Leach will be a disaster...

[DLGDawg]

But he's a proven winner...in the Big 12 and PAC 12. He would fit right in with the SEC West. Plus the most important thing, He will be entertaining in interviews.*

I know Leach is a good coach. My point is that where our program is right now vs where it was when Mullet left is why Moorhead was fired. Right? I feel that we need a different type of leader at this point.
Leach is entertaining, quirky, rain man ish. Is that the type man that will bring our program back up to where we want it?? Gain the respect of the players? I don't know the answer.
In my humble opinion, Leach is not the answer AT THIS TIME.

When Mullet left, I would have been all for Leach. Certain standards were set in place. I think Leach could have at least maintained that.

[smootness]

Yeah and Mumme flamed out and went 2-9 just 2 years later and was removed.

So it sounds like Leach was pretty instrumental to the success.

[Really Clark?]

So it sounds like Leach was pretty instrumental to the success.

And the massive cheating that busted them in just 2 years.

[Spiderman]

Yeah and Mumme flamed out and went 2-9 just 2 years later and was removed. Guy Morriss was the replacement who also worked developing the offense and lasted 2 years (went to Baylor and bombed as well).

Also, I have yet to see one person allude to the fact that large a part of the reason they did get better and the offense improved was the fact that Mumme and the staff put UK on probation for huge recruiting violations including paying players. They were also tied up in the Albert Means saga. They came in hot with illegal benefits and it got them 5, 6, 7, 2 wins under Mumme.

They went down offensively when Leach left. In the book, Perfect Pass, they talk about how Leach was Mumme's security blanket.

That when Mumme, who was a 2 back guy at heart, wanted to get conservative or go back to his old ways, it was Leach in his ear saying NO. Be more aggressive. Take more chances. Don't be scared to try it. And Mumme would push the limits even more.

One thing you can say about Leach, he is fearless when it come to coaching

[Really Clark?]

You can pull numbers out of context with the best of them.

They won 1, 4, and 4, games in the 3 years preceding those two. Than 7-5 year was better than the 13 years that preceded it and the 7 years that followed it.

If anything, the success of that offense even back in the late 90's proves the offense would do just fine in today's SEC.

Massive paying of recruits did more of that than just the offense

[Spiderman]

Massive paying of recruits did more of that than just the offense

That was after Leach had left and was one rouge assistant with just a couple of players. You really ought to research that and see that Mumme probably should have sued folks over that deal. It was a wild story

[Tbonewannabe]

Exactly, his recruiting is 44-60, and he still wins. Now imagine what he could do here with top 20-30 classes.

We need an offensive guy who can put up points against anyone. Given even a decent DC, our defense will always be fairly good due to where we are. Look at the talent that comes out of Mississippi, and specifically to State over the last 20 years, the state is an absolute hotbed for defensive recruiting. That talent isn't going anywhere, it's in the state every year. We need a coach who can bring in what we don't already home grow organically, which is an elite passing game.

The more I think about Leach, the more I am warming up to him. I am just so damn scared to get another "offensive genius" whose offense doesn't work in the SEC.

Napier's offense is very similar to Mullen's offense. Sark has been in the SEC for a while now. Grantham knows the SEC well and supposedly will bring a guy to run the spread like Mullen. Hudspeth runs a version of the spread and we kind of know what he would do. Leach just seems like a wild card. The wild card can win for you or randomly cut your brakes and jump out of the back of the van (Always Sunny reference for anyone interested).

[Really Clark?]

They went down offensively when Leach left. In the book, Perfect Pass, they talk about how Leach was Mumme's security blanket.

That when Mumme, who was a 2 back guy at heart, wanted to get conservative or go back to his old ways, it was Leach in his ear saying NO. Be more aggressive. Take more chances. Don't be scared to try it. And Mumme would push the limits even more.

One thing you can say about Leach, he is fearless when it come to coaching

Oh I don’t disagree but the buying of recruits was a big part of how they went to 7 wins as quickly as they did. And Morriss wasn’t on the same level as Leach. Not even close but Kentucky thought he could get it back. I just want everyone to have context of how that 7-5 team...that was their best team, was actually built. Leach is a great offensive mind and they set records but that wasn’t the only reason they got to 7-5.

[smootness]

And the massive cheating that busted them in just 2 years.

Yeah, because Kentucky was swimming in football talent in 97-98.

They went 2-9 in 2000 before the sanctions came down. They weren't recruiting well.

[smootness]

Oh I don’t disagree but the buying of recruits was a big part of how they went to 7 wins as quickly as they did. And Morriss wasn’t on the same level as Leach. Not even close but Kentucky thought he could get it back. I just want everyone to have context of how that 7-5 team...that was their best team, was actually built. Leach is a great offensive mind and they set records but that wasn’t the only reason they got to 7-5.

So give me the recruits they brought in after Mumme was hired that were instrumental to that 1998 team.

[Spiderman]

Oh I don’t disagree but the buying of recruits was a big part of how they went to 7 wins as quickly as they did. And Morriss wasn’t on the same level as Leach. Not even close but Kentucky thought he could get it back. I just want everyone to have context of how that 7-5 team...that was their best team, was actually built. Leach is a great offensive mind and they set records but that wasn’t the only reason they got to 7-5.

They didn't have anyone that good except Couch, and he was recruited by the previous staff.

And the players they inherited from Curry were all recruited to play in a 2 and 3 back offense that ran the I Bone.

[Tbonewannabe]

They didn't have anyone that good except Couch, and he was recruited by the previous staff.

And the players they inherited from Curry were all recruited to play in a 2 and 3 back offense that ran the I Bone.

