The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[confucius say]

You're looking at capacity, but you're leaving out the key point of supplies!

How much worse would it have been had hospitals been running without a public quarantine??? As bad as it was (and it was bad), I don't even want to imagine what that colossal shitshow would have been like.

Elective surgeries will return and at some point in the near future the feds will help healthcare again and infuse some cash.

Is there any evidence to suggests the death toll would ultimately be higher without public quarantine than it will be with public quarantine? I've seen no such data.

[Commercecomet24]

I think it's funny how left leaning people can say this now, and right leaning people defend trump for the same reasons when people blast him for not being a fortune teller and taking action earlier.

Truth is, there was a lot of uncertainty and a lot of bad decisions made, mostly by the supposed medical expert community.

This sums it up pretty well.

[Cooterpoot]

You're looking at capacity, but you're leaving out the key point of supplies!

How much worse would it have been had hospitals been running without a public quarantine??? As bad as it was (and it was bad), I don't even want to imagine what that colossal shitshow would have been like.

Elective surgeries will return and at some point in the near future the feds will help healthcare again and infuse some cash.

There was zero reason to end surgeries. Hell, major surgeries were still happening. People weren't catching COVID from those. Hospitals were isolating a couple areas for COVID. The risk was almost nothing. In MS, half the deaths have been nursing home deaths. These measures had no effect on that. And nursing homes were as close to total social distancing as you can find. No people other than workers in or out. Most people who get this don't even know it. We've had almost no deaths below the age of 59. Shutting things down at medical facilities was dead ass wrong.

[StateDawg44]

I think it's funny how left leaning people can say this now, and right leaning people defend trump for the same reasons when people blast him for not being a fortune teller and taking action earlier.

Truth is, there was a lot of uncertainty and a lot of bad decisions made, mostly by the supposed medical expert community.

But muh graphs and charts don't lie**

[Jack Lambert]

This is a kick in the nuts for both sides of the mask wearing.

I do not wear mask but I don't believe what W.H.O says and those who say we should wear mask pretty much supports the W,H.O.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-gu...virus-patients

[Gutter Cobreh]

Is there any evidence to suggests the death toll would ultimately be higher without public quarantine than it will be with public quarantine? I've seen no such data.

There was zero reason to end surgeries. Hell, major surgeries were still happening. People weren't catching COVID from those. Hospitals were isolating a couple areas for COVID. The risk was almost nothing. In MS, half the deaths have been nursing home deaths. These measures had no effect on that. And nursing homes were as close to total social distancing as you can find. No people other than workers in or out. Most people who get this don't even know it. We've had almost no deaths below the age of 59. Shutting things down at medical facilities was dead ass wrong.

My post didn't say anything about death toll or whether surgeries should have been cancelled, so not sure why both of you are not addressing my point about supplies.

Are both of you implying that all of the hospitals in MS didn't feel any effect from the lack of PPE? I'm not talking strictly about ventilators, I'm talking about gloves, masks, gowns, etc.. You know, the simple items we all took for granted.

The "just in time" inventory that a majority (if not all) of hospitals use failed because there was a run on certain items; no different than toilet paper with the general public.

The fact remains, you wouldn't have been able to run normal operations within a hospital during this time because there were no supplies, since these supplies were nonexistent.

While you contemplate your answer, will you please tell me where I can get a couple canisters of Clorox wipes???

[Cooterpoot]

Not a single hospital I deal with had issues with PPE. And the PPEs used in surgery and used in a COVID unit aren't the same.
Hell, I can go buy PPEs everyday with no problem. The government hoarded PPEs. But it's not hard to find a lot of what hospital needs.
The lack of testing was the major issue. The slow ass results from MDH. But that's all been corrected too.

[Johnson85]

Not a single hospital I deal with had issues with PPE. And the PPEs used in surgery and used in a COVID unit aren't the same.
Hell, I can go buy PPEs everyday with no problem. The government hoarded PPEs. But it's not hard to find a lot of what hospital needs.
The lack of testing was the major issue. The slow ass results from MDH. But that's all been corrected too.

Our hospital had a short term issue with non-respirator PPE. Not sure if "elective" procedures would have made it significantly worse. A lot of the issue is they were just burning through a shit ton of one time use PPE in situations where they normally wouldn't have had it.

[Commercecomet24]

There was zero reason to end surgeries. Hell, major surgeries were still happening. People weren't catching COVID from those. Hospitals were isolating a couple areas for COVID. The risk was almost nothing. In MS, half the deaths have been nursing home deaths. These measures had no effect on that. And nursing homes were as close to total social distancing as you can find. No people other than workers in or out. Most people who get this don't even know it. We've had almost no deaths below the age of 59. Shutting things down at medical facilities was dead ass wrong.

This!

