Willie Gay just bent the Combine over...

[Todd4State]

I notice you didn't mention any passing or receiving numbers. That was the problem. Was it lack of talent or scheme? No way to know. I do know one FACT, you ain't gonna line it up and run over SEC defenses enough to win a championship anymore. You have to have a credible passing game. We did not have it under Joe.

It was lack of discipline for the most part. The precision simply was rarely there. Nick was the all-time SEC leading rusher at QB. Kylin would go on to lead the SEC in rushing. Guidry did well at the combine. Farrod was a serviceable TE and Aeris was a very good running back who rushed for 1K in the SEC. Jenkins has done well in the NFL and Daryl Williams and Tyre Phillips will be NFL players as well off the o-line. Joe had a lot to work with but I don't believe he pushed Nick enough to get better as a passer and I think if he had sat people like Guidry some for dropping passes I bet they would have gotten a lot better at catching the ball. I think Joe's "top five" or whatever he called it also limited what we could do on offense because with him you're just using those five guys a majority of the time and I think that year we could have used guys like Nick Gibson more than we did and that would have helped us a team more. At MSU we have to use everything that we've got to succeed. He also should have thrown the ball more to Kylin and Aeris wasn't bad catching the ball either.

So, I guess I would say it was discipline number one, followed by some scheme inflexibility number two, and then yeah I agree about what you said about being able to pass the ball competently and Nick always struggled with that and that was a factor. I think the WR drops were a byproduct of poor discipline for the most part.

The best offenses I've ever seen IMO- Walsh's 49ers, Coryell's Chargers, Vermeil's Rams, and Leach's all have one thing in common- they all focused on getting the ball in the hands of multiple players. Limiting it to just five people just isn't very wise.

[Todd4State]

Seem a few have had negative texts and tweets about him and I?m disappointed. I don?t know details of the fight but I hope he understands his opportunity and appreciates it.

You can't expect him to behave the way he did when he was here and then have some people NOT say negative things about him. It comes with the territory when you're in the spotlight and I highly doubt he is even paying attention to that. He made mistakes and he has moved on and we all should move on as well.

And I hate to re-hash everything but it wasn't JUST the fight. If that was the case I think the fans wouldn't have been nearly as hard on him as they were. It's the combination of multiple incidents as well as what was reported about how the fight went down along with fan frustration towards Joe about the lack of discipline.

[Dawgcap]

You can't expect him to behave the way he did when he was here and then have some people NOT say negative things about him. It comes with the territory when you're in the spotlight and I highly doubt he is even paying attention to that. He made mistakes and he has moved on and we all should move on as well.

And I hate to re-hash everything but it wasn't JUST the fight. If that was the case I think the fans wouldn't have been nearly as hard on him as they were. It's the combination of multiple incidents as well as what was reported about how the fight went down along with fan frustration towards Joe about the lack of discipline.

Great last 2 post. I agree with most. My point is I?m gonna support a guy that didn?t get that from the staff that coached him. He played like he was coached to be. So I don?t totally fault Gay except for the tutor situation. Though I?m thinking that is a situation that goes on everywhere.
I?ve said this before but I think in the south you have players that have to be held to a different standard because in high school they are the guy. They get away with shit because they are the best in a small market. They get to college and they have never had to compete on the practice field or work in the classroom because they have always been elite athletes. These are the guys that MUST have stronger discipline. If not they fall back in to the trap of feeling entitled because they are the answer. The problem is we recruit players that have always been dominant and then we expect them to establish a work ethic they have never needed.

[Really Clark?]

I notice you didn't mention any passing or receiving numbers. That was the problem. Was it lack of talent or scheme? No way to know. I do know one FACT, you ain't gonna line it up and run over SEC defenses enough to win a championship anymore. You have to have a credible passing game. We did not have it under Joe.

If Joe?s offense averaged the same points per game in 2018 as it did in 2017, with the majority of the offense that returned, we win at least 11 games in 2018. Just do as good as the year before in scoring with that 2018 defense and we have no problem winning 11 games.

