The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[Dawgology]

Zero days. Cause we already know what is going to happen. People will go out and about. They will go to work. At some point, they will contract the virus. A large percentage will not even know they have it. They will continue to infect people over the course of 10-20 days, including old people and immune compromised people. They may or may not ever show symptoms themselves. People they know are going to get sick, some will die. No one will be at fault, and the same time, all of us will be at fault.

That is the worst part of this virus. Its slow development and the unknowing. At least with other viruses you know really quickly within a day or two whether you have it. H1N1 and Ebola both present themselves very quickly and you can trace it. This one you cannot.

So, trust me, I understand the need to get back to work for the overall economy. I get it. As a country we will just have to make a choice. Economy or protecting older folks. It really is that simple.
If you want to open everything back up, you should have been screaming for mass nationwide testing 2 months ago. Or start now, so 2 months from now we can do it much safer.

Those aren't the only two choices. There is a middle way. But everyone has to be radically polarized on their view.

If you are older, in poor health, or immunocompromised then you need to shelter-in-place. If you don't fall into that high risk category then you need to return to daily life with an eye toward being cognizant. Wash your hands. Wear a mask when in crowded spaces. Try to adhere to the 6ft social distancing. Eventually 2/3 of the US population will get it and create herd immunity. This, combined with better treatements and vaccine, will allow those in the high-risk category to return to normal life. Let the "free money" be focused on those in the high risk category. Everyone else can work and right the economy.

[Homedawg]

Zero days. Cause we already know what is going to happen. People will go out and about. They will go to work. At some point, they will contract the virus. A large percentage will not even know they have it. They will continue to infect people over the course of 10-20 days, including old people and immune compromised people. They may or may not ever show symptoms themselves. People they know are going to get sick, some will die. No one will be at fault, and the same time, all of us will be at fault.

That is the worst part of this virus. Its slow development and the unknowing. At least with other viruses you know really quickly within a day or two whether you have it. H1N1 and Ebola both present themselves very quickly and you can trace it. This one you cannot.

So, trust me, I understand the need to get back to work for the overall economy. I get it. As a country we will just have to make a choice. Economy or protecting older folks. It really is that simple.
If you want to open everything back up, you should have been screaming for mass nationwide testing 2 months ago. Or start now, so 2 months from now we can do it much safer.

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It would be great, but with people out and about, the virus will infect more of the population. Older folks will get it. Game over.
It would be awesome if this virus worked like that, but old people and high risk risk people couldn't quarantine themselves enough not to get it.

[Commercecomet24]

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

This. I still hear people saying shelter in place was to stop the virus. Shelter in place was just to slow it down so medical resources wouldn't be overwhelmed. As you said it's been flattened and it's time we move ahead.

[Dawgology]

It would be great, but with people out and about, the virus will infect more of the population. Older folks will get it. Game over.
It would be awesome if this virus worked like that, but old people and high risk risk people couldn't quarantine themselves enough not to get it.

So the entire population can quarantine themselves enough but not a small pool of the population. Ok.

[Cooterpoot]

It would be great, but with people out and about, the virus will infect more of the population. Older folks will get it. Game over.
It would be awesome if this virus worked like that, but old people and high risk risk people couldn't quarantine themselves enough not to get it.

Then older folks should take it more seriously and stay their asses at home and avoid contact with people as much as possible.
I'm not older but I have a number of underlying issues. I don't go out much. I work at home. My family wears masks and take other measures if they go out.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

I don't disagree, but the next step potentially taken correctly could help long term. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, agreed. If we have 200k active cases now, it could be 400k more in 2 weeks.

200
400
800
1600k
3200k in a matter of weeks without tracking. Can't track without testing.

Flattening the curve does nothing to change the final numbers of infected. It's sole purpose is to not overwhelm what our hospitals can handle. As you can see from the numbers, when you start with a relatively large number at the beginning, it escalates very quickly.

[Lord McBuckethead]

So the entire population can quarantine themselves enough but not a small pool of the population. Ok.

Yeah, when you have a small portion of the population curently infected, a large group of people can stay away from them. If our numbers skyrocket, no one would be able to stay away from that many people.
It's a function of the number of carriers versus who can still catch it. It is exactly how infections work.
Right now Covid is at 2.8 people infected per person that is carrying it. Not terrible, but still higher than the flu.
The chances of me running into on of the 10k (potential) people in MS that are carrying it is not very high, but if 200k have it. It is hard to avoid.

So by returning to work, we up the number of carriers. It is just a matter of time that one person has to go and do so and so for an old person. Its not that they wouldn't try to distance themselves, they literally cannot.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Then older folks should take it more seriously and stay their asses at home and avoid contact with people as much as possible.
I'm not older but I have a number of underlying issues. I don't go out much. I work at home. My family wears masks and take other measures if they go out.

All of those actions are what everyone should be doing. Still, even with those precautions you could still get it. Especially if the active cases goes up locally.

[SheltonChoked]

Shelton with all due respect it's something of a miracle we even HAVE a test 4 months in, it really is. Those things normally take years. That has amazed me. Technology progresses as always,

I find that hard to believe since Germany, Taiwan, China, and South Korea all had working tests before we did. Less than 2 months after the first known infection.

Maybe since it is similar to SARS, they could do it faster?

All this might have gone better, if we had something to coordinate efforts by a central agency in times of emergency ( like a defense act), to take the responsibility to start producing the items needed, (Vent, PPE, test materials) and foot the bill.

But apparently we don't have that ability any more...

[Extendedcab]

Those aren't the only two choices. There is a middle way. But everyone has to be radically polarized on their view.

