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Thread: Good Breakdown of Mike Leach Offense

  1. #21
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    You don't think we will try to have wide splits?
    Or you think we will and won't be able to pass protect doing so?
    I think he will try.

    I think he will learn that he better close it down a little. I'm not saying get foot to foot- but we cant handle Bama, LSU, Fla, Georgia, A&M, or Auburn most years at 3 feet. 2 feet will most likely be what he has to adjust to. They have people that can make OL guys whiff. SEC D's also arent scared to blitz those gaps and play press coverage when they do it.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I think he will try.

    I think he will learn that he better close it down a little. I'm not saying get foot to foot- but we cant handle Bama, LSU, Fla, Georgia, A&M, or Auburn most years at 3 feet. 2 feet will most likely be what he has to adjust to. They have people that can make OL guys whiff. SEC D's also arent scared to blitz those gaps and play press coverage when they do it.
    They didn’ do a very good job of making his olinemen Whif in 1998. They simply put up the most yards ever in a single season in the SEC. He also has a winning record against Ole Miss and beat A&M’s ass every year in the big 12. Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, and USC all had way better athletes on defense than he had on offense and he handled those teams Just fine. His offense Will work just fine as is....
    Last edited by Jarius; 05-16-2020 at 09:15 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    I think he will try.

    I think he will learn that he better close it down a little. I'm not saying get foot to foot- but we cant handle Bama, LSU, Fla, Georgia, A&M, or Auburn most years at 3 feet. 2 feet will most likely be what he has to adjust to. They have people that can make OL guys whiff. SEC D's also arent scared to blitz those gaps and play press coverage when they do it.
    Can you expound on this a little?

    If they make a guy wiff in one on one wouldn't they get through anyway? Yeah with 2ft splits a guy would be a little closer to help, but if the DT was that good wouldn't he get through a lunging attempt at help anyway. Is it mainly just a badass nose straight up on a center that you're worried about?

    Do you not think it's helpful to have the ends much further away from the QB because of the splits? Or even the 3 tech further away? That seems like a huge benefit to me.

    Wouldn't blitzing linebackers through the gaps set up well for mesh, shallow cross and y stick? I can see how that would be more difficult against press coverage, but generally only Alabama, LSU and maybe Auburn play that way and have the guys to do it. We aren't doing anything offensively against those defenses anyway, so I like the idea of trying something different. Something that's been proven to work against caliber of defenses we'll play most of the time, and something that will at least hopefully keep those elite defenses off balanced.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg View Post
    Can you expound on this a little?

    If they make a guy wiff in one on one wouldn't they get through anyway? Yeah with 2ft splits a guy would be a little closer to help, but if the DT was that good wouldn't he get through a lunging attempt at help anyway. Is it mainly just a badass nose straight up on a center that you're worried about?

    Do you not think it's helpful to have the ends much further away from the QB because of the splits? Or even the 3 tech further away? That seems like a huge benefit to me.

    Wouldn't blitzing linebackers through the gaps set up well for mesh, shallow cross and y stick? I can see how that would be more difficult against press coverage, but generally only Alabama, LSU and maybe Auburn play that way and have the guys to do it. We aren't doing anything offensively against those defenses anyway, so I like the idea of trying something different. Something that's been proven to work against caliber of defenses we'll play most of the time, and something that will at least hopefully keep those elite defenses off balanced.
    I was thinking the same thing with widening the edge rushers. I'll also add that I think spacing everybody out makes it less congested and easier to identify assignments for OL.

    To 34s point, i guess having tighter splits would close down interior rush lanes though should an interior OL whiff on his guy.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    I was thinking the same thing with widening the edge rushers. I'll also add that I think spacing everybody out makes it less congested and easier to identify assignments for OL.

    To 34s point, i guess having tighter splits would close down interior rush lanes though should an interior OL whiff on his guy.
    I think it just gives the DTs more room to work & that's the issue.

    Either way, I'm not really worried about it because Leach has been at so many different schools & conferences doing this that I'm sure he's seen every defense they can throw at it.

    Does the SEC have more talent? Yes, but he's coached against individual players throughout his career that has needed to adjust for on the OL. So I'm sure he has a plan on how to handle things.

    Again, 18 years of head coaching experience in different conferences, including the SEC.

    I'm sure there will be adjustments, but there will be adjustments for the SEC DCs as well.

    Are SEC teams going to put in new alignments & adjustments for the 1 week they play Leach? Well, if they do, that increases the chances that they screw up as well.