[Todd4State]

Great last 2 post. I agree with most. My point is I?m gonna support a guy that didn?t get that from the staff that coached him. He played like he was coached to be. So I don?t totally fault Gay except for the tutor situation. Though I?m thinking that is a situation that goes on everywhere.
I?ve said this before but I think in the south you have players that have to be held to a different standard because in high school they are the guy. They get away with shit because they are the best in a small market. They get to college and they have never had to compete on the practice field or work in the classroom because they have always been elite athletes. These are the guys that MUST have stronger discipline. If not they fall back in to the trap of feeling entitled because they are the answer. The problem is we recruit players that have always been dominant and then we expect them to establish a work ethic they have never needed.

The tutor gate stuff was the last thing on the list I was down on Gay about. Obviously others were involved and I believe we over-punished ourselves. I sit behind our bench at our home football games and I have personally watched Gay get into one of our assistant coach's face after Gay got a personal foul and the assistant tried to reprimand Gay. Joe was nowhere to be found to support his coach.

What you are talking about is an issue with players at every SEC school. Especially with younger players. Older players like Gay should not act that way. I don't 100% fault him because it was obviously allowed although he also should have known better too. And yes we should expect THE COACH to establish work ethic and discipline. We're paying them millions of dollars to run our program and I don't think any MSU fan was proud of how Joe ran our program on multiple levels- forget fight and suspensions, how about simply looking somewhat organized and prepared on game day? And then he had the gall to call the fans out for calling him out about it? He really could have been fired after the Egg Bowl based on his behavior at his press conference alone and it would have been justified. I wouldn't have been totally surprised if Cohen would have fired him even with a bowl win just based on the Gay/Shrader incident alone plus the multiple suspensions and then who knows what else hasn't gotten out that was going on. we'll never know because the bowl loss was the coup de grace.

[Todd4State]

If Joe?s offense averaged the same points per game in 2018 as it did in 2017, with the majority of the offense that returned, we win at least 11 games in 2018. Just do as good as the year before in scoring with that 2018 defense and we have no problem winning 11 games.

I feel like we've been in the football Twilight Zone ever since the 2017 Egg Bowl until we hired Leach. Its just been weird. Especially last year. Tutor Gate. Shrader's helicopter. Burrow moons us. Tua dislocates his hip. The Piss and Miss. The Gay/Shrader fight. And somehow we ended up with Mike Leach.

[Dawgcap]

The tutor gate stuff was the last thing on the list I was down on Gay about. Obviously others were involved and I believe we over-punished ourselves. I sit behind our bench at our home football games and I have personally watched Gay get into one of our assistant coach's face after Gay got a personal foul and the assistant tried to reprimand Gay. Joe was nowhere to be found to support his coach.

What you are talking about is an issue with players at every SEC school. Especially with younger players. Older players like Gay should not act that way. I don't 100% fault him because it was obviously allowed although he also should have known better too. And yes we should expect THE COACH to establish work ethic and discipline. We're paying them millions of dollars to run our program and I don't think any MSU fan was proud of how Joe ran our program on multiple levels- forget fight and suspensions, how about simply looking somewhat organized and prepared on game day? And then he had the gall to call the fans out for calling him out about it? He really could have been fired after the Egg Bowl based on his behavior at his press conference alone and it would have been justified. I wouldn't have been totally surprised if Cohen would have fired him even with a bowl win just based on the Gay/Shrader incident alone plus the multiple suspensions and then who knows what else hasn't gotten out that was going on. we'll never know because the bowl loss was the coup de grace.

I hung with the coaching staff way longer than I should then I saw more signs that told me this is not all a talent iss, scheme issue it was a discipline issue. Me and my son saw it early the first year but I think the d kept us from believing it totally. Knoxville this year hurt my feelings. But we just kept crumbling. I went to 8 games this year and couldn?t grasp it was happening but Nashville was it. The team was in disarray. Thank goodness Cohen made the change.
Look I understand people hating on Willie Gay but he doesn?t deserve near the heat he is catching.

[Cooterpoot]

The tutor gate stuff was the last thing on the list I was down on Gay about. Obviously others were involved and I believe we over-punished ourselves. I sit behind our bench at our home football games and I have personally watched Gay get into one of our assistant coach's face after Gay got a personal foul and the assistant tried to reprimand Gay. Joe was nowhere to be found to support his coach.

