Better/worse by position discussion: Defense

[BeastMan]

Same as yesterday but did the D today. We had some good disagreement and discussion yesterday. Curious how others feel about our defense.

http://3rdand57.wordpress.com/2013/0...-or-downgrade/

[Bo Darville]

To me the jury is out on Dee Arrington. I think he is a great athlete and a great football player, but I'm not convinced it translates to safety. He is somewhat of a tweener (safety/linebacker). I think he can be a great safety in run support, but I do worry about his pass coverage skills in space. He is 220 pounds and some small quick players are going to be a tough cover for him.

[Coach34]

Same as yesterday but did the D today. We had some good disagreement and discussion yesterday. Curious how others feel about our defense.

http://3rdand57.wordpress.com/2013/0...-or-downgrade/

I strongly disagree about DT- I think we will be much improved. You cant measure a DT's just by the number of tackles. Your DT's have to be getting double teamed in a 4 man front. If they are getting single-blocked, your defense wont be worth a shit. Cherry got single blocked all damn year long. I dont think that will be the case with Eulls, PJ, and Nick James this year. Even Quay and Virges. All of these guys are a year older and they are being coached differently for 2013. Much less read and react- and more disruption.

I think we take a huge leap forward at DT

Cox wont be as good as Banks in 2013. He has the ability to be very good, but there is that transition period for jucos. He'll be a good player no doubt in 2013, but Cox will really show how damn good he is in 2014.

I see us being better at Safety also as you do. Whitley is no doubt playing better this Spring, now fully healed. And I also dont think it will be hard to match the play of Broomfield at SS.

[BeastMan]

As a whole I think DT will be much improved. I only look at the starters this year vs last year which isn't fully indicative of the unit. I take calling PJ Jones the "same" as a guy who will be in the NFL last year as a compliment. As far as the other DT spot, I think Kaleb will get the nod but that does not mean I think he's better than Nick, Quay, or Virges. From a numbers standpoint, its hard for me to get excited about Eulls right now.

As far as Cox replacing banks goes. Last year we got zero QB pressure. I think our improved pass rush will allow Cox to make the transition from Banks easy.

When I did this I tried not to get caught up in the individual as much as the position. Most fans would tell me that Banks is better than Cox. While I agree w/that, if you look at the defense as a whole, I think we get very similar production out of that position.

[Coach34]

When I did this I tried not to get caught up in the individual as much as the position. Most fans would tell me that Banks is better than Cox. While I agree w/that, if you look at the defense as a whole, I think we get very similar production out of that position.

That's actually a good point. Banks wasnt the same after getting hurt vs M. Tenn- he got burned a few times down the stretch cause he was only about 80% out there....production-wise, with the Banks injury and a better DL in 013- Cox could give us as good of a season overall

[MSUDawg4Life]

At DT, I'm not convinced we'll be much improved. I think PJ may be a slight improvement over Boyd, but I'm not certain Eulls is going to be any better than Cherrington. Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I haven't noticed Eulls doing anything special on the inside. Not commanding double teams and getting the penetration that you say is necessary for a great defense.

Hopefully, Nick James, Quay Evans and Curtis Virges can step up and provide the depth that would make it a more solid position overall. However, right now, I don't see how we can say DT will be "much improved" with PJ and Eulls.

[FlabLoser]

I hope Cox and Whitley being on the same page and in a better scheme translates to better D than the lost combination of Banks (or Slay) & Whitley made for last year.

I also think we'll be better at DT. Our young guys are going to be better. They'll get more reps. We'll have a mo betta rotation of players, keeping guys fresh. And I think the scheme will be better.

[Coach34]

At DT, I'm not convinced we'll be much improved. I think PJ may be a slight improvement over Boyd, but I'm not certain Eulls is going to be any better than Cherrington. Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I haven't noticed Eulls doing anything special on the inside. Not commanding double teams and getting the penetration that you say is necessary for a great defense.
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thats because Eulls has been playing out of position at DE- not playing DT

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Defensive Coordinator (exponentially improved). I think that sums it up.

[BeastMan]

Defensive Coordinator (exponentially improved). I think that sums it up.

Bingo

[MSUDawg4Life]

Last year, Eulls played both DT and DE during the early part of the schedule. I still didn't see him doing anything special against those weaker teams. Nothing along the lines of being a dominating DT. What is going to make him so much better this year? I saw more impressive plays by Quay than I did Eulls.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Defensive Coordinator (exponentially improved). I think that sums it up.

That might be hype too. We shall see. I hope it's true.

[Political Hack]

DT = wildcard
DE = Better
LB = Better
CB = worse, but scheme will make them better
S = better
P = Same

Even though we should be significantly better on D from a personnel standpoint, the defense will go as our DTs go.

[PendingTransaction]

I'm interested to learn what are base defense will be this year. Unless our DL and LB play improves significantly, we will be no better on defense. If we employ the wrong scheme, it could be worst than last year. Nick Saban's defense will not work at MSU. We don't have the players up front to do it. Almost every TD given up by Banks last year was when we put him in pressman because we got no pressure up front. Look at the aTm game. CB's gave up no TD's, but our DL and LBs were slaughtered. In the Mississippi game, we tried pressman and Banks got toasted. Plus they ran the ball we against us because we took the CBs out of run support. Without two certified ass whoopers upfront, and a linebacker that can cover and run to the perimeter alley, you better keep your butt in a zone defense and blitz sparingly. I'm afraid that the pressure to change the defensive philosophy will employ an unsound defense based on our personnel. Last year our defense sucked because we tried ti mix conflicting philosophies.

[BeastMan]

PendingTransaction, I actually wrote about what your saying and found the opposite. If we can agree that TFL numbers indicate an attacking D then we have a base for my theory. In this piece I ranked all SEC teams by TFL then looked if there was a correlation b/t points given up and to's created. There was. Not only that, the less talented teams benefited the MOST from blitzing their ass of. Here's the link if you want to check it out http://3rdand57.wordpress.com/2013/0...ck-in-the-sec/

[PendingTransaction]

PendingTransaction, I actually wrote about what your saying and found the opposite. If we can agree that TFL numbers indicate an attacking D then we have a base for my theory. In this piece I ranked all SEC teams by TFL then looked if there was a correlation b/t points given up and to's created. There was. Not only that, the less talented teams benefited the MOST from blitzing their ass of. Here's the link if you want to check it out http://3rdand57.wordpress.com/2013/0...ck-in-the-sec/

Beastman, thanks for the link. For the record, you are correct. I found it interesting that we were tops on the back end, but next to last on front end performance. It looks like our lack of speed on the ends, no tackle who could get pressure up the middle, and no Ashley Cooper at safety led to our lack of TFL. I also admit that our scheme had a lot to do with it.

However, I can't help but notice that most of our passing TDs were given up when we were in press man. Perhaps we should have used more zone blitzes. The stats you complied can explains why a DC could feel that he needed corner support with the run. I know that we had three coaches (HC, DC, & Co-DC) with different philophosies on the best approach to defense considering the personnel and their talents and lack there of. As the season progressed, it became painfully obvious that the players were confused and frustrated.

Hopefully the players have improved in areas of weakness. Plus we will have a unified approach on how the defense should be run. I'm hopeful that we will play better defense. I'm really excited to see what our scheme will be. Do you think we will play a 4-2-5 with a safety deep in the box and one over the slot? Again I appreciate your analysis. I really love studying this game and people like you help me to look at things from a different angle.