What Level Of Winning Does MSU Need to Achieve To Breakthrough in Recruiting?

[ShotgunDawg]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?

[Outsider]

None of this matters. The above mentioned teams are allowed to outright cheat and buy players (Cam Newton, Alabama player's cars, etc.) 5* athletes don't go to teams to sit on a bench for two years but that's exactly what is happening at Alabama. So, winning is not the answer. There are haves and have nots. I do not think this will ever change.

[ShotgunDawg]

None of this matters. The above mentioned teams are allowed to outright cheat and buy players (Cam Newton, Alabama player's cars, etc.) 5* athletes don't go to teams to sit on a bench for two years but that's exactly what is happening at Alabama. So, winning is not the answer. There are haves and have nots. I do not think this will ever change.

This is a solid opinion that I am beginning to lean towards as well.

I want to feel like we are closing the gap, but I'm not so sure we are.

[DogsofAnarchy]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?

1. We have won enough now and we are recruiting fine. Continue to win and we will continue to recruit better players.

2. I dont know what “Recruiting issues” you’re talking about. It’s not like we have finished outside the top 25 or 30 much. The top 5 teams are all pretty even, then the next 30 are all pretty even. It comes down to coaching.

3. Yes. The “Blue Bloods”as you call them cheat like hell. You see what happened to Ole Miss when their attempt to “break in” to the recruiting elite was check mated.

Bottom line: You’re vastly over analyzing recruiting. Get this in your head....If a guy commits to MSU and he is a 3 Star...he stays a 3 Star.....If a 3 Star commits to the “Blue Bloods”, he is soon a 4 Star. That’s a damn fact. Coaching is more important and winning cures your recruiting. Add a little marketing by the University to really pump some of our players and recruiting will be fine.

[Jack Lambert]

If we can sign 8 t 10 four stars every year and not any less then 3, we will be good.

[ShotgunDawg]

1. We have won enough now and we are recruiting fine. Continue to win and we will continue to recruit better players.

2. I dont know what “Recruiting issues” you’re talking about. It’s not like we have finished outside the top 25 or 30 much. The top 5 teams are all pretty even, then the next 30 are all pretty even. It comes down to coaching.

3. Yes. The “Blue Bloods”as you call them cheat like hell. You see what happened to Ole Miss when their attempt to “break in” to the recruiting elite was check mated.

Bottom line: You’re vastly over analyzing recruiting. Get this in your head....If a guy commits to MSU and he is a 3 Star...he stays a 3 Star.....If a 3 Star commits to the “Blue Bloods”, he is soon a 4 Star. That’s a damn fact. Coaching is more important and winning cures your recruiting. Add a little marketing by the University to really pump some of our players and recruiting will be fine.

I prefaced everything with "top 15 recruiter". I defined the level of recruiting I was speaking of.

Finishing in the top 25-30 is not the discussion here.

[Rayburn8]

State wins 10 games this year they have a great shot at Dean and that will go a long way in recruiting. This season is huge for so many reasons.

[Outsider]

Do you understand just how ridiculous it is that Alabama has had so many #1 recruiting classes? They had #1 classes in 2008 & 2009, 2011-2014, and 2016 & 2017. So, in the past 10 years they have only had 2 years that they were not hauling in the undisputed #1 class. One of those years, 2014, they had the #2 class. It's not only coaching winning all of those games. It's hauling in the best athletes in the country that is causing them to win all of those games. It's simply not a level playing field. What should happen is that this should be suspicious, along with the players always driving new cars. They need to put an investigator in Tuscaloosa for 5 years and just see what they find. But that will never happen.

[calidawg]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?

You're equating recruiting success too much towards winning. We have nothing to sell to any elite offensive skill players because we have 0 in the NFL. We recruit at a very high level on the D-Line because that is an easy sell for us (plus there is a surplus of d-line talent in MS). O-Line talent is scarce in MS to begin with. Only reason we are in it with Emory was the Saquon Barkley connection with new coaches, but as a program we don't put RB's in positions to succeed in NFL (Boobie was a career special teams player). If you look at where we lack elite talent it's where we don't put players in the league. Exception is CB. We've done a terrible job of recruiting elite CB's and we have had some proven recent success there.

[ShotgunDawg]

You're equating recruiting success too much towards winning. We have nothing to sell to any elite offensive skill players because we have 0 in the NFL. We recruit at a very high level on the D-Line because that is an easy sell for us (plus there is a surplus of d-line talent in MS). O-Line talent is scarce in MS to begin with. Only reason we are in it with Emory was the Saquon Barkley connection with new coaches, but as a program we don't put RB's in positions to succeed in NFL (Boobie was a career special teams player). If you look at where we lack elite talent it's where we don't put players in the league. Exception is CB. We've done a terrible job of recruiting elite CB's and we have had some proven recent success there.

Did Florida already steal Dak?*

We've done really well at LB, so why isn't Dean really interested in us & why are we behind on Hall?

Additionally, what matters more, if the coaches have developed an NFL RB or if the school has developed an NFL RB?

Lastly, if kids really do care about this & base their decisions on such, how do you break into getting the top recruits at that position? The cycle just continues right? 5 star choose blue blood, which allows blue blood to add another NFL player as an alumnus, which leads to getting another 5 star

[calidawg]

Did Florida already steal Dak?*

We've done really well at LB, so why isn't Dean really interested in us & why are we behind on Hall?

Additionally, what matters more, if the coaches have developed an NFL RB or if the school has developed an NFL RB?