What you are talking about is an issue with players at every SEC school. Especially with younger players. Older players like Gay should not act that way. I don't 100% fault him because it was obviously allowed although he also should have known better too. And yes we should expect THE COACH to establish work ethic and discipline. We're paying them millions of dollars to run our program and I don't think any MSU fan was proud of how Joe ran our program on multiple levels- forget fight and suspensions, how about simply looking somewhat organized and prepared on game day? And then he had the gall to call the fans out for calling him out about it? He really could have been fired after the Egg Bowl based on his behavior at his press conference alone and it would have been justified. I wouldn't have been totally surprised if Cohen would have fired him even with a bowl win just based on the Gay/Shrader incident alone plus the multiple suspensions and then who knows what else hasn't gotten out that was going on. we'll never know because the bowl loss was the coup de grace.

You realize Gay is one of the players that called out Morehead and the coaches for not doing their jobs right? Granted, he failed the team too for tuturgate, but he'd seen enough from the Morehead regime. Obviously he wasn't one of the slackers that didn't workout and he easily could've been since he couldn't play. He busted Shraders eye because he. deserved it. Shrader started some BS he shouldn't have. More lack of control by Morehead. Gay played with passion and a mean streak. Most of you guys complaint about us not having enough of that.
I didn't care for him getting on Twitter, but he was frustrated like all of us.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I notice you didn't mention any passing or receiving numbers. That was the problem. Was it lack of talent or scheme? No way to know. I do know one FACT, you ain't gonna line it up and run over SEC defenses enough to win a championship anymore. You have to have a credible passing game. We did not have it under Joe.

Right, cause if we didnt have the passing game to win the SEC (ie be one of the best 2 teams in the country) then KOdawg isnt justified in being upset at 8-5. Because 8-5 and 13-0 are the same.

JoMo had the best defence in the country, one of the most talented OLs in the country, and THE most proven backfield in the country. 8-5 with that is pathetic.

I agree 12-0 would be an unrealistic expectation because of our lack of passing. But 10-2 was completely doable. You can argue 9-3 and look like a top 20 team in the bowl game would have been ok.

But 8-5 was pathetic, and the O had enough talent to be way better than it was

[Lance Harbor]

Truth

We're gonna look back one day and remember we had a defense with Simmons, Sweat, Abram, Dantzler, and Gay, and it's going to cause us to hate JoMo even more for losing 5 games with them.

[R2Dawg]

Did I say he didn't have players? I think you guys are seriously misunderstanding what I'm saying.

You are right. Any comment that hints at defending Joe seems to draw out those who were pounding sand and kicking rocks.

[Walkerhill]

We're gonna look back one day and remember we had a defense with Simmons, Sweat, Abram, Dantzler, and Gay, and it's going to cause us to hate JoMo even more for losing 5 games with them.

I blame Cohen rather than Joe. Of course you take the job and the millions if you are Joe.

If Cohen had not elected to commit dramatically changing offensive philosophy at the most inopportune moment is Mississippi State football history, we would have been in the CFP discussion.

[Todd4State]

You realize Gay is one of the players that called out Morehead and the coaches for not doing their jobs right? Granted, he failed the team too for tuturgate, but he'd seen enough from the Morehead regime. Obviously he wasn't one of the slackers that didn't workout and he easily could've been since he couldn't play. He busted Shraders eye because he. deserved it. Shrader started some BS he shouldn't have. More lack of control by Morehead. Gay played with passion and a mean streak. Most of you guys complaint about us not having enough of that.
I didn't care for him getting on Twitter, but he was frustrated like all of us.

Yeah I remember posting on here multiple times that I wanted our players to play with so much passion and a mean streak that they continually got ejected games.** Yeah- play with passion but also play under control. No one on here or any other MSU fan on any other MSU platform wants our players getting personal fouls or doing anything that hurts the team. Except Willie Gay's fans apparently.

