The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[Gutter Cobreh]

It's amazing that people still don't get it.

Give $2,000 to someone poor and $2,000 to a business, which one recirculates into the economy quicker.

But nooooooooo we need to bailout business and let people do non-essential jobs in the name of trickle down economics.

If you seriously can't see the issue there then you are a blind sheep plain and simple.

I fail to see what point you are making. This was a partly good move. My point is that reopening is motivated by taking that away. (Not solely motivated, but that is a contributing factor. Can't let poor people have more money than normal.)

Not even being facetious to you, cause you're at least willing to not be an imbecile about this. I seriously don't understand your point.

My point was that individuals are getting $2k and were a part of the stimulus package. Who recirculates it quicker is irrelevant, as the fact remains that the money for both businesses and individuals were created out of thin air anyway.

To redistribute wealth, government has to either borrow or tax. The politicians have decided to mortgage the future by borrowing.

I will add though that Bezos donated $100 million to Feeding America, and our local food bank received $400k of that donation. It's a drop in the bucket for him, but it will make a huge impact on those folks struggling for food where I live. You think that if the government had taxed Amazon and had that on hand - you think they would have allocated those funds to help those struggling with food insecurity?

[Jack Lambert]

Man do I feel fortunate! I just made the cut as Generation X'er and not a boomer! It was close but I made it in, blessed! lol

Boomers got us to the moon along with the help of NAZI's we didn't hang.

[Johnson85]

It's simple. We kill the batman. ***

(Then we kill the rest of the rich too.) ***

But no it starts with redistribution of wealth. Flat Tax. (Yes I know Bernie has a different plan. Mine would be a true flat tax with no loop holes. That goes for business income too (NOT NET INCOME)).

That sounds great, but defining business income is not easy. We certainly have some unjustifiable handouts buried in the tax code, but most of what people complain about being tax breaks are just normal, everyday accounting conventions. If you try to just convert it into a revenue tax, then you crush capital intensive industries, a lot of which are sort of important.

Also, this does not redistribute wealth. We have a progressive tax system right now, and moving to a flat tax would make it less progressive on average. Not necessarily a bad thing, just an FYI that it seems contrary to your stated goal.

Free Basic Healthcare (Ability to opt out and get better coverage).

OK. I would disagree, but Medicaid for all and people that want better coverage can opt out or buy additional coverage is fine.

Free College.

We don't need free college, it's expensive enough as it is. I can't imagine how many more productive years would be wasted chasing degrees that don't make people more productive if there was no economic consequence for it. Plus this is a sop to a minority of the population that are generally more privileged than average.

Erase Student debt.

Another sop to the relatively well off.

Ofc you can opt out and go private (just like primary education). Legalize marijuana and tax it too.

great.

The only real social issue we should be discussing is abortion. More research into what it means to be a human and what makes a human a human. I'm strictly pro-life, but what does that mean? What does it mean to be a human and alive. (And for the other side I do believe in self-defense and that some abortions are necessary for the mother's survival.)

I think there are relevant social issues in addition to abortion, and more research isn't going to meaningfully help resolve the issue, but yes, if people would actually respect the role of government and reduce it's scope, it would make a lot of the other social issues irrelevant or at least easier to deal with. Get out of the business of regulating marriage and just recognize civil unions and get rid of all the penalties for marriage and subsidies. For the tax code, let all allowances/deductions/income limits be double and people can choose to file as a civil union or individually. Get rid of ridiculous subsidies in social security for single earner marriages (and having multiple people claim spousal benefits for one spouse). Do that and same-sex marriage is really nobody's business. But for a lot of other social issues, and even the same-sex ones, you'd have to get out of the business of providing a lot of services (like public schools) to really get them out of the political debate.

Make the debate about actual economic policy and not stupid social issues. Guns is the only one that's really fair to be discussed and have as a part of government debate. (It's shocking to me how many people are pro-gun and anti-marijuana. The only argument for either of them is the exact same: I like it, so the government shouldn't take it away from me if I'm not misusing it.)

Well, that argument and the little insignificant detail where one is protected explicitly by the constitution and the other isn't. But pulling back Raich and Wickard v. Filburn so that the Commerce clause can only be used to regulate actual interstate commerce and not intrastate marijuana business would be great.

Once you start working towards redistributing wealth, creating a UBI (key word BASIC, this income would not help fund vacations to the bahamas for everyone), and advancing society to more and more automation, we'll be A. more productive as a society and B. be overall happier as we've decreased the workload for people and provider more people economic viability. The steps we take from there are TBD, but that's the basic outline.

