOption]

Another mis-understanding of post 1990 Mississippi State.

This is what we're fighting.

No mention of very few home games vs LSU for the better half of a century.

No mention of play Alabama every year when other schools did.

No mention of virtually no conference home games for the better half of a century.

Again, it appears that no matter how much we win, there still appears be a bad narrative.

None of those things changes any of the points that he's making in his tweets. Sherrill was our most successful coach since McKeen, and he went .500 (and had to get two Bama forfeits to get there). Mullen has had more on-field success than any other coach in the prior 60 years at MSU.

All those other items you mention don't change that. Our administration allowed it to happen because they didn't give a shit about football. That's on MSU, not the world. And for someone who routinely castigates others for being all "po' ol' MSU", you sure are making a lot of excuses for our shitty past. We sucked, with a few bright spots (Murray Warmath, 2 seasons, left for Minnesota and won a NC, Darrell Royal, 2 seasons, left for Texas, won a NC, Bob Tyler, 6 seasons, thought he could beat the NCAA, Jackie Sherrill, 10 seasons, .500 record) until Mullen came along.

Like it or not, MSU historically is the worst job in the SEC, and it will take another 10 years of winning seasons (and maybe an actual SEC title) to change that perception. Regardless, the perception of MSU HAS changed over the last decade. We aren't a laughingstock any more - we're just another average school in a vicious, soul-crushing conference.

[ShotgunDawg]

None of those things changes any of the points that he's making in his tweets. Sherrill was our most successful coach since McKeen, and he went .500 (and had to get two Bama forfeits to get there). Mullen has had more on-field success than any other coach in the prior 60 years at MSU.

All those other items you mention don't change that. Our administration allowed it to happen because they didn't give a shit about football. That's on MSU, not the world. And for someone who routinely castigates others for being all "po' ol' MSU", you sure are making a lot of excuses for our shitty past. We sucked, with a few bright spots (Murray Warmath, 2 seasons, left for Minnesota and won a NC, Darrell Royal, 2 seasons, left for Texas, won a NC, Bob Tyler, 6 seasons, thought he could beat the NCAA, Jackie Sherrill, 10 seasons, .500 record) until Mullen came along.

Like it or not, MSU historically is the worst job in the SEC, and it will take another 10 years of winning seasons (and maybe an actual SEC title) to change that perception. Regardless, the perception of MSU HAS changed over the last decade. We aren't a laughingstock any more - we're just another average school in a vicious, soul-crushing conference.

We were Po Mittittippi Tate, but we aren't anymore.

Weeding out that mentality is what I fight against, not that there wasn't a good reason that it started.