Lastly, if kids really do care about this & base their decisions on such, how do you break into getting the top recruits at that position? The cycle just continues right? 5 star choose blue blood, which allows blue blood to add another NFL player as an alumnus, which leads to getting another 5 star

Clearly I wasn't including QB as an offensive skill player. You have to convince the 5 star to step out on a limb and trust the coaches/program. It's not easy to do. Coaches come and go. It's about the program. Dean and Hall are interested in us. You can't expect us to lead on all elite players.

[JunkyardDog]

1. When we win 10 games every year, finish at least 3rd in the Sec West, win 1 huge game per year, beat Ole Miss 75% of the time or better, act like winners, talk like winners, stop bragging about perceived success in the media (other people will brag on us if we deserve it, and bragging only makes your opponent seem good enough to deserve acknowledgment), make 2 NY6 bowls in a row and win at least one of the two, and secure 75% or more of the top 25 players in Mississippi every recruiting cycle.

2. No issues in recruiting so far. A 5 star running back in LA should be headed to LSU. Good WRs need to see us throw deep.

3. We are locked out right now but not for long. Ole Miss tried to cheat too much and too soon. Your program must be good before trying to recruit great. They were 4-8 and 7-6 before getting a top 10 class. Good luck explaining that.

[ShotgunDawg]

1. When we win 10 games every year, finish at least 3rd in the Sec West, win 1 huge game per year, beat Ole Miss 75% of the time or better, act like winners, talk like winners, stop bragging about perceived success in the media (other people will brag on us if we deserve it, and bragging only makes your opponent seem good enough to deserve acknowledgment), make 2 NY6 bowls in a row and win at least one of the two, and secure 75% or more of the top 25 players in Mississippi every recruiting cycle.

2. No issues in recruiting so far. A 5 star running back in LA should be headed to LSU. Good WRs need to see us throw deep.

3. We are locked out right now but not for long. Ole Miss tried to cheat too much and too soon. Your program must be good before trying to recruit great. They were 4-8 and 7-6 before getting a top 10 class. Good luck explaining that.

Outstanding post.

Thank you for putting forth some thought & not just reacting as if all is well & it's the fans fault for trying to figure this thing out.

As for your point #3, how much longer do feel we will be locked out? If we won the West this year would make a big difference?

If winning is so important, why does A&M get to recruit so well or is their recruiting simply a case of their location?

[Cooterpoot]

Winning doesn't matter. Winning championships does matter. We haven't won jack.

[JunkyardDog]

Perception. A&M has the most money in the SEC, I think. Helps when people think there is no reason kids would NOT want to go there. Big college town (or city, not sure) too. Compare to Starkville where outsiders think it is a trash heap of a town that kids can’t enjoy. A&M also beat Bama and had Manziel.

[gravedigger]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?

2 ways:

1. either JoeMo garners the respect that anyone he recruits is a 5 Star or get a coach like that.

2. Hire someone on the inside of each recruiting service to falsely pump the Star counts of the kids who ultimately sign with us.

[JunkyardDog]

Ole Miss has no relevant championship history in the conference and fake nattys, also reasons they were waxed by the NCAA. Perception makes or breaks your team. Zero to hero puts you back at zero.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I think the bigger issue is that we need some of the skill guys to perform better. We have one Whop, Guildry, Williams, or Hill just go out of their mind this year and get into All SEC NCAA All American status and you will see future prospects take notice.

Now Moorhead cannot do it for them. We need one of those guys to become the next Julio Jones or Todd Gurlie. That is the best way to get other guys to look our way.

[BrunswickDawg]

Getting MSU to an elite recruiter status is a multi-generational process - maybe as long as 25 years.
The first 10 years have essentially been completed via Dan - build a consistent winning football team, bowl game is an expectation not an exception, build a dark-horse team every 4-5 years of very experienced talent. This is what the current generation of recruits knows us as. My 17 y.o. and 19 y.o. barely remember us sucking - they really only remember me yelling at the TV and a football game being on.

The second 10 years the program will have to be a 10+ game winner almost every season and continually competing for conference titles, might even sneak an actual title or two in if the stars align, regular NY6 Bowl games.

The final 5 years would need to be a string of highly successful (think Miami in the 80s, FSU in the 90s, Nebraska late 90s) where we are a Top 5 pre-season team each year and back it up on the field.
And even then, if we have a coaching change and make the wrong hire - like Oregon did with Helfrich - you run the risk of slipping back into mediocrity very quickly.

All this probably means is that the blue blood are the blue bloods, and we can't ever really count on breaking thru.

[Dawg2003]

Getting MSU to an elite recruiter status is a multi-generational process - maybe as long as 25 years.
The first 10 years have essentially been completed via Dan - build a consistent winning football team, bowl game is an expectation not an exception, build a dark-horse team every 4-5 years of very experienced talent. This is what the current generation of recruits knows us as. My 17 y.o. and 19 y.o. barely remember us sucking - they really only remember me yelling at the TV and a football game being on.

The second 10 years the program will have to be a 10+ game winner almost every season and continually competing for conference titles, might even sneak an actual title or two in if the stars align, regular NY6 Bowl games.

The final 5 years would need to be a string of highly successful (think Miami in the 80s, FSU in the 90s, Nebraska late 90s) where we are a Top 5 pre-season team each year and back it up on the field.
And even then, if we have a coaching change and make the wrong hire - like Oregon did with Helfrich - you run the risk of slipping back into mediocrity very quickly.

All this probably means is that the blue blood are the blue bloods, and we can't ever really count on breaking thru.

This makes sense. I was just going to write that we need to start having 10 win seasons with some consistency. That's the next step.