[Gutter Cobreh]

Not a single hospital I deal with had issues with PPE. And the PPEs used in surgery and used in a COVID unit aren't the same.
Hell, I can go buy PPEs everyday with no problem. The government hoarded PPEs. But it's not hard to find a lot of what hospital needs.
The lack of testing was the major issue. The slow ass results from MDH. But that's all been corrected too.

Please tell me where I can find some disinfectant wipes??? Any distilleries around that you know of that switched to making hand sanitizer??? If so, why would that be if supplies were abundant?

Also, I don't know if the facilities you're referencing are rural or urban. I guess I should have clarified. If the facilities are what you'd consider rural and never had an influx initially of COVID patients, then maybe they were able to handle their inventory. The government wasn't hoarding supplies, as they didn't have them. The stockpile was empty. They did redirect supplies when they became available which further exasperated the problem.

Our hospital had a short term issue with non-respirator PPE. Not sure if "elective" procedures would have made it significantly worse. A lot of the issue is they were just burning through a shit ton of one time use PPE in situations where they normally wouldn't have had it.

This is probably what a majority of locations encountered. What I'm trying to illustrate is that the same PPE used on COVID to a certain degree is also used for all patients under isolation within a hospital (gown, mask, gloves, etc.). If there were supply chain issues just dealing with COVID, when adding back in the need for "normal operations" - it would have been a catastrophic failure.

I will acknowledge that a "one size fits all" model isn't what is needed. I think if a facility is rural and hasn't seen a lot of cases, then they can operate normally or open back up faster.

[Johnson85]

Is there any evidence to suggests the death toll would ultimately be higher without public quarantine than it will be with public quarantine? I've seen no such data.

There are models, which have been spectacularly wrong; in some cases because the models were crappy, in some cases just because we had a lot of incomplete/incorrect information, and in some cases a combination of both.

Without social distancing and lock down, the death toll at this point would have been higher from covid, higher from car wrecks and other accidents, lower from heart attack and strokes, lower from suicide, etc. and it's hard to say how all that shakes out. I don't think anybody has certain enough data to know how that all would have shaken out in net, and also, I still don't think we hvae the data to know how many COVID deaths we have avoided versus how many we have delayed.

[confucius say]

My post didn't say anything about death toll or whether surgeries should have been cancelled, so not sure why both of you are not addressing my point about supplies.

Are both of you implying that all of the hospitals in MS didn't feel any effect from the lack of PPE? I'm not talking strictly about ventilators, I'm talking about gloves, masks, gowns, etc.. You know, the simple items we all took for granted.

The "just in time" inventory that a majority (if not all) of hospitals use failed because there was a run on certain items; no different than toilet paper with the general public.

The fact remains, you wouldn't have been able to run normal operations within a hospital during this time because there were no supplies, since these supplies were nonexistent.

While you contemplate your answer, will you please tell me where I can get a couple canisters of Clorox wipes???

When you stated it would have been a lot worse, I thought you meant the impact of the virus, not supplies.

Regarding gloves, masks, and gowns, which hospitals in MS had such a shortage of those that it required shutting everything down? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. The nurses and doctors I know who work in hospitals have an abundance of those that they are stockpiling in case there is a second wave in the fall. They've sent me pics of stacks of masks.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Did they? I don't think they did. Everyone will get this stuff at some point no matter what unless a vaccine knocks it out first. Hospitals aren't going to be overrun and never were. Millions are financially ruined.

When you stated it would have been a lot worse, I thought you meant the impact of the virus, not supplies.

Regarding gloves, masks, and gowns, which hospitals in MS had such a shortage of those that it required shutting everything down? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. The nurses and doctors I know who work in hospitals have an abundance of those that they are stockpiling in case there is a second wave in the fall. They've sent me pics of stacks of masks.

Nope - not talking about the virus. My initial reply was to Cooterpoot regarding hospitals never being overrun - which I tagged above your last post. I simply stated that even if hospitals had never stopped normal operations, there were still obstacles that would have shut them down.

The lack of PPE would have prevented them from operating normally. Maybe some rural hospitals could have gotten through, but there isn't a hospital in any metro area that could have withstood it because they didn't have basic supplies to care for non-COVID patients at full capacity. At one point in the not so distant past, they coming up with SOPs on how to re-use masks, gowns, etc.. The reason is because there wasn't a supply available and the stockpile was never replenished.

I think the supply chain is easing and hospitals are stockpiling, as you suggest, because they've learned that "just in time" inventory puts them in jeopardy if this were to flare up again in the fall.

To reiterate, I'm of the belief that a "one size fits all" approach is not the best approach. What happens in Jackson is not relevant to what happens in the very rural parts of MS. We obviously know more know than we did two months ago and realize that not all cases result in the need for ventilators or even hospital admission.

We just have a few on here now that are arm-chair QB'ing this situation after the fact and that undermines the totality of what we've experienced.