You can spin it and say that he called out the staff but he just didn't respect them. And yeah that's totally 100% Joe's fault. If he had a problem with the staff do what Mangum and the baseball team did with Cann and go to Cohen about it. And the classroom is also part of your job as a college football player. Sounds to me like he should have spent more time there instead of slacking off there and I'm not just talking about Tutor Gate.

Yeah Shrader totally deserved getting knocked out of a game and having his career put in jeopardy because he told Gay that a hit in practice would have been a personal foul in a game. LOL. I'm glad you're not a judge. At any rate you don't hurt the QB in practice. Lawrence Taylor never did that to Phil Simms and we all know what a douchebag Simms is. Let Gay do that to Brady with the Las Vegas Raiders when he signs with them later and let's see how Gruden handles it or whatever NFL team Gay plays on even if Brady deserves it. If what you are saying is really the case then the MSU mouthpieces would have been defending Gay and none of them did. Read between the lines on that.

You can make all the excuses for him you want but at the end of the day he's a guy that needed some discipline and Joe didn't do it. Period. But he also made some poor decisions and he cost himself money and got called out by the fans because of it. He got what he deserved and it's over now. Move on.

[Todd4State]

I blame Cohen rather than Joe. Of course you take the job and the millions if you are Joe.

If Cohen had not elected to commit dramatically changing offensive philosophy at the most inopportune moment is Mississippi State football history, we would have been in the CFP discussion.

Or if we hired Leach. It would have a been a dramatic shift in offensive philosophy but we probably land Minchew. Nick would have probably entered the portal and a lot of fans wouldn't have liked that at all especially considering how Fitz's career would have ended in the Egg Bowl. It would have been a different what if for MSU. I hope Leach makes up for some of the disappointing seasons we've had lately.

[RocketDawg]

Yep and you didn't have to worry about Gay giving effort on every play either. I think he has a big pro career. Another Bulldog star in the league.

That's true. He was always playing his best, and I think will do pretty well in the NFL.

[BeastMan]

And that means exactly what for the offense? Yeah we had a great D, the offense was not great. The talent was not close on that side of the ball. This ain't defending Joe, it's just stating fact. If you can't score it doesn't matter how good the D is. If we would have had a better O in '99 that was REALLY our year, not 2018.

One would think that if you inherit the best defense in the SEC, an offensive genius would be able to support that. Particularly, an offense that had a few NFL guys on the OL, at RB, & a solid college QB. JoMo was and is a total scam artist. His offense was a joke, his program culture was a joke, and he was an asshole to the fans. I hope he fails everywhere he goes from here on out. He?s a joke

[msstate7]

One would think that if you inherit the best defense in the SEC, an offensive genius would be able to support that. Particularly, an offense that had a few NFL guys on the OL, at RB, & a solid college QB. JoMo was and is a total scam artist. His offense was a joke, his program culture was a joke, and he was an asshole to the fans. I hope he fails everywhere he goes from here on out. He?s a joke

Amen.

[Commercecomet24]

One would think that if you inherit the best defense in the SEC, an offensive genius would be able to support that. Particularly, an offense that had a few NFL guys on the OL, at RB, & a solid college QB. JoMo was and is a total scam artist. His offense was a joke, his program culture was a joke, and he was an asshole to the fans. I hope he fails everywhere he goes from here on out. He?s a joke

Very well said and accurate!

[BeardoMSU]

One would think that if you inherit the best defense in the SEC, an offensive genius would be able to support that. Particularly, an offense that had a few NFL guys on the OL, at RB, & a solid college QB. JoMo was and is a total scam artist. His offense was a joke, his program culture was a joke, and he was an asshole to the fans. I hope he fails everywhere he goes from here on out. He?s a joke

That defense was ready made for a 10 or 11 win season (or more)....all Joe had to do was NOT suck on offense...but his own suck-magnitude was so strong, he couldn't help it. Its like he's a black-hole of sucktitude....

[Coach34]

Was it his fault? I'm not so sure and never will be. Anyone that is, knows nothing about athletics,

You are insane. The offense returned 8 starters from a group ranked in the mid-40?s the previous year
JoVester made that group into a mid-70?s offense.

If you can?t see it was indeed his fault- YOU don?t know anything about sports