Remember when om thought they had a basketball program...

[OLJWales]

Unreal... The Stands Cult is amazing ..

No Cult. It's about players putting 100% effort and leaving it all on the floor. We are greatly appreciative of what Howland brings to the State Hoops team. He's got a great resume with a name that resonates with top quality players and gets them into coming to State. That part is totally way awesome.

But he has not performed at the level of numerous teams with equal or less talent. UGA is the only team I can think of at the moment that is wasting talent at the level Howland has been doing . It needs to stop now and I think / hope it can.

[BB30]

No Cult. It's about players putting 100% effort and leaving it all on the floor. We are greatly appreciative of what Howland brings to the State Hoops team. He's got a great resume with a name that resonates with top quality players and gets them into coming to State. That part is totally way awesome.

But he has not performed at the level of numerous teams with equal or less talent. UGA is the only team I can think of at the moment that is wasting talent at the level Howland has been doing . It needs to stop now and I think / hope it can.

He hasn't wasted talent IMO. Our 4 and 5 star type players came in extremely raw. Perry was fairly polished but Woodard was extremely raw, just an incredible athlete that is still learning to play. it isn't like we have had KY type classes with lottery picks all over the roster. Our guys have to develop a bit more than other big time signees and programs. We haven't signed a legit 1 and done yet under Howland.

His guys need a bit more coaching up and they have progressed as the season had come along just as last years team did.

[KentuckyDawg13]

No, don't remember. They've always sucked.

[StarkVegasSteve]

You're kinda fired up about this ain't ya? LOL

No worries. You're right about it being like Stans last 4 or 5 years, but it's not like his 1st 4 or 5. And I didn't care at all for Stans' last 4 or 5 years. I don't like to see primadonnas like Gordon dribbling around the last 3 or so minutes of every game launching shot after shot to win game and never making any of them. Some guys like to think they MJ and ... they just ain't. In either case tho Stans never made it past 1st weekend of NCAAT.

Howland should do that this year with this team and probably should win or come in 2nd in SEC with this roster. Probably dug too big a hole for that to happen now tho. In my particular case ... I'm not getting crazy excited just yet. I'm waiting to see if a true turnaround has happened.

So Stans first 5 years for comparison and Rick took over a team two years removed from the Final 4.

Year 1- 20-13....NIT 1st Round
Year 2- 14-16.....No Postseason
Year 3- 18-13.....NIT Quarterfinals
Year 4- 27-8.....NCAA 2nd Round
Year 5- 21-10......NCAA 1st Round


Howland's First 5 years and he took over for Rick Ray

Year 1- 14-17.....No Postseason
Year 2- 16-16.....No Postseason
Year 3- 25-12.....NIT Semifinal
Year 4- 23-11.....NCAA First Round
Year 5- 11-6...….?


So through their first 4 years Stans had one more NIT appearance and one more NCAA tournament win than Howland. You could argue that Howland has gotten a few bigger names than Stansbury has but so has everyone else. The one and done rule has greatly changed how we need to look at college basketball. They both won games they shouldn't and have both lost games they had no business losing.

[dawgday166]

So Stans first 5 years for comparison and Rick took over a team two years removed from the Final 4.

Year 1- 20-13....NIT 1st Round
Year 2- 14-16.....No Postseason
Year 3- 18-13.....NIT Quarterfinals
Year 4- 27-8.....NCAA 2nd Round
Year 5- 21-10......NCAA 1st Round


Howland's First 5 years and he took over for Rick Ray

Year 1- 14-17.....No Postseason
Year 2- 16-16.....No Postseason
Year 3- 25-12.....NIT Semifinal
Year 4- 23-11.....NCAA First Round


So through their first 4 years Stans had one more NIT appearance and one more NCAA tournament win than Howland. You could argue that Howland has gotten a few bigger names than Stansbury has but so has everyone else. The one and done rule has greatly changed how we need to look at college basketball. They both won games they shouldn't and have both lost games they had no business losing.

Good post ... I was off on that one. I was thinking along the lines of 2001 thru 2005 but you right ... Stans era began before that.

ETA: Just for the record I'm not on a fire Howland bandwagon with some others. I do think he can coach this team better than he has been tho. Ben has done this a time or 2 before.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Good post ... I was off on that one. I was thinking along the lines of 2001 thru 2005 but you right ... Stans era began before that.