[confucius say]

Nope - not talking about the virus. My initial reply was to Cooterpoot regarding hospitals never being overrun - which I tagged above your last post. I simply stated that even if hospitals had never stopped normal operations, there were still obstacles that would have shut them down.

The lack of PPE would have prevented them from operating normally. Maybe some rural hospitals could have gotten through, but there isn't a hospital in any metro area that could have withstood it because they didn't have basic supplies to care for non-COVID patients at full capacity. At one point in the not so distant past, they coming up with SOPs on how to re-use masks, gowns, etc.. The reason is because there wasn't a supply available and the stockpile was never replenished.

I think the supply chain is easing and hospitals are stockpiling, as you suggest, because they've learned that "just in time" inventory puts them in jeopardy if this were to flare up again in the fall.

To reiterate, I'm of the belief that a "one size fits all" approach is not the best approach. What happens in Jackson is not relevant to what happens in the very rural parts of MS. We obviously know more know than we did two months ago and realize that not all cases result in the need for ventilators or even hospital admission.

We just have a few on here now that are arm-chair QB'ing this situation after the fact and that undermines the totality of what we've experienced.

I agree that it's easy for folks to armchair qb now. That same thing applies to people criticizing Tate and trump too.

Question: if there was a shortage of PPE at some hospitals, where was the PPE supplies going? Other hospitals?

[Gutter Cobreh]

I agree that it's easy for folks to armchair qb now. That same thing applies to people criticizing Tate and trump too.

Question: if there was a shortage of PPE at some hospitals, where was the PPE supplies going? Other hospitals?

Where did all the toilet paper go???

I suspect supply couldn't meet the increased demand as hospitals were ramping up efforts thinking they were going to be overrun with COVID patients like Italy, but that is just my opinion. They'll eventually run through the supply they initially hoarded, but for a few weeks during March/April - there were severe shortages.

It's just evidence that we were not as prepared as we needed to be in the event of an emergency.

[confucius say]

Where did all the toilet paper go???

I suspect supply couldn't meet the increased demand as hospitals were ramping up efforts thinking they were going to be overrun with COVID patients like Italy, but that is just my opinion. They'll eventually run through the supply they initially hoarded, but for a few weeks during March/April - there were severe shortages.

It's just evidence that we were not as prepared as we needed to be in the event of an emergency.

Toilet paper? I think to peoples houses.

If some hospitals were ramping up efforts (which I read to mean stocking PPE), then those hospitals surely didn't have a shortage of PPE and could have stayed open fully. Adds to your point that it wasn't a one size fits all scenario.

It just sucks that we miscalculated things so poorly and now all these healthcare workers are being terminated.

[Liverpooldawg]

There was zero reason to end surgeries. Hell, major surgeries were still happening. People weren't catching COVID from those. Hospitals were isolating a couple areas for COVID. The risk was almost nothing. In MS, half the deaths have been nursing home deaths. These measures had no effect on that. And nursing homes were as close to total social distancing as you can find. No people other than workers in or out. Most people who get this don't even know it. We've had almost no deaths below the age of 59. Shutting things down at medical facilities was dead ass wrong.

It was also wrong for France not to invade Germany as soon as Hitler came to power. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Liverpooldawg]

Not a single hospital I deal with had issues with PPE. And the PPEs used in surgery and used in a COVID unit aren't the same.
Hell, I can go buy PPEs everyday with no problem. The government hoarded PPEs. But it's not hard to find a lot of what hospital needs.
The lack of testing was the major issue. The slow ass results from MDH. But that's all been corrected too.

No you can't. If you can please post here where. The stuff we need is still really hard to get. You flat out don't know what you are talking about here.

[Dawgfan77]

It was also wrong for France not to invade Germany as soon as Hitler came to power. Hindsight is always 20/20.

They did so in hopes to off set German invasion of Poland Poland and France were allies.
If your going to spout off something understand the principles.

To add... hitler took power in Germany in 33. Germany invaded Poland in 39. France tried to invade western Germany in 39.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Toilet paper? I think to peoples houses.

If some hospitals were ramping up efforts (which I read to mean stocking PPE), then those hospitals surely didn't have a shortage of PPE and could have stayed open fully. Adds to your point that it wasn't a one size fits all scenario.

It just sucks that we miscalculated things so poorly and now all these healthcare workers are being terminated.

The TP comment was simply used as an example of one day - it's prevalent and easy to buy; and the next day - the shelves are empty.

As Johnson85 referenced, the burn rate of PPE is high on COVID quarantined units within hospitals. I don't know how much of what was purchased was hoarded or used for those facilities treating patients.

I don't know about the miscalculation regarding population health/quarantine, but the Feds drastically misappropriated the stimulus money. We hail healthcare workers with words of support, but when their employers are swamped now in financial ruins - the handouts have stopped. The Feds need another stimulus to help health organizations (especially rural hospitals) to stay somewhat in the green for the year. Otherwise, this will have a more drastic long-term impact to those communities than this pandemic.