The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[BrunswickDawg]

It's picking which condiments you want on your shit sandwich. That said, if I'm going to be forced to eat a shit sandwich, I'd at least like the choice of condiments and I don't see how Kemp is to blame for allowing that.

I would not go to a massage therapist and if my wife were a massage therapist, I would want her to not work in hopes that get some surprise good news as far as treatment in the next month or so. But my wife is also low risk as far as anybody knows and for her the risk of death probably is something like the flu, or maybe double it (which is still very small), and if she wanted to go back to work, it'd be hard for me to be too upset about it and it's certainly not the governor's place to tell her not to. There certainly could be a pandemic where the disease was so bad the infringement on personal liberty was justified, but this one isn't, as bad as it is.

The shit sandwich is a pretty good comparison. But, I think the risk is higher than the flu for my wife's business. We live in an a tourist/retirement community. Her average client is well over 65, many have health issues, many will probably not come back for a long time because of this. My wife's concerns are much more about the risk to her clients then it is about the risk to her - and making sure the environment she provides is safe.

When you are licensed and regulated by the State - which massage therapists are - then it is the job of the Governor/governments job to tell you when to be open or not. The entire reason it is a regulated industry is for health and public wellness reasons - why should it be different now?

[BrunswickDawg]

If you don't mind me asking, Brunswick, what's her insurance carrier advising? As much as we're focused on what politicians are or should be saying, I suspect many -- if not most -- businesses are listening to their insurers more. Whether or not Kemp should've given the green light to movie theaters to open next Monday, I imagine his input is irrelevant until theaters assess their risk exposure to be worth the cost of doing business.

A great example of this is dentist offices. My neighbor's a dentist and even though he falls under the umbrella of "essential services" in Tennessee, guidance from the American Dental Association and insurers made him decide to close shop for all but emergency procedures, which constitute a tiny fraction of business for many dental practices. So "reopening" wasn't a matter of waiting on the green light from the governor or mayor but rather from a business decision professional and insurance organizations. He's obviously in a different position than your wife or the owner of a theater, spa, or tattoo parlor, whose closure was government mandated. But when your insurance carrier and accrediting agency says you're not covered if you proceed, the result's pretty much the same.

And for what it's worth, our situation is somewhat similar. My office building isn't open to the public right now, but we're operating more or less at full capacity (even if partially from our houses, where I've spent the past month working). My wife, however, works at a large nonprofit whose revenue is solely derived from guest admissions. (Think museums, zoos, aquariums, kids' science centers, etc.) They've been losing hundreds of thousands of dollars a week and have already laid off over 100 people and cut many others' salaries, including my wife's. Their reopening is probably on the same timeline as movie theaters and other entertainment venues, which, as I noted above, may have way more to do with what their attorneys and insurance agents say than the state and local government. (They, along with other similar businesses in town, closed before any "shelter at home" orders were in place.)

We're really lucky that she's still able to work (mixture of remote and in her office) and get paid even at a reduced rate. But the status quo can only last so long. I'm interested to see how things progress as places with low enough new-case rates start testing the waters.

I worked in Museums for 20 years before moving back into local government - and know a ton of people in the field throughout the southeast. This situation has hit them very hard - and they operate on very thin budgets to begin with. I was encouraged to see them being thought of in the relief packages, but I'm afraid it isn't going to be enough. A lot of really good institutions won't come back from this.

[hacker]

[tweet2]1253739683957399562[/tweet2]

Trump now saying he was being sarcastic. You can't make this shit up.

[BrunswickDawg]

This is just BS. The business isn't worse off for having the option of reopening. The PPP program doesn't have that limit. Nor does the economic injury disaster loan. I don't know of anybody with BI coverage that pays out based on whether the government closes you; that might be something that hurts a some businesses if that coverage exists. It may hurt the employee's that would rather be on unemployment if the employer disputes their unemployment claim. Not sure how states are handling that.

I'd wait and see outcomes before I'd call it BS. My wife's business has been closed since March 13 - when our local government issued emergency orders to shut down the same businesses Kemp did 2 weeks later. We have been weaving our way through the Pandemic Unemployment program - which just went live in GA 2 days ago, the EDIL thru SBA, and the PPP. I know enough about Ga Government to believe they will find every way possible to deny the unemployment benefits; EDIL has such a backlog I doubt we will even get a response. She did get approved in the first round of PPP - but 1 solid week after having been approved, our lender has gotten us nothing. No papers, just a nice email saying "you are approved, but we are overwhelmed. We don't think you will lose funding even though we are required to have it complete within 10 days. Hope we are right "

[SheltonChoked]

You say a covid test lets you know who to isolate. Are you recommending testing everyone without symptoms? Every day? That's the only way it would make sense, Because if you are only recommending testing those with symptoms, those people are isolating regardless of test results.

And how is testing for antibodies admitting everyone will get it? The screenshot sent to me today by a nurse prac (no idea how accurate) shows the transmissible rate between two people wearing masks is 1.5%. Testing for antibodies just tells people whether they need to take a cautious approach (mask) or not as they get back to work.

