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Thread: The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

  1. #961
    Senior Member hacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StateDawg44 View Post
    So what if they are misleading or aren't 100% accurate or don't paint the full picture? In this case partly because of the small sample size.

    Do they benefit all or only one side? Or do they harm the collective end goal and all the in-betweens on how to attain that goal?
    I don't know where you're going with this. I posted "good" stats earlier. I have no side. I don't know why people get so offended by actual facts and numbers. Denial?

    Speaking of good numbers:

    Italy reports 4,790 new cases of coronavirus and 602 new deaths.

    Those are down two days in a row.

  2. #962
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    Anybody else agree that we do need to be making more products here in the USA? Curious what kind of effect this has....

  3. #963
    Senior Member WeWonItAll(Most)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Anybody else agree that we do need to be making more products here in the USA? Curious what kind of effect this has....
    Medical supplies and drugs at least, yes. What amount of the production? No idea.
    Far Moorhead yaw

  4. #964
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    Over the past two decades, I have spent a good amount of time in Saskatchewan duck hunting. During these week long visits, I have had a discussion with several Canadians regarding their health care system. Never, not one, ever said they would love to trade their health care system for ours. None. Keep in mind that these were rural, working class people.
    I?m sure that those Canadians who can afford to go to M. D. Anderson do so. It is hands down the best cancer treatment hospital in the world.
    If one is very wealthy, our system is better. If you are not wealthy, ours will suck you dry. That is sad.
    On a positive note, following this pandemic, we will begin a process to reform our system.

  5. #965
    Senior Member hacker's Avatar
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    Italy's lockdown appears to be helping:

    March 18: 4207 cases, 475 deaths
    March 19: 5322 cases, 427 deaths
    March 20: 5986 cases, 627 deaths
    March 21: 6557 cases, 793 deaths
    March 22: 5560 cases, 651 deaths
    March 23: 4789 cases, 601 deaths

    They locked down on March 10th, took around 10 days for it to be noticeable

  6. #966
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacker View Post
    Italy's lockdown appears to be helping:

    March 18: 4207 cases, 475 deaths
    March 19: 5322 cases, 427 deaths
    March 20: 5986 cases, 627 deaths
    March 21: 6557 cases, 793 deaths
    March 22: 5560 cases, 651 deaths
    March 23: 4789 cases, 601 deaths

    They locked down on March 10th, took around 10 days for it to be noticeable
    Do they release number of tests per day? It would be real interesting to have test total for each of those days too

  7. #967
    Senior Member WeWonItAll(Most)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulldogDX55 View Post
    America is starting to put out healthcare priority guidelines for when it gets Italy bad here in about a week

    https://www.npr.org/2020/03/21/81964...YBwGyYk3rwbLGU
    The article says that hospitals always have triage guidelines in place just in case, and that hospitals will likely be revisiting and updating them in case they need to be used.
    For now, U.S. hospitals are unsure whether their triage guidelines will be needed in the coronavirus pandemic, but they must brace for the possibility.
    No where does it say that its going to be Italy bad in a week.

    Last week you said it would be "Italy bad" in about a week. This week you're saying its a week away. Meanwhile the mortality rate peaked at 1.5% about 5 days ago and has sat around 1.2% since then. I'm not saying its not going to trend up some in the coming days/weeks, but what information are you seeing or using to determine that we're a week away from catastrophe?
    Far Moorhead yaw

  8. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadheaddawg View Post
    Nope. They guy I am talking to obviously feels very strongly about bankruptcies. He insulted another poster parents over it. He said another posters parents had poor work ethics over it.

    So I am curious to hear his answer. He obviously feels very strongly about bankruptcies and the work ethic of those that do it. He called it cheating and bad for capitalism. He obviously has strong opinions on it

    I asked him a valid question after his posts. He can answer for himself
    I am not going down the rat hole you are digging, you can come up with your own conclusions based on your own conscience.

    But I will say, in the initial transaction, where debt was incurred, there was a promise to repay the creditor. There are other ways to repay a debt than to file for bankruptcy. You can work with the person/company you owe and negotiate a payment plan. This way the creditor gets their money back over time. Some call bankruptcy smart money management, as was noted (questioned?) in a previous post, and others don't.

    What is being overlooked is that business is based on TRUST. The promise principle is the basis of business (contract law) which is the principle by which persons may impose on themselves obligations where none existed before. You do not have to place yourself under a promise or obligation, it is voluntary, you are not forced to buy a particular product or service. When you go to a restaurant and order a meal, this is a contract - informal but non the less enforceable by law, incase you skip out on paying. Most everything we do in life involves a contract of some sort whether formal in writing or informal - verbal - but again it is voluntary, you have a choice in a free society like the US. If people start skipping out on their promises/obligations, then trust is violated and the whole system in which mankind has systematically improved his material condition (standard of living) will collapse.

    And yes there are hardships in ones life as well, my parents, along with me and my sister, were in a severe car accident (head on collision) that took months to recover from. Most every family has hardships of one sort or another, unless you live in an ivory tower or in a bubble. By the grace of God we adapt and overcome and do the best we can under the circumstances.

  9. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Anybody else agree that we do need to be making more products here in the USA? Curious what kind of effect this has....

    Yes, I believe that if you register as an American company then you better have not only your headquarters but manufacturing and sales/support in the US as well. This is not socialism as the government is not running any businesses but only guarunteeing a US company will have its operations in the US. If they do not want to do that, then have them register as a foreign country and move there. Then the US will impose import taxes on their goods, to make the foreign made good more expensive than the American made product (at least this is the theory).

    It has come down to a national security issue. Our country is at risk, especially in times of an emergency - like this one for example.

