Marcus mariota

[msstate7]

Racked up on awards (camp, maxwell, and o'brien) tonight. I can't argue it bc he's had a terrific year. I did look at his schedule though and this is what I found...

MM has faced 2 teams (stanford and Michigan state) in the top 60 total defenses.

MM has faced 3 teams (Stanford, Michigan state, and washington) in the top 60 scoring defenses.

All but aTm in the sec west is in the top 60 scoring defenses with 4 (OM, bama, lsu, and state) in the top 10.

It would interesting what dak and mm's stats looked like if they switched schedules

[dawgs]

Racked up on awards (camp, maxwell, and o'brien) tonight. I can't argue it bc he's had a terrific year. I did look at his schedule though and this is what I found...

MM has faced 2 teams (stanford and Michigan state) in the top 60 total defenses.

MM has faced 3 teams (Stanford, Michigan state, and washington) in the top 60 scoring defenses.

All but aTm in the sec west is in the top 60 scoring defenses with 4 (OM, bama, lsu, and state) in the top 10.

It would interesting what dak and mm's stats looked like if they switched schedules

Probably similar to what they have now.

[defiantdog]

The PAC 12 is an offensive friendly league. Michigan St. and Stanford both had down years as well. Marriota is good, but he would have troubles in the SEC. Manziel, Tebow and Newton all struggled at times in the SEC. I don't believe he'd have the same numbers that he has now.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Mariota definitely benefited from his schedule.

[RougeDawg]

This is why I have been saying they need to account for the competition in these awards. The LAC12 defenses are a joke. Even Bro could win all these awards out there.

[dawgs]

The PAC 12 is an offensive friendly league. Michigan St. and Stanford both had down years as well. Marriota is good, but he would have troubles in the SEC. Manziel, Tebow and Newton all struggled at times in the SEC. I don't believe he'd have the same numbers that he has now.

If he put up Tebow/cam/jff numbers for the #2 team in the country, he'd have won all the same awards.

[dawgs]

Also, yards per play is a truer measure of defense in modern CFB due to the wide range of play speed where some teams runs 80+ plays/game and others barely top 60/game.

[msstate7]

Also, yards per play is a truer measure of defense in modern CFB due to the wide range of play speed where some teams runs 80+ plays/game and others barely top 60/game.

Vs total defense, I agree. Scoring defense will always be the true measure though

[Dallas_Dawg]

Racked up on awards (camp, maxwell, and o'brien) tonight. I can't argue it bc he's had a terrific year. I did look at his schedule though and this is what I found...

MM has faced 2 teams (stanford and Michigan state) in the top 60 total defenses.

MM has faced 3 teams (Stanford, Michigan state, and washington) in the top 60 scoring defenses.

All but aTm in the sec west is in the top 60 scoring defenses with 4 (OM, bama, lsu, and state) in the top 10.

It would interesting what dak and mm's stats looked like if they switched schedules

That's a pretty awesome breakdown. That is a huge indicator to me but the voters don't see it that way. Dak could go 4000 in the air and 2000 on the ground in the pac12. L

[thf24]

If he put up Tebow/cam/jff numbers for the #2 team in the country, he'd have won all the same awards.

Maybe that's true, but it's ridiculous to simply assume he would. What logic says that it's fine to assume he'd put up the same production and win the same awards playing mostly far statistically superior defenses? Also, there's a practical example both for this instance and any other PAC/SEC comparison: Masoli. Granted he wasn't on Mariota's level, but he saw a huge decline in effectiveness after moving from the PAC to the SEC. There is far more support for the prediction that individual production would drop from the PAC to the SEC than that it would stay the same.

[dawgs]

Maybe that's true, but it's ridiculous to simply assume he would. What logic says that it's fine to assume he'd put up the same production and win the same awards playing mostly far statistically superior defenses? Also, there's a practical example both for this instance and any other PAC/SEC comparison: Masoli. Granted he wasn't on Mariota's level, but he saw a huge decline in effectiveness after moving from the PAC to the SEC. There is far more support for the prediction that individual production would drop from the PAC to the SEC than that it would stay the same.

Masoli wasn't in the best shape or frame of mind coming into OM. New offense. Lesser surrounding talent. Came to the program late, so didn't have time to learn the system. Lots of factors in that situation beyond "he sucked only because of sec defense".

[dawgs]

That's a pretty awesome breakdown. That is a huge indicator to me but the voters don't see it that way. Dak could go 4000 in the air and 2000 on the ground in the pac12. L

The pac 12 puts as many or more QBs in the NFL than anyone. Either Dak is the best QB in the history of CFB and is a future NFL hall of famer or someone else (like Aaron Rodgers or andrew luck) would've at least approached those yardage numbers. I'll give you a hint: dak ain't a future NFL hall of famer.

[msstate7]

The pac 12 puts as many or more QBs in the NFL than anyone. Either Dak is the best QB in the history of CFB and is a future NFL hall of famer or someone else (like Aaron Rodgers or andrew luck) would've at least approached those yardage numbers. I'll give you a hint: dak ain't a future NFL hall of famer.

Nfl starting qb's from pac12:

Luck
Palmer (injured)
Foles (injured)/ Sanchez
Rodgers

Sec:

P manning
E manning
Z met (injured)
Cutler
Stafford
Newton (injured)
Manziel (just won job)

[msstate7]

The pac 12 puts as many or more QBs in the NFL than anyone. Either Dak is the best QB in the history of CFB and is a future NFL hall of famer or someone else (like Aaron Rodgers or andrew luck) would've at least approached those yardage numbers. I'll give you a hint: dak ain't a future NFL hall of famer.

As a pac12 guy, you know that luck's numbers were held back by the offense he played in. If luck was in oregon's offense, his numbers would destroy mariota's imo. Luck >>>>>>>>>mariota

[Jack Lambert]

Mariota definitely benefited from his schedule.

A lot of this crap is going to be learned by the remaining of the country in the Playoff.

[defiantdog]

Nfl starting qb's from pac12:

Luck
Palmer (injured)
Foles (injured)/ Sanchez
Rodgers