The data (transmissible rate with masks and antibody tests) shows we should be back at work soon. Almost time to restart America!

I'm saying we have to test everyone that wants to be off quarantine.

Positive test == isolation.

Positive antibody test == go about life as normal.

It's not that hard to do....

South Korea showed us how to handle this in January...

Sure everyone wearing masks does slow the spread, to help the completely inexcusable lack of testing...

Think of an antibody test like a pregnancy test. You don't use that for prevention.

[BeardoMSU]

You can't make this shit up.

The Onion is no longer writing satire, lol.

[defiantdog]

There's an asteroid that's going to be 16 times farther than the distance between Earth and the moon next week.

Early models are telling us that there will be a 1% death rate amongst our population while the majority will recover from the event. An extra stay at home order is in place where people need to sit in a centralized closet with a tinfoil hat on until the foreseeable future.

[Commercecomet24]

There's an asteroid that's going to be 16 times farther than the distance between Earth and the moon next week.

Early models are telling us that there will be a 1% death rate amongst our population while the majority will recover from the event. An extra stay at home order is in place where people need to sit in a centralized closet with a tinfoil hat on until the foreseeable future.

lol Rep Given!

[Johnson85]

I'd wait and see outcomes before I'd call it BS. My wife's business has been closed since March 13 - when our local government issued emergency orders to shut down the same businesses Kemp did 2 weeks later. We have been weaving our way through the Pandemic Unemployment program - which just went live in GA 2 days ago, the EDIL thru SBA, and the PPP. I know enough about Ga Government to believe they will find every way possible to deny the unemployment benefits; EDIL has such a backlog I doubt we will even get a response. She did get approved in the first round of PPP - but 1 solid week after having been approved, our lender has gotten us nothing. No papers, just a nice email saying "you are approved, but we are overwhelmed. We don't think you will lose funding even though we are required to have it complete within 10 days. Hope we are right "

Those sound like legitimate problems with those programs, but it doesn't sound like they have anything to do with whether her business is forced to be shut down or not.

And again, the unemployment I guess woudl be a different issue and will hurt employees that don't want to work b/c of corona virus unless there are special rules put in place for those cases.

[Johnson85]

The shit sandwich is a pretty good comparison. But, I think the risk is higher than the flu for my wife's business. We live in an a tourist/retirement community. Her average client is well over 65, many have health issues, many will probably not come back for a long time because of this. My wife's concerns are much more about the risk to her clients then it is about the risk to her - and making sure the environment she provides is safe.

When you are licensed and regulated by the State - which massage therapists are - then it is the job of the Governor/governments job to tell you when to be open or not. The entire reason it is a regulated industry is for health and public wellness reasons - why should it be different now?

I'm not sure how much government regulation has to do with health and public wellness reasons, particularly when it is part of an occupational licensing regime, but even given the benefit of the doubt, that doesn't mean they shoudl shut anybody down. I don't think tanning beds are a good idea and everybody getting in one is taking a risk, but if they think the benefit is worth it, I don't think it's the gov't's job to shut it down. If your wives' clients think that even at their age, they are willing to take the risk, I think that should be up to them. Maybe their back feels so tight that the only day a week they feel good is the day of or after getting a massage. I can't argue that they should feel bad everyday of the week b/c I think they are doing a poor job managing those risks versus the benefit. It seems unobjectionable to me that they should be allowed to make that decision for themselves.

[Joebob]

I'm not sure how much government regulation has to do with health and public wellness reasons, particularly when it is part of an occupational licensing regime, but even given the benefit of the doubt, that doesn't mean they shoudl shut anybody down. I don't think tanning beds are a good idea and everybody getting in one is taking a risk, but if they think the benefit is worth it, I don't think it's the gov't's job to shut it down. If your wives' clients think that even at their age, they are willing to take the risk, I think that should be up to them. Maybe their back feels so tight that the only day a week they feel good is the day of or after getting a massage. I can't argue that they should feel bad everyday of the week b/c I think they are doing a poor job managing those risks versus the benefit. It seems unobjectionable to me that they should be allowed to make that decision for themselves.

Except that every person that gets infected is then at risk of infecting other innocent people that need to be protected. Also, they possibly could then add to the burden being imposed on our health care workers. So there’s other things to think about besides an individual person’s rights.

[Cooterpoot]

Except that every person that gets infected is then at risk of infecting other innocent people that need to be protected. Also, they possibly could then add to the burden being imposed on our health care workers. So there’s other things to think about besides an individual person’s rights.

And for all those people to catch it, they were taking advantage of their freedom to do what they want. Obviously they chose the take their chance with catching it. Had they stayed home, they wouldn't have had to worry about catching it. Life is about decisions.

[Jack Lambert]

So there’s other things to think about besides an individual person’s rights.

Like the repo man and the Deputy delivering a eviction notice.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm saying we have to test everyone that wants to be off quarantine.

Positive test == isolation.