    I'm sure every SEC DC will just watch the game against U Dub & implement that scheme. Shouldn't make it too difficult to prepare in the first half of the season
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Coach34's Avatar
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    These are some examples of what happens when great DL players get one on ones:



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  7. #27
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    Is the implication that these types of great DL will get more one vs ones against wider splits? It seems like the of one vs ones opportunities will be the same regardless of one foot splits or three four splits.
    Or is it that interior DL will have more room to maneuver against wider splits? That I can understand, but the end zone camera view of the game shotgun linked the other day doesn't seem to suggest that. There was a lot of passing off by OL and the sets looked narrower than the splits pre snap.
    Last edited by confucius say; 05-17-2020 at 01:02 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Is the implication that these types of great DL will get more one vs ones against wider splits? It seems like the of one vs ones opportunities will be the same regardless of one foot splits or three four splits.
    Or is it that interior DL will have more room to maneuver against wider splits? That I can understand, but the end zone camera view of the game shotgun linked the other day doesn't seem to suggest that. There was a lot of passing off by OL and the sets looked narrower than the splits pre snap.
    Yes. When you zone block- your OL combos inside and then one moves on to the LB. With wider splits like that- you cant combo- and the OL guys have to 1 on 1. More 1 on 1's with the animals of the SEC that play DL is a losing proposition.
    In pass pro- it gives the DL more room to maneuver a path to the QB. DE's have more room to make their pass rush without getting caught up in the garbage inside when they make inside moves. It make our OT's have to guess more. The inside move is a more viable option now for DE's and allows them to still be able to keep contain.
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  9. #29
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    Interesting in the run game. All the talk has been about wider splits with pass pro.

    Any benefits of wider splits in the run game? Does leach mainly zone block in the run game? Seems like wide splits would be great for traps and power concepts.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Yes. When you zone block- your OL combos inside and then one moves on to the LB. With wider splits like that- you cant combo- and the OL guys have to 1 on 1. More 1 on 1's with the animals of the SEC that play DL is a losing proposition.
    In pass pro- it gives the DL more room to maneuver a path to the QB. DE's have more room to make their pass rush without getting caught up in the garbage inside when they make inside moves. It make our OT's have to guess more. The inside move is a more viable option now for DE's and allows them to still be able to keep contain.
    Less garbage on the inside also helps the offensive line better identify where guys are going. Stunting doesn't create as much confusion and if they stunt they have further to go to get to the QB. Just another perspective.

    Overall I can see how the middle is a bigger risk. I think the elite guys like Simmons and Brown are problems regardless, but that will be something to watch. Thankfully, those guys don't grow on trees.

    Would you agree that you're in a better position on the edges since those guys are starting further away? Most ends prefer to go outside. I see a big advantage in making that move less effected than it would be otherwise.

    You make a good point on the combo blocks, but I imagine we won't be combo-ing as much anyway since half our runs will be draws.

  11. #31
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    https://twitter.com/bmlanglois/statu...97015030972417

    This is a good explanation of how Leach's offense works. It's very QB centered and the QB is making the calls basically. That's VERY different than Moorhead's "check with me and in two minutes I'll come up with the perfect play, oh crap the defense just changed". I think this also may explain in part why Leach's offense is so pass heavy. If your QB is making the calls you know they're going to probably want to pass every play.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg View Post
    Less garbage on the inside also helps the offensive line better identify where guys are going. Stunting doesn't create as much confusion and if they stunt they have further to go to get to the QB. Just another perspective.

    Overall I can see how the middle is a bigger risk. I think the elite guys like Simmons and Brown are problems regardless, but that will be something to watch. Thankfully, those guys don't grow on trees.

    Would you agree that you're in a better position on the edges since those guys are starting further away? Most ends prefer to go outside. I see a big advantage in making that move less effected than it would be otherwise.

    You make a good point on the combo blocks, but I imagine we won't be combo-ing as much anyway since half our runs will be draws.
    Yeah. And when we do run he's probably going to call them at a time where we have obvious numbers in the box from passing every down. That and the fact that the screen game is going to essentially be an extension of our running game.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Todd4State's Avatar
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    The other thing I really like a LOT about Leach's offense is the fact that he tries to get as many receivers and players involved as possible. That way you can't key in on someone. I remember Bill Walsh and the 49ers had a big emphasis on that. Jerry Rice was the star but they used Roger Craig, John Taylor, Brent Jones, and Tom Rathman a lot as well. You couldn't really key in on just Rice because if you did they would kill you with the other guys. See the game winning TD pass in Super Bowl 23 to John Taylor. And because you had to respect the other guys it opened up Rice more and made him even more dangerous. On the other side for us, I remember with Jackie our offense in the late 1990's was mostly JJ Johnson carrying the ball 25+ times a game and by Arkansas he was worn out and beaten up. And even though we got to the SEC Title game the fact that JJ was basically out of the game really hurt us and probably cost us the SEC Title. Same with Dan to a lesser degree with Dak or Fitz running the ball all the time although he spread it around a lot better. And Moorhead was insistent on using his "top five" which limited us to just those five guys for the most part and meant that guys like Javonta Payton, Malik Dear, and Dontae Jones who could have really helped the offense more mostly sat on the bench while guys like Guidry dropped passes. It also limited guys like Aeris Williams and Nick Gibson to a degree too because we used only one back a majority of the time.

