The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[dantheman4248]

And that's where I think better training and mainly cameras will mitigate a lot of issues there. I think cameras is the biggest thing other than demilitarizing. Cameras make a lot of these situations fall into place and easier to deal with.

[Commercecomet24]

Not making up excuses for anyone... but you make it sound so simple when it's just not in real time. Period.

Plenty of people have been shot very prematurely because someone got nervous or trigger happy and unfortunate isn't the word for that. But when it comes to guns if you are pulling it you better be ready to use it. That goes for a police officer or civilian.

If you make sudden moves and reach in a pocket or somewhere else while someone already has a bead on you, I don't know how to help you. Yes it's possible guns should've never been pulled out and pointed in that scenario without trying to de-escalate the situation first, but these are split second life and death decisions. No one should be held above the law, but at the same time if an officer has a gun on me, I'm going to do whatever he says and very slowly. Nothing is worth dying over.

This doesn't solve the problem of fear most of the black community has towards officers but bottomline on your #5 point is if a gun is out don't mess around because it's very likely the person who is drawn on you is jacked on adrenaline and ready to pull the trigger with any sign. If you have a way to channel that you are on another level. Training can only help so much when it comes to live action.

Very, very well said. Accurate!

[StateDawg44]

And that's where I think better training and mainly cameras will mitigate a lot of issues there. I think cameras is the biggest thing other than demilitarizing. Cameras make a lot of these situations fall into place and easier to deal with.

How do you give better training without tipping towards the military route? You & I agree we need a less militarized police force. Do they need to be psych majors also? Hostage negotiators? Profilers? Even if they were, getting a feel for the situation pulling up in the middle of a heated moment and hearing all sides of it from all sides is nearly impossible for anyone to interpret with 100% accuracy. Especially if there may be a weapon involved & whether you have prior knowledge of that weapon or not. And the fact that you were probably hauling ass to get there and adrenaline is likely taking effect before you even step foot on the ground because of that. And adrenaline is actually usually involved on both sides of this equation. Neither side is seeing things 100% clearly.

I have a feeling that cameras are the farthest thing from the officer's minds when they are in the heat of the moment and the split-second decision of "is he reaching for a weapon?". UNLESS he/she is knowingly doing something wrong and they want to make sure it stays off-camera. A row of people pointing their phones at these officers dealing with George Floyd didn't stop them from doing what they did. Why would something like a camera strapped to their chest stop that group of officers? It may hold some more accountable and save lives so I'm not against them or anything and saving one life is better than nothing. The fear and uncertainty that may cause a suspect or innocent civilian to react is still there whether the officer has a camera on their chest or not.

I agree that cameras would help in certain situations, but I'd be willing to bet that those types of situations would involve more of the "bad apple" type of officers that give all police a bad name like what's going on right now. There is no room for error when it's involving life and death for either side. I'm not arguing against them or anything. I also know you're not saying cameras and training would prevent all of these situations. There is just more going on than most people realize.

[Liverpooldawg]

The number one way to protect yourself from police brutality is don't be a jerk. That is going to escalate any situation, that is HUMAN nature, not just cops. I'm not saying that would stop it all, but it would stop a TON of it.

[dantheman4248]

The problem is you're making this be an absolute. There is no perfect training for every situation. But there can be better training. Dawgology articulated training thoughts a lot better than I could.

As for the cameras, yes they keep the bad apples in line (not all clearly. That's why we need some reform on other things like qualified immunity. How exactly? That's above my pay grade at this point but i think it would be easier to build that up from scratch than patch the current system.) Remember, a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

[StateDawg44]

The problem is you're making this be an absolute. There is no perfect training for every situation. But there can be better training. Dawgology articulated training thoughts a lot better than I could.

As for the cameras, yes they keep the bad apples in line (not all clearly. That's why we need some reform on other things like qualified immunity. How exactly? That's above my pay grade at this point but i think it would be easier to build that up from scratch than patch the current system.) Remember, a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

Are you replying to me?