  10. #970
    Senior Member hacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Do they release number of tests per day? It would be real interesting to have test total for each of those days too
    Approx:

    March 18: 17k
    March 19: 17k
    March 20: 24k
    March 21: 27k
    March 22: 25k
    March 23: 17k

  11. #971
    Senior Member StateDawg44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacker View Post
    I don't know where you're going with this. I posted "good" stats earlier. I have no side. I don't know why people get so offended by actual facts and numbers. Denial?

    Speaking of good numbers:

    Italy reports 4,790 new cases of coronavirus and 602 new deaths.

    Those are down two days in a row.

    I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm asking questions.

    You accuse me of getting offended when I've openly said I'm not trying to get at anything to start our conversation off. I could accuse you of getting defensive with that type of comment. I don't want that though. It works both ways but I'm trying to have a conversation without insulting. You've done a pretty good job of not getting personal and slinging mud with others throughout this thread. That's why I'm not trying to be a smartass or prove anything with you as I have attempted with others.

    I'm also not criticizing your numbers as much as I am trying to figure out how reliable you feel like they are. You've been consistent and provided where you got your info. My gf is an engineer so I am very aware of how much yall get into and enjoy numbers. I just feel like there is currently a very very fine line of good information and information that may not be 100% true or truly determined YET. Numbers and stats are great and are usually very telling. But so many of these comparisons are not equal. How do you find that balance?

    I guess what message are you trying to convey by posting your Italy numbers in comparison to America? Where is the line drawn of one is an apple and one is an orange? How do you tie the two together to make them relatable?

    I don't need you to explain how predicted trajectories work or exponential growth works. Only people who think this is nothing need that explanation. I don't fall into that category like a few others want to claim if you don't see eye to eye with them.

    Again, I'm not saying they are bogus. It's just not a similar comparison.

  12. #972
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacker View Post
    Approx:

    March 18: 17k
    March 19: 17k
    March 20: 24k
    March 21: 27k
    March 22: 25k
    March 23: 17k
    March 18: .247 (positive)
    19: .313
    20: .249
    21: .243
    22: .222
    23: .282

  13. #973
    Senior Member yjnkdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacker View Post
    Delaware, Ohio, Louisiana, and now Michigan have issued stay at home orders since yesterday, basically shutting down the entire economy. California, NY, Pennsylvania did the same last week. I imagine ours is coming soon.

    What are you basing this on? Because if you were somebody actually in the know, you would definitely not be making this type of comment before an official announcement. All these assumptions, predictions or whatever that ya'll are making just scares the crap out of people when they come on here. Just like the continual death rate posts.
    Last edited by yjnkdawg; 03-23-2020 at 01:48 PM.

  14. #974
    Senior Member StateDawg44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjnkdawg View Post
    What are you basing this on? Because if you were somebody actually in the know, you would definitely not be making this type of comment before an official announcement. All these assumption, predictions or whatever that ya'll are making just scares the crap out of people when they come on here. Just like the continual death rate posts.
    Expect responses like this is what "experts" are saying.

    And "sources".


    And this is no jab at Hacker. I'm trying to understand his side of things.

  15. #975
    Senior Member hacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjnkdawg View Post
    What are you basing this on? Because if you were somebody actually in the know, you would definitely not be making this type of comment before an official announcement. All these assumptions, predictions or whatever that ya'll are making just scares the crap out of people when they come on here. Just like the continual death rate posts.
    That one was actually "pure speculation" -- we were a few days behind Louisiana when they closed schools as well.

  16. #976
    Senior Member hacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StateDawg44 View Post
    I guess what message are you trying to convey by posting your Italy numbers in comparison to America? Where is the line drawn of one is an apple and one is an orange? How do you tie the two together to make them relatable?
    I think that the Asian countries are obviously the floor of what could've happened here, and right now I'm tracking Italy and Spain as the ceiling.

    I know that our fatality rate is ~1.3% right now which is obviously way better than Italy and Spain, but I think the deaths are going to start climbing higher and higher, especially as hospitals start to get stressed. We are starting to test a lot of people, so that also factors accordingly into the fatality rate.

    I don't post Italy and Spain's numbers because I think that's where we WILL end up, I post them because I think that's where we COULD end up. I do think our current trajectory is more in line with Spain and Italy than say, South Korea or even Germany. I am curious about Germany and how few deaths they've had but haven't found any good info on why yet.

    But when it boils down to it, I guess the main reason I'm posting at all is to try to convince y'all to stay the **** home so we don't end up like Italy
    Last edited by hacker; 03-23-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  17. #977
    Senior Member Commercecomet24's Avatar
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    Coming from an infectious disease doctor that I spoke with last week. DO NOT USE Italy as a measuring stick in any way regarding this. Extremely old population, socialized health care, antiquated facilities and equipment in most places, still trying to recover from flu season that hit them hard, and a bad economy, was a perfect(imperfect)storm for them.

  18. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacker View Post
    Approx:

    March 18: 17k
    March 19: 17k
    March 20: 24k
    March 21: 27k
    March 22: 25k
    March 23: 17k
    They do not test anyone under 30 unless they become serious.

  19. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg View Post
    They do not test anyone under 30 unless they become serious.
    We aren't testing anyone under 100.4 (temp) unless they're a basketball player or politician. What's your point?
    Last edited by hacker; 03-23-2020 at 02:37 PM.

  20. #980
    Senior Member yjnkdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commercecomet24 View Post
    Coming from an infectious disease doctor that I spoke with last week. DO NOT USE Italy as a measuring stick in any way regarding this. Extremely old population, socialized health care, antiquated facilities and equipment in most places, still trying to recover from flu season that hit them hard, and a bad economy, was a perfect(imperfect)storm for them.

    Great point CC. Also what occurs in Italy, New York, etc, doesn't necessary mean it will happen in rural Smith or Greene county Mississippi. It could but no guarantee.

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