  14. #34
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    Yes. When you zone block- your OL combos inside and then one moves on to the LB. With wider splits like that- you cant combo- and the OL guys have to 1 on 1. More 1 on 1's with the animals of the SEC that play DL is a losing proposition.
    In pass pro- it gives the DL more room to maneuver a path to the QB. DE's have more room to make their pass rush without getting caught up in the garbage inside when they make inside moves. It make our OT's have to guess more. The inside move is a more viable option now for DE's and allows them to still be able to keep contain.
    Then how has he won so much?

    We're talking about possibly the most innovative coach of all time here.

    I'd be floored if he doesn't figure it out.
    Last edited by ShotgunDawg; 05-17-2020 at 05:00 PM.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Then how has he won so much.
    he hasnt played SEC defenses/competition

    Lost to Auburn at Wash State
    His best TT team lost by 2 TD's to an 8-4 OM team led by Jevon Snead
    Beat OM in 2003
    Lost to Bama in 2005
    His OOC schedules have been extremely weak thru the years
    5-15 vs OU and Texas while in the B12
    Never beat Washington while at WSt


    He's a good coach- but I think the expectations some of you have are ridiculous. Hopefully he can get a team together to push for 10 wins every 4 years as Mullen did.
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  16. #36
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    he hasnt played SEC defenses/competition

    Lost to Auburn at Wash State
    His best TT team lost by 2 TD's to an 8-4 OM team led by Jevon Snead
    Beat OM in 2003
    Lost to Bama in 2005
    His OOC schedules have been extremely weak thru the years
    5-15 vs OU and Texas while in the B12
    Never beat Washington while at WSt


    He's a good coach- but I think the expectations some of you have are ridiculous. Hopefully he can get a team together to push for 10 wins every 4 years as Mullen did.
    He's won FAR above the historical average at all these schools & he hasn't had close to SEC talent competing against these SEC teams.

    I'm not predicting a natty or anything like that, but the guy is good. Damn good & it's fairly obvious with 10 min of research.
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  17. #37
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Here's a good video of Wazzou's offense. It's quick & has some shots from the end zone that provide a good perspective on the blocking

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    he hasnt played SEC defenses/competition

    Lost to Auburn at Wash State
    His best TT team lost by 2 TD's to an 8-4 OM team led by Jevon Snead
    Beat OM in 2003
    Lost to Bama in 2005
    His OOC schedules have been extremely weak thru the years
    5-15 vs OU and Texas while in the B12
    Never beat Washington while at WSt


    He's a good coach- but I think the expectations some of you have are ridiculous. Hopefully he can get a team together to push for 10 wins every 4 years as Mullen did.
    Actually he did beat Washington once at Washington State.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    He's won FAR above the historical average at all these schools & he hasn't had close to SEC talent competing against these SEC teams. .
    So an 11-1 B12 team shouldnt be expected to beat an 8-4 OM team? Spike Dykes was 150-82 at TT before Leach got there- let's not act like they were some doorknob. Spike Dykes conference winning percentage? .587- Leach? .588. TT hadnt had a losing season for 8 years when Leach took over- so he took over a program that was very steady

    Leach was .500 in conference in the Pac-12 and thats solid for them. But its not a tough conference. Their OOC schedule was weak as rainwater. Beating up Eastern Washington and Portland State every year makes it easy to pad your record.

    Let's not forget that in year 8 under Leach- They had a losing record last year
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach34 View Post
    So an 11-1 B12 team shouldnt be expected to beat an 8-4 OM team? Spike Dykes was 150-82 at TT before Leach got there- let's not act like they were some doorknob. Spike Dykes conference winning percentage? .587- Leach? .588. TT hadnt had a losing season for 8 years when Leach took over- so he took over a program that was very steady

    Leach was .500 in conference in the Pac-12 and thats solid for them. But its not a tough conference. Their OOC schedule was weak as rainwater. Beating up Eastern Washington and Portland State every year makes it easy to pad your record.

    Let's not forget that in year 8 under Leach- They had a losing record last year
    How has Oklahoma done against the SEC? No question that Dykes was a good coach but they were a 6-7 win team and Leach took them to the next level. We play FCS teams too. They padded Dan's record and I'm not complaining about it either.

    The difference is Leach will have SEC talent at MSU. Not Big 12 talent or PAC 12 after dark talent.

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