It's extremely tough to make the numbers for UBI work even if you ignore away the political impossibility of getting rid of social security, medicare, and other welfare programs. You can't make UBI work with medicaid for all and definitely can't make it work while also taxing enough to pay for Medicaid for all and also having the federal government provide or pay for college educations.

[Extendedcab]

A lot of what I put in that post was dripping with reversed boomer arguments. (Charlie in the Chocolate Tree for example). Illustrating how stupid they sound when talking about how tough and great they were compared to today's generation. Today's generation grew up in worse economic conditions and outclasses them in their own metrics.

But to go point by point. I believe the government should serve the people and not the business. If we're bailing out the business to save the people, then cut out the middle man. Easy step.

Thank you for being someone who can see fault in both sides. I respect that.

My complaints that are invalid are the same ones that are invalid for boomers. I'll let them figure out which ones sarcasm and making fun of them.

Bezos is taking my money. My tax dollars help him. As long as business can get tax subsidies and write-offs that my dollars help fund, I will complain about it.

I'm one of the rare breeds who isn't in a "non-marketable" degree (and still has some but not near as much bad debt as it could have been), but I still give a damn about this.

The accountant bit was a subtle boomer ribbing. Your talking more to the business owner than you are to the common man. My uncle is an accountant. I know the merits of the position. I also know that it's rich to listen to someone tell you how to water your yard that pays someone else to tend to their crops.

You have no earthly idea what you are taking about. Did you live in that generation - no, but I did!! Why do you continually spew that same old self centered, pious, communist propaganda and outright lies as though it were the truth! You are talking through your Ass!! It is pure and simple dribble!

Here you are talking (typing) from an air conditioned and heated office/living space with food and drinks at your convinience and all the creature comforts of a King and you want to compare that to growing up in an earlier generation? What a pompous ass!! Not everybody grew up with a silver spoon in their mouth or in a city, some like me and most others I know in my generation (yes, a baby boomer - and DAMN PROUD of it, I know from which my help cometh) came from very humble beginnings.

Compare your situation today with:

Growing in a tar paper shack with 3 rooms, maybe 600 square feet max
Manual labor for a living - outside - dad was an electrical lineman and then an electrician (through home study course to help himself)
No running water
No bathroom - toilet, tub or shower
No central air-conditioning or heating - in southwest MS on the MS river no less
No TV
No freezer for long term food storage - refrigerator only
No 2 car family for Dad and Mom, just 1 old junky car for both parents
No fancy clothes
No fancy shoes - Nike or other popular brand at the time
No telephone - nearest phone was 4 miles down the road at a store

But we did have:

- An outhouse
- Had a keep pot (you can look that up yourself)
- A box fan mounted in the exterior wall for air movement
- Space heater for warmth in the winter - 2 in the house
- High water britches - as the year wore on and we outgrew our clothes
- Food on the table
0 - Because we had a garden for vegatables - we canned a lot
0 - Because we fished -
0 - Because we hunted for meat (deer, turkey, quail, dove, duck, geese, squirrels, rabbits and other)
0 - Because we raised chickens and pigs
Radio - that my dad built
Love in the family
Both parents
Moral compass
Christian values
Ethics

Try walking in those shoes for a mile and then see if you hold the same ignorant conclusion! Oh, wait you can't, you can't roll back time and grow up in those conditions, that ship has already sailed for you. So when those, like me or others, tell you what it was like growing up before your time, you had better get your head out of your ass and listen.

And before you ask, I knew you wouldn't, this was rhetorical, I would not trade my upbringing and the values (proven over 2000 years of history) instilled in me for anything!! My lifestyle and beliefs provide the basis of my self worth unlike you who get it from the government.

Now spew your worthless rebuttal, comrade!!

[BrunswickDawg]

Boomers got us to the moon along with the help of NAZI's we didn't hang.

No offense Jack, but the oldest Boomers were 24 when we landed on the moon. The Greatest Generation got us to the moon, after they were done kickin the Nazi's asses.

[Extendedcab]

It's simple. We kill the batman. ***

(Then we kill the rest of the rich too.) ***

But no it starts with redistribution of wealth. Flat Tax. (Yes I know Bernie has a different plan. Mine would be a true flat tax with no loop holes. That goes for business income too (NOT NET INCOME)). Free Basic Healthcare (Ability to opt out and get better coverage). Free College. Erase Student debt. Ofc you can opt out and go private (just like primary education). Legalize marijuana and tax it too. The only real social issue we should be discussing is abortion. More research into what it means to be a human and what makes a human a human. I'm strictly pro-life, but what does that mean? What does it mean to be a human and alive. (And for the other side I do believe in self-defense and that some abortions are necessary for the mother's survival.)