ETA: Just for the record I'm not on a fire Howland bandwagon with some others. I do think he can coach this team better than he has been tho. Ben has done this a time or 2 before.

I will agree that Howland does need to start hitting on all this talent we're bringing. We've got to be able to get some of these guys to stay. That's what made those Stans teams so good. Players like Zimmerman, Patterson, Austin, Bowers, and Frazier stayed 3- 4 years. And our transfers in Roberts and Powers were absolute home runs. If I had a knock on Howland that would be it. We've got to get more guys to stay longer than 2 years. It would be massive if Perry stayed for a 3rd year, but I just don't see it happening.

[DawgFan85]

Remember when something "special" was going on in Oxford with Kermit and men's basketball last year? Now they are waiting on baseball season to start as their men and women have joined Vanderbilt in the cellar of the SEC and are 0 for the conference.

[timotheus]

Kermit has a legit shot at going O for 8 or more in the conference.

[Ari Gold]

I will agree that Howland does need to start hitting on all this talent we're bringing. We've got to be able to get some of these guys to stay. That's what made those Stans teams so good. Players like Zimmerman, Patterson, Austin, Bowers, and Frazier stayed 3- 4 years. And our transfers in Roberts and Powers were absolute home runs. If I had a knock on Howland that would be it. We've got to get more guys to stay longer than 2 years. It would be massive if Perry stayed for a 3rd year, but I just don't see it happening.

Get more guys to stay ??
Then he better stop recruiting and trying to get NBA level talent.

[Ari Gold]

Remember when something "special" was going on in Oxford with Kermit and men's basketball last year? Now they are waiting on baseball season to start as their men and women have joined Vanderbilt in the cellar of the SEC and are 0 for the conference.

Won last year with AK’s guys..
not saying he won’t get the job done , but all the Kermit honks are rather quiet these days.

[smootness]

I will agree that Howland does need to start hitting on all this talent we're bringing. We've got to be able to get some of these guys to stay. That's what made those Stans teams so good. Players like Zimmerman, Patterson, Austin, Bowers, and Frazier stayed 3- 4 years. And our transfers in Roberts and Powers were absolute home runs. If I had a knock on Howland that would be it. We've got to get more guys to stay longer than 2 years. It would be massive if Perry stayed for a 3rd year, but I just don't see it happening.

First of all, the game has changed and guys are simply leaving earlier on average than they did 15+ years ago.

Second, and more important, most of the guys you listed were never on the NBA's radar. Zimmerman and Austin were drafted but were never going to be solid 1st round picks themselves. Austin barely played in the NBA and Zimmerman never did.

[Ari Gold]

No Cult. It's about players putting 100% effort and leaving it all on the floor. We are greatly appreciative of what Howland brings to the State Hoops team. He's got a great resume with a name that resonates with top quality players and gets them into coming to State. That part is totally way awesome.

But he has not performed at the level of numerous teams with equal or less talent. UGA is the only team I can think of at the moment that is wasting talent at the level Howland has been doing . It needs to stop now and I think / hope it can.

Wasting talent??

[OLJWales]

Wasting talent??

Yea, it's called not getting what would be expected outta whatcha got. He's developed a pattern of not competing on a level at which his talent level would expect.

And the wasting of talent has become the new norm. There is NO damned excuse for us to not have won ONE damn game in the NCAA Tourney outta Howland.

He has under performed to this point and the numbers back it up. There has been ZERO Grind from his players. NONE.

[Ari Gold]

Yea, it's called not getting what would be expected outta whatcha got. He's developed a pattern of not competing on a level at which his talent level would expect.

And the wasting of talent has become the new norm. There is NO damned excuse for us to not have won ONE damn game in the NCAA Tourney outta Howland.

He has under performed to this point and the numbers back it up. There has been ZERO Grind from his players. NONE.

Just stop. And go follow Western Kentucky..

[OLJWales]

Just stop. And go follow Western Kentucky..

Not kissing Stans' ass. I'm just stating statistical facts regarding Howland's tenure thus far. His performance based on talent level has been below sub-par. Demanding that he, his staff and players put forth 100% effort is not being over demanding. It should be expected.

I'm hoping the tenure to date ends up mattering not. I'm hoping he does what he's paid to do RIGHT NOW and all will be forgiven. We've waited too long, time for some action.