How have I made it an absolute? The entire point of what I was saying is there is no such thing as an absolute for training when you're dealing with humans and their ability to make their own decisions (right or wrong) and how each and every scenario they encounter is different.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But training when it comes to guns and split-second decisions is flawed no matter how you approach it. Humans can't and never will be perfect. Not an excuse though. It's just like gun control and the removal of all guns. Take guns away from law-abiding citizens and all it does is make them defenseless. Criminals will still have guns that are stolen or not registered to them. There is no perfect way to do it and I am certainly not advocating for gun control of any sort whatsoever.

How do you prepare or train for "suicide by cop"? I'm not lobbying for higher pay for police or anything but to think a prospect would go through all of that strenuous training and education that would be required PLUS still be risking their lives is hard to imagine for what they are paid.

[Dawgology]

The problem is you're making this be an absolute. There is no perfect training for every situation. But there can be better training. Dawgology articulated training thoughts a lot better than I could.

As for the cameras, yes they keep the bad apples in line (not all clearly. That's why we need some reform on other things like qualified immunity. How exactly? That's above my pay grade at this point but i think it would be easier to build that up from scratch than patch the current system.) Remember, a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

IA is useless. It always has been and it always will be. It's completely biased, non-transparent, and reeks of coverup. It needs to be an unaffiliated group that contains a more complex mixture of individuals than just police officers and investigators. Like a said, a large state unit that triages all complaints on police brutality, investigates, mitigates, and enacts an outside audit and review of a law enforcement agency once a threshold is reached. This would also allow the complaintants personal info and name to be masked form the law enforcement agency if there was a fear of reprisal. Once the review committee got on the ground you could fold in leaders from the community that would convey issues they are seeing at their level with the local LEO and the community.

[Dawgology]

Are you replying to me?

How have I made it an absolute? The entire point of what I was saying is there is no such thing as an absolute for training when you're dealing with humans and their ability to make their own decisions (right or wrong) and how each and every scenario they encounter is different.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But training when it comes to guns and split-second decisions is flawed no matter how you approach it. Humans can't and never will be perfect. Not an excuse though. It's just like gun control and the removal of all guns. Take guns away from law-abiding citizens and all it does is make them defenseless. Criminals will still have guns that are stolen or not registered to them. There is no perfect way to do it and I am certainly not advocating for gun control of any sort whatsoever.

How do you prepare or train for "suicide by cop"? I'm not lobbying for higher pay for police or anything but to think a prospect would go through all of that strenuous training and education that would be required PLUS still be risking their lives is hard to imagine for what they are paid.

Yeah...officers here start at $14/hr....smh. As long as you employ humans to do police work or any type of enforcement or mitigation you will have the issues and problems that come along with being human. Police officers arent' robots. They have bad days. They have family issues. They have financial stress. Just like everyone else. But they are one of the few positions from which the public expects perfection at all times. It is an impossible standard. The stress is unbelievable. The average age of death for a male police officer is 66 years old. That is almost 25% below the national average. It is due largely to stress impacts on health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734369/

This is, again, why I think many officers struggle with PTSD. You pile what's going on nationwide right now to that it gets worse. Imagine literally sacrificing your health and life to try to make the world just a littl ebit better and maybe protect some people only to hear "all cops are dirty" and "all cops should be killed" due to a few idiots who abuse their power.

[StateDawg44]

Yeah...officers here start at $14/hr....smh. As long as you employ humans to do police work or any type of enforcement or mitigation you will have the issues and problems that come along with being human. Police officers arent' robots. They have bad days. They have family issues. They have financial stress. Just like everyone else. But they are one of the few positions from which the public expects perfection at all times. It is an impossible standard. The stress is unbelievable. The average age of death for a male police officer is 66 years old. That is almost 25% below the national average. It is due largely to stress impacts on health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734369/

This is, again, why I think many officers struggle with PTSD. You pile what's going on nationwide right now to that it gets worse. Imagine literally sacrificing your health and life to try to make the world just a littl ebit better and maybe protect some people only to hear "all cops are dirty" and "all cops should be killed" due to a few idiots who abuse their power.

And the thing is, the disbanding of departments would take the few idiots off the streets and remove their authority. I guess it would take the immunity part away from them also.