Make the debate about actual economic policy and not stupid social issues. Guns is the only one that's really fair to be discussed and have as a part of government debate. (It's shocking to me how many people are pro-gun and anti-marijuana. The only argument for either of them is the exact same: I like it, so the government shouldn't take it away from me if I'm not misusing it.)

Once you start working towards redistributing wealth, creating a UBI (key word BASIC, this income would not help fund vacations to the bahamas for everyone), and advancing society to more and more automation, we'll be A. more productive as a society and B. be overall happier as we've decreased the workload for people and provider more people economic viability. The steps we take from there are TBD, but that's the basic outline.

You want everybody to be alike with no exceptionalism only mediocrity with no ambition!! Take from those who can and give to those who WON'T. I don't begrudge anyone who makes more money than I do. I became an Engineer/Entrepreneur because that is what I wanted to be, I accept the salary and other incentives I have earned. If I wanted more money, then I would do something different like be a lawyer or doctor or politician, no I could not stoop that low, or some other vocation. That is one thing that makes the US great, is that YOU get to decide where in the societal ladder you want to reside. It is called FREEDOM, something you do not understand! Go comrade go!!

[Commercecomet24]

Boomers got us to the moon along with the help of NAZI's we didn't hang.

Jack I hope you know I was being sarcastic. There are great people and terrible people in everyone of these so called "generational groups".

[Gordon Gekko]

I know when y'all like when I post positive stuff! NY is doing great! Don't look at the other part though

That sure is a scary looking graph when you don?t account for population differences.

[Gordon Gekko]

I think this salon/barber bullshit is the silliest thing we've done. Let people make a choice.

If it pleases the crown, may I please get a haircut

[Homedawg]

That sure is a scary looking graph when you don?t account for population differences.

I want to know where it came from It doesn't match JH data. I'm not saying its wrong but it doesn't match.

[dawgday166]

Boomers got us to the moon along with the help of NAZI's we didn't hang.

LOL .. That's a good one Jack.

ETA: Brunswick had a good point.

[Joebob]

Here’s what happens when you don’t follow the stay at home orders.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ls/3087316001/

[Johnson85]

Here’s what happens when you don’t follow the stay at home orders.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ls/3087316001/

Politicians tried to warn her of the dangers.

[msstate7]

Here’s what happens when you don’t follow the stay at home orders.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ls/3087316001/

+1 to the covid19 death total

[BrunswickDawg]

LOL .. That's a good one Jack.

ETA: Brunswick had a good point.

Well, you know those damn Boomers try to take credit for everything!****

[dawgday166]

Well, you know those damn Boomers try to take credit for everything!****

Yea ... they do LOL.

[dantheman4248]

That sounds great, but defining business income is not easy. We certainly have some unjustifiable handouts buried in the tax code, but most of what people complain about being tax breaks are just normal, everyday accounting conventions. If you try to just convert it into a revenue tax, then you crush capital intensive industries, a lot of which are sort of important.

Also, this does not redistribute wealth. We have a progressive tax system right now, and moving to a flat tax would make it less progressive on average. Not necessarily a bad thing, just an FYI that it seems contrary to your stated goal.

OK. I would disagree, but Medicaid for all and people that want better coverage can opt out or buy additional coverage is fine.

We don't need free college, it's expensive enough as it is. I can't imagine how many more productive years would be wasted chasing degrees that don't make people more productive if there was no economic consequence for it. Plus this is a sop to a minority of the population that are generally more privileged than average.

Another sop to the relatively well off.

great.

I think there are relevant social issues in addition to abortion, and more research isn't going to meaningfully help resolve the issue, but yes, if people would actually respect the role of government and reduce it's scope, it would make a lot of the other social issues irrelevant or at least easier to deal with. Get out of the business of regulating marriage and just recognize civil unions and get rid of all the penalties for marriage and subsidies. For the tax code, let all allowances/deductions/income limits be double and people can choose to file as a civil union or individually. Get rid of ridiculous subsidies in social security for single earner marriages (and having multiple people claim spousal benefits for one spouse). Do that and same-sex marriage is really nobody's business. But for a lot of other social issues, and even the same-sex ones, you'd have to get out of the business of providing a lot of services (like public schools) to really get them out of the political debate.