In your opinion, do we have the players currently on the team that would do well in Leach's offense? Our QBs other than Will Rogers are probably more of the run first type of QB. Would it take another year of recruiting to get his type of players?

[smootness]

In your opinion, do we have the players currently on the team that would do well in Leach's offense? Our QBs other than Will Rogers are probably more of the run first type of QB. Would it take another year of recruiting to get his type of players?

It would certainly take a year or two for the offense to start really clicking. The question is simply whether he is the right guy long-term, not necessarily whether or not the success in 2020 would be maximized.

[Spiderman]

In your opinion, do we have the players currently on the team that would do well in Leach's offense? Our QBs other than Will Rogers are probably more of the run first type of QB. Would it take another year of recruiting to get his type of players?

I do, to an extent. GS's accuracy concerns me. And that's Leach's big deal with QB's. Rogers being a freshman is a concern. But with the WR's we have coming in plus Williams and Payton, and the 2 redshirts, I think we would be fine. If you can catch, you will play. An intriguing guy would be Cumbest at the Y position. He looks like the great ones Leach has has had at that position. Problem is he seems to be more about baseball. If Hill doesn't come back, I think it would fit Witherspoon. He's more of a space player.

I will say Hill could be special in it. As much as Leach throws to the RB.

Here is the deal, look at our roster and tell me what coach is gonna put up big numbers? Especially if Hill is gone.

[Tbonewannabe]

I do, to an extent. GS's accuracy concerns me. And that's Leach's big deal with QB's. Rogers being a freshman is a concern. But with the WR's we have coming in plus Williams and Payton, and the 2 redshirts, I think we would be fine. If you can catch, you will play. An intriguing guy would be Cumbest at the Y position. He looks like the great ones Leach has has had at that position. Problem is he seems to be more about baseball. If Hill doesn't come back, I think it would fit Witherspoon. He's more of a space player.

Here is the deal, look at our roster and tell me what coach is gonna put up big numbers? Especially if Hill is gone.

I don't know but I do know we have a lot more options to do well if we run the spread that Mullen installed. We have 3 QBs that could run the power spread and do well, I am not sure we have a QB that would do "well" in Leach's system. Of course that could also be said of Sark's offense, although he did well with Hurts.

If you told me that next year would be a 5 win season with Leach and then would be 8-11 win seasons after then I would be ok with it. The problem would be if we are getting blown out, would the fans stay until 2021. Today's culture doesn't want to wait. Some people think we were too quick with Moorhead and he had two years of shitty offensive results in SEC games. If we struggled against NC State right out the gate next year then it would be rough.

[Santiago]

They didn't have anyone that good except Couch, and he was recruited by the previous staff.

And the players they inherited from Curry were all recruited to play in a 2 and 3 back offense that ran the I Bone.

I think I read that Couch was considering transferring from Kentucky until Mumme and Leach entered the scene there. So they are the reason that Couch stayed.

[smootness]

I don't know but I do know we have a lot more options to do well if we run the spread that Mullen installed. We have 3 QBs that could run the power spread and do well, I am not sure we have a QB that would do "well" in Leach's system. Of course that could also be said of Sark's offense, although he did well with Hurts.

If you told me that next year would be a 5 win season with Leach and then would be 8-11 win seasons after then I would be ok with it. The problem would be if we are getting blown out, would the fans stay until 2021. Today's culture doesn't want to wait. Some people think we were too quick with Moorhead and he had two years of shitty offensive results in SEC games. If we struggled against NC State right out the gate next year then it would be rough.

I can assure you, Mike Leach will put up better offensive numbers, at least by year 2, than anybody else we could possibly hire.

[Really Clark?]

That was after Leach had left and was one rouge assistant with just a couple of players. You really ought to research that and see that Mumme probably should have sued folks over that deal. It was a wild story

What? Franklin testified that if it was wide spread and occurred before and after Bassett and that the administration was complicit and wanted it all to fall on Bassett. Mumme state’s that Bell and the Admin wanted everything tied to Bassett and it was in the university’s best interest. The NCAA cut a bunch of deals with Ark, TN, GA, and Kentucky to nail the Albert Means case. Even with that they still got hit hard losing 19 scholarships and bowl eligibility. And it wasn’t a few athletes but over a dozen listed in the NCAA report and we know how that goes and how many there really were.

[Spiderman]

I think I read that Couch was considering transferring from Kentucky until Mumme and Leach entered the scene there. So they are the reason that Couch stayed.

He was. Dumbass Curry was trying to make him a option QB.

Here's another Leach story that shows how he ticks...

Couch was the Top QB in the nation. Mumme and Leach were at Valdosta St. Leach comes in and asks Mumme if he can go recruit Couch.

Mumme about laughs him out of the office. Leach insists and Mumme says go ahead. Mumme said Leach recruited him like they were Notre Dame.That Leach was fearless and wasn't worried about being shunned.

Of course Couch wasn't gonna go, but he was intrigued by what they were doing. So when they got hired at Kentucky, Couch, because he knew Leach and knew what they were gonna do, stayed at KY. Mumme said he wasn't sure if Couch would have stayed without the prior contact.

So you never know.

[smootness]

What? Franklin testified that if it was wide spread and occurred before and after Bassett and that the administration was complicit and wanted it all to fall on Bassett. Mumme state’s that Bell and the Admin wanted everything tied to Bassett and it was in the university’s best interest. The NCAA cut a bunch of deals with Ark, TN, GA, and Kentucky to nail the Albert Means case. Even with that they still got hit hard losing 19 scholarships and bowl eligibility. And it wasn’t a few athletes but over a dozen listed in the NCAA report and we know how that goes and how many there really were.

Regardless, they weren't able to make the players they had work nearly as well either before or after Leach.