But it's for damn sure that those idiots would be replaced with more idiots 10 times over with no real authority to reel them in.

[Dawgology]

And the thing is, the disbanding of departments would take the few idiots off the streets and remove their authority. I guess it would take the immunity part away from them also.

But it's for damn sure those idiots would be replaced with more idiots 10 times over with no real authority to reel them in.

This is correct. I've heard a few people (albeit the fringe leftist) saying that communities could police themselves. This is a ridiculous statement. The court systems still require burden of proof for crimes. There are also these things called the 5th and 6th Amendment, and a host of legal precedence that dictate what is allowable. I guess if you are willing as a US citizen to give up your 5th and 6th Amendment rights you can just just let communities enact their own justice. Good luck....let's see how that goes.

Folks need to read about why Sir Robert Peel created modern policing in 1829. Don't believe all this garbage that is being floated out by ultra-liberal groups about law enforcement in America. The model was established in 1829 in London and was implemented in the US in 1838 in Boston and it spread from there. It is a clear line of implemenation and has absolutely NOTHING to do with slaves or posse's. That is 100% propaganda.

[Commercecomet24]

This is correct. I've heard a few people (albeit the fringe leftist) saying that communities could police themselves. This is a ridiculous statement. The court systems still require burden of proof for crimes. There are also these things called the 5th and 6th Amendment, and a host of legal precedence that dictate what is allowable. I guess if you are willing as a US citizen to give up your 5th and 6th Amendment rights you can just just let communities enact their own justice. Good luck....let's see how that goes.

Folks need to read about why Sir Robert Peel created modern policing in 1829. Don't believe all this garbage that is being floated out by ultra-liberal groups about law enforcement in America. The model was established in 1829 in London and was implemented in the US in 1838 in Boston and it spread from there. It is a clear line of implemenation and has absolutely NOTHING to do with slaves or posse's. That is 100% propaganda.

You're alright my man! Not enough rep on here for you!

[Liverpooldawg]

The COVID numbers were not good today. The ICU numbers hit an all time high with a big jump over the previous day.

[dantheman4248]

Hard to make a prediction THAT far out. That's trying to project A. our ever changing response and B. multiple months down the road once we can see where the bell curve hits in a country that's not doing near what it should to cull it. Assuming that we do what America / our leadership does, I think our self quarantining will inevitably fail and people will go back to work because they need money. This will cause a bigger spread than most every other country. How that projects out is unclear. It's not unreasonable to see where by the end of the calendar year we've had 10+% of the country infected with it. From that percentage I'd also guesstimate about average death rate. (Which so far looks to be 10% of closed (recovered or dead) cases. I'd adjust that down to at most 5% due to just guestimating that half of the people who want to get tested are turned away.) In fact I think that 10% itself goes down by at least half as we make more progress. So we'll say 2% to be conservative. So taking a conservative shot of 10% infected and 2% death rate, that projects to 650k deaths in America. I'd be predicting more conservatively here, so my final guess would be about 500k deaths in America. But that's a very rough estimate.

Now I could be (and hope) wrong about our response, but we've missed our window to cull this. We've missed it badly. I don't see us going on pause for more than 2 months. It's simply not viable. Not without universal basic income which it seems we have decided to "fix" the initial idea and make it absolutely worse. So yea, another not good signal that we're gonna botch this.

It's crazy. Should have never gotten to this point. Should have shut down the borders earlier and had rigorous testing and quarantining. That can't be forgotten when this is all over. But for now we need to come together and start making smart decisions. Injecting $2k into every american home is a smart decision. Fiddling with it, lowering it, and scaling it to give poor people EVEN LESS is a totally bad idea. How this is even in discussion let alone actually going to happen is beyond comprehension.

3-21-2020 for posterity.

[Jack Lambert]

The COVID numbers were not good today. The ICU numbers hit an all time high with a big jump over the previous day.

You have not heard. No one cares anymore.*****

[Homedawg]

The COVID numbers were not good today. The ICU numbers hit an all time high with a big jump over the previous day.

Good grief dude. Where were our two days ago when hospitalized hit a month low... and no all time high was 172. You and dan the man love to talk about the the bad. Deal w it. It isn't going away.