Well, that argument and the little insignificant detail where one is protected explicitly by the constitution and the other isn't. But pulling back Raich and Wickard v. Filburn so that the Commerce clause can only be used to regulate actual interstate commerce and not intrastate marijuana business would be great.

It's extremely tough to make the numbers for UBI work even if you ignore away the political impossibility of getting rid of social security, medicare, and other welfare programs. You can't make UBI work with medicaid for all and definitely can't make it work while also taxing enough to pay for Medicaid for all and also having the federal government provide or pay for college educations.

There's a lot of good in this post. I think what it boils down to is that we have a difference of opinion on whether we should stick with something we know isn't working versus switching to something new that isn't soundproof. There isn't a perfect system. Otherwise someone would utilize it. That is the problem when someone says "let's hear your plan." They put it as "we'll break yours down too." Well no shit. There's problems with it like there is problems with what we have now. But I think it will strive us on the whole to be better. But really, the first part of any problem is...... admitting there's a problem. It's crazy how many people can't even reach that step.

To touch on the gun thing. The second amendment is just that. An amendment. It can be changed. See: Amendments 18 and 21.

[basedog]

If it pleases the crown, may I please get a haircut

Got a haircut today, she came to the house.

[basedog]

Well, you know those damn Boomers try to take credit for everything!****

You got that backward Brunswick. LOL oh I would say "women take credit, all ages"**

[dantheman4248]

.

You have no earthly idea what you are taking about. Did you live in this generation - no, but I did!! Why do you continually spew that same old self centered, pious, capitalist propaganda and outright lies as though it were the truth! You are talking through your Ass!! It is pure and simple dribble!

Here you are talking (typing) from a self-owned air conditioned and heated office/living space with food and drinks at your convinience and all the creature comforts of a King and you want to compare that to growing up in an later generation who has already gone through 2 major economic crises and will likely never as a group be able to own land or soon even inhabit parts of it? What a pompous ass!! Hardly anybody grows up with a silver spoon in their mouth, some like me and most others I know in my generation (yes, a millennial - and DAMN PROUD of it, I know from which my help cometh) came from very humble beginnings.

Compare your situation back then with:

Growing in an apartment with 1 room, maybe 600 square feet max
Manual Labor can't even provide you a living hardly anymore
Poisoned running water (Flint Michigan, 8 years strong)
Exorbitant water bills adding to the pile of debt. (Not like you can buy land and live without it.)
Paying for central air-conditioning/heating - in southwest MS on the MS river no less where it's hard to afford luxuries
Nonstop fake news being spread (from both sides)
No freezer for long term food storage - refrigerator only <--- Got me here. Man we got freezers. So lucky.
No 2 car family for Dad and Mom, just 1 old junky car for both parents if you're lucky
No fancy clothes
No fancy shoes - Nike or other popular brand at the time
Crazy telephone bills - can't do most jobs without one and the bills are outrageous while the companies break their contract and pay pennies as penalties

But we do have:

- The rich using us as an outhouse to shit all over constantly
- Can't keep pot
- A box fan mounted in the exterior wall for air movement that we rent
- Space heaters that we rent for warmth in the winter - 2 in the house that we rent
- Food on the table
0 - Because we maxed a credit card
0 - Because we couldn't afford food this month with our bills
0 - Because we can't get a decent paying job
0 - Because we were raised by selfish pricks who hoard wealth and keep everything to themselves
iPod - that my dad paid for with his credit card debt to give us tunes to drown out our sorrows
No love in the family because the generation before us made it damn near impossible to afford to even get married
Neither parent or one parent because inevitably a boomer was a PoS or their healthcare system made it unviable for one to stay with the other and if they did when that one passed they ended up miles deep in debt
Moral compass - we care about the future
Values - we actually think that other humans are... human.
Ethics - we care about people's happiness and don't try to prevent them from enjoying life.

Try walking in those shoes for a mile and then see if you hold the same ignorant conclusion! Oh, wait you can't, you can't de age yourself and grow up in those conditions, that ship has already sailed for you. So when those, like me or others, tell you what it was like growing up after your time, you had better get your head out of your ass and listen.

And before you ask, I knew you wouldn't, this was rhetorical, I would not trade my upbringing and the values (proven over 2000 years of history) instilled in me for anything!! My lifestyle and beliefs provide the basis of my self worth unlike you who get it from daddy capitalism giving you a gold nugget.

Now spew your worthless rebuttal, mr. monopoly!!