Positive antibody test == go about life as normal.

It's not that hard to do....

South Korea showed us how to handle this in January...

Sure everyone wearing masks does slow the spread, to help the completely inexcusable lack of testing...

Think of an antibody test like a pregnancy test. You don't use that for prevention.

Shelton with all due respect it's something of a miracle we even HAVE a test 4 months in, it really is. Those things normally take years. That has amazed me. Technology progresses as always,

[Liverpooldawg]

Except that every person that gets infected is then at risk of infecting other innocent people that need to be protected. Also, they possibly could then add to the burden being imposed on our health care workers. So there’s other things to think about besides an individual person’s rights.

Exactly. Your rights naturally stop at mine.....it's the interaction that causes conflict.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm not sure how much government regulation has to do with health and public wellness reasons, particularly when it is part of an occupational licensing regime, but even given the benefit of the doubt, that doesn't mean they shoudl shut anybody down. I don't think tanning beds are a good idea and everybody getting in one is taking a risk, but if they think the benefit is worth it, I don't think it's the gov't's job to shut it down. If your wives' clients think that even at their age, they are willing to take the risk, I think that should be up to them. Maybe their back feels so tight that the only day a week they feel good is the day of or after getting a massage. I can't argue that they should feel bad everyday of the week b/c I think they are doing a poor job managing those risks versus the benefit. It seems unobjectionable to me that they should be allowed to make that decision for themselves.

In my opinion that is one of the things the government actually does well. Look into how it was before the government got involved.

[confucius say]

Exactly. Your rights naturally stop at mine.....it's the interaction that causes conflict.

Then you stay home and dont have interaction with me. That is your right. And if you do, you can't get infected by me.

[Extendedcab]

It definitely is Defiant! I'm currently trying to pick up a 4-10 split at the bowling alley, while simultaneously getting a haircut and massage. Figured I'd just go ahead and knock these things out while it's open, as this state will be closed again in another month.***

In between those things, I've also started reading the Old Testament to decipher Extendedcab's diatribe...***

LOL, reading the Bible is a good thing, yes?

The point of my "narrative" was to show that all people fall short of God's standard and to only look at a persons past is useless. We ALL have things we are ashamed of in our past. As I elaborated on in my previous post was that God uses all sorts of broken people to do his will (Moses, King David, the Apostle Paul just to name a few). There was a point in their lives where God changed them (called salvation or the new birth) on the inside. God put his spirit inside of them and they became new creations, "reborn" (spiritually) to do good works. The posters slamming Trump's past refuse to acknowledge that at some point in his life he changed, he is no longer a democrat, or liberal (one in the same these days) or an adulterer. He is the most pro-family, pro-life, pro-America president we have had in many years.

Do I personally like Trump, hmm so - so, he is still a little rough on the outside. But if you do not like his personality, then look past that and look at his works. His heart is in the right place and he is protecting America from drifting from our roots, the foundation that our founding fathers laid - a constitutional republic. It is the democrats/liberals that are trying to rip the very fabric of our society apart from our roots. This is the core of the issue, not Trumps personality, however they have to pick a fight somewhere since they can not win on principles (the people would see through their falsehoods) so they attack his personality and his past and yes he does egg them on with his tweets and other verbal jabs.

[Gutter Cobreh]

LOL, reading the Bible is a good thing, yes?

The point of my "narrative" was to show that all people fall short of God's standard and to only look at a persons past is useless. We ALL have things we are ashamed of in our past. As I elaborated on in my previous post was that God uses all sorts of broken people to do his will (Moses, King David, the Apostle Paul just to name a few). There was a point in their lives where God changed them (called salvation or the new birth) on the inside. God put his spirit inside of them and they became new creations, "reborn" (spiritually) to do good works. The posters slamming Trump's past refuse to acknowledge that at some point in his life he changed, he is no longer a democrat, or liberal (one in the same these days) or an adulterer. He is the most pro-family, pro-life, pro-America president we have had in many years.

Do I personally like Trump, hmm so - so, he is still a little rough on the outside. But if you do not like his personality, then look past that and look at his works. His heart is in the right place and he is protecting America from drifting from our roots, the foundation that our founding fathers laid - a constitutional republic. It is the democrats/liberals that are trying to rip the very fabric of our society apart from our roots. This is the core of the issue, not Trumps personality, however they have to pick a fight somewhere since they can not win on principles (the people would see through their falsehoods) so they attack his personality and his past and yes he does egg them on with his tweets and other verbal jabs.

Relax chief, I was being sarcastic- hence ending my statement with these: ***

Trump is a narcissist. He doesn't give a shit about anything but his own self interest and how he is being perceived. With that said, all politicians are the same way. I'm disenfranchised when it comes to politics, but the way people blindly believe he speaks the truth is as annoying as all blacks thinking Obama had their best interest at heart.

[Joebob]

Then you stay home and dont have interaction with me. That is your right. And if you do, you can't get infected by me.

If it were that simple, we all could agree to do just that.