[dantheman4248]

Good grief dude. Where were our two days ago when hospitalized hit a month low... and no all time high was 172. You and dan the man love to talk about the the bad. Deal w it. It isn't going away.

I deal in reality. Hence my early early EARLY guestimation.

500k deaths by the end of the year (as social distancing gets worse and we lose 1k a day already w/ it it's a reasonable assumption this will be closer than almost anyone else on here.)

America wouldn't handle 2+ months of quarantine. We'd protest for our jobs.

It's almost like when you look at things objectively you can make good guesses. Who ****in knew

[StateDawg44]

I deal in reality. Hence my early early EARLY guestimation.

500k deaths by the end of the year (as social distancing gets worse and we lose 1k a day already w/ it it's a reasonable assumption this will be closer than almost anyone else on here.)

America wouldn't handle 2+ months of quarantine. We'd protest for our jobs.

It's almost like when you look at things objectively you can make good guesses. Who ****in knew

Look at me, look at me. Look what I did.

You so desperately want a pat on the back, don't you?

Congrats????

[dantheman4248]

Look at me, look at me. Look what I did.

You so desperately want a pat on the back, don't you?

Congrats????

Let's see.

Attack me for having a "negative opinion"

Attack me for making a "negative prediction" (when asked).

Attack me for pointing out I'm right.

It seems like it's not about having discourse but about attacking someone who hurt your snowflake feelings. Remember feels =/= reals.

Point was people loved to shit on my "outlandish" opinion and here we are, with me hitting the nail on the head. But we didn't have data then and we didn't have this and we didn't have that and **** you you can't just assume numbers that's not how math works.

Next time when someone gives you educated information, maybe read it and respond in kind. World would be a lot better place.

[StateDawg44]

Let's see.

Attack me for having a "negative opinion"

Attack me for making a "negative prediction" (when asked).

Attack me for pointing out I'm right.

It seems like it's not about having discourse but about attacking someone who hurt your snowflake feelings. Remember feels =/= reals.

Point was people loved to shit on my "outlandish" opinion and here we are, with me hitting the nail on the head. But we didn't have data then and we didn't have this and we didn't have that and **** you you can't just assume numbers that's not how math works.

Next time when someone gives you educated information, maybe read it and respond in kind. World would be a lot better place.

You is smart, you is kind, you is important.

I couldn't care less if what you were predicting was negative or positive. Quit pretending like everything you say or predict comes to fruition or like you are some mastermind.


"Remember feels =/= reals."

The fact that you would even type something like that says all anyone needs to know. I'll just point and laugh at you. And that's beyond ironic you're accusing someone else of being a snowflake. Carry on though.


Your cherry-picked "outlandish" opinion is null and void and totally irrelevant after finding out the virus had been here since November. Whatever makes you feel good though. Your "data" was still wrong because they were well behind it with the numbers being used and still aren't accurate. The fact that they were wrong and their numbers couldn't be accurate, whether they were low or high was all I was saying. You pretend like they are set in stone and without a doubt accurate. They aren't. Period.

Anyone with a brain could predict a virus would spread and we'd reach certain numbers. But again, You is smart, you is kind, you is important. Stroke that ego.

Continue relishing in copying and pasting info. along like you are crunching numbers and enjoying getting to say I told ya so every death toll or infected milestone your "prediction" comes to. Sick, sad, and pathetic.

[Dawgology]

I deal in reality. Hence my early early EARLY guestimation.

500k deaths by the end of the year (as social distancing gets worse and we lose 1k a day already w/ it it's a reasonable assumption this will be closer than almost anyone else on here.)

America wouldn't handle 2+ months of quarantine. We'd protest for our jobs.

It's almost like when you look at things objectively you can make good guesses. Who ****in knew

Are you talking about 500K deaths by the end of the year in America or the world? You understand that (though Mississippi is seeing slight growth due to more testing) that daily cases and deaths are dropping in the US and have been since the end of April. Additionally, worldwide daily case number are growing while daily deaths are dropping. This is a strong indication that the virus is FAR more widespread than anyone thought and far less dealy than anyone thought and treament for the disease has improved.