If you are older, in poor health, or immunocompromised then you need to shelter-in-place. If you don't fall into that high risk category then you need to return to daily life with an eye toward being cognizant. Wash your hands. Wear a mask when in crowded spaces. Try to adhere to the 6ft social distancing. Eventually 2/3 of the US population will get it and create herd immunity. This, combined with better treatements and vaccine, will allow those in the high-risk category to return to normal life. Let the "free money" be focused on those in the high risk category. Everyone else can work and right the economy.

Bingo, thank you Dawgology, as our responses, to date, have been all (Shelter in Place) or nothing (open up the economy like GA) in response to the virus. We need a common sense approach as you outline here. If not, we will all die (unfavorable percentage that is) of the virus now or later as this crap drags on.

Good post!

[StateDawg44]

All of those actions are what everyone should be doing. Still, even with those precautions you could still get it. Especially if the active cases goes up locally.

Let us know when you bring something new to the table.

Not saying I have contributed any groundbreaking posts, and not trying to troll you but you're repeating stuff that was covered over 2 weeks ago.

And here we are now. It will have to happen sooner or later. Now or 2 weeks from now will still trigger the same "spike" in numbers.

[Commercecomet24]

Then older folks should take it more seriously and stay their asses at home and avoid contact with people as much as possible.
I'm not older but I have a number of underlying issues. I don't go out much. I work at home. My family wears masks and take other measures if they go out.

Commons sense right here.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Let us know when you bring something new to the table.

Not saying I have contributed any groundbreaking posts, and not trying to troll you but you're repeating stuff that was covered over 2 weeks ago.

And here we are now. It will have to happen sooner or later. Now or 2 weeks from now will still trigger the same "spike" in numbers.

The correct information has to be repeated. People have short term memory issues and without being reminded will then follow this post up with a "so when are we all going to start going back to football games" post. The simple fact is, this will not get better without better testing, herd immunization, or a vaccine. Just telling older people to stay home will do next to nothing when everyone they could have contact with is compromised. Other than full quarantine on older people, it will fail. That's including all packaging on food product. etc.

Truth is, there is no ground breaking information to share in this conversation or other Covid conversations. The simple truth is that things are not going to go back to normal until one or more of those three simple things are achieved. Sure, we could start back the economy right now with safe guards on how we work and things may not get too bad. We can try it, but people act like we are going to just flip the switch back on we are going to stay with the current trends is crazy. Within 3 weeks of the on switch, we could surpass our capacity given the current numbers of known and to a bigger extent the unknown infected.

Seriously, two days after they stopped the day by day updates on infected and deaths people were like....."so we can go back to doing what we want?"
Common sense approach is the best bet, but do not forget that anyone that chooses to go out and has any kind of contact with anyone or anything that could find its way into a compromised person is upping those peoples chance of contracting it and dying.

[Todd4State]

The correct information has to be repeated. People have short term memory issues and without being reminded will then follow this post up with a "so when are we all going to start going back to football games" post. The simple fact is, this will not get better without better testing, herd immunization, or a vaccine. Just telling older people to stay home will do next to nothing when everyone they could have contact with is compromised. Other than full quarantine on older people, it will fail. That's including all packaging on food product. etc.

Truth is, there is no ground breaking information to share in this conversation or other Covid conversations. The simple truth is that things are not going to go back to normal until one or more of those three simple things are achieved. Sure, we could start back the economy right now with safe guards on how we work and things may not get too bad. We can try it, but people act like we are going to just flip the switch back on we are going to stay with the current trends is crazy. Within 3 weeks of the on switch, we could surpass our capacity given the current numbers of known and to a bigger extent the unknown infected.

Seriously, two days after they stopped the day by day updates on infected and deaths people were like....."so we can go back to doing what we want?"
Common sense approach is the best bet, but do not forget that anyone that chooses to go out and has any kind of contact with anyone or anything that could find its way into a compromised person is upping those peoples chance of contracting it and dying.

I can think of no better way of achieving herd immunity than opening things back up.

[Todd4State]

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

This is correct.

[gtowndawg]

This. I still hear people saying shelter in place was to stop the virus. Shelter in place was just to slow it down so medical resources wouldn't be overwhelmed. As you said it's been flattened and it's time we move ahead.

Hear, hear!

[Lord McBuckethead]

Bingo, thank you Dawgology, as our responses, to date, have been all (Shelter in Place) or nothing (open up the economy like GA) in response to the virus. We need a common sense approach as you outline here. If not, we will all die (unfavorable percentage that is) of the virus now or later as this crap drags on.

Good post!

The middle way would be great, if you don't see spikes. I am all for opening up the economy. I wish we had testing in place that would help open it safer, but we have done literally nothing to get it up to speed. At whatever percentage increase we open the economy, you will see the sick numbers increase. As long as all companies, within reason, can safe guard their employees and people refrain from meeting in groups of really any size, the infected rate could stay within range. Of course, people will die, but it would keep us out of the very tragic people dying just because we couldn't handle the capacity.

Why doesn't one side of the conversation include the middle of the road approach when discussing openin up the economy. They literally give zero guidelines to how to do it. Hell the President has had an update meeting literally every single day for 3 weeks, calling for states to be "liberated" whatever that means and has really given nothing to the "how" part. Some states like MS could open up, I would think. But even then, we would be starting with 1000s of known cases versus us shutting it down with only 1 known case.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I can think of no better way of achieving herd immunity than opening things back up.

yeah, if people do what they are supposed to do. Like all things, leadership on how to open, what to open, and at what rate would be key. So far, that leadership at all levels has been missing.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Hear, hear!

Not sure why you are seconding it. Most everyone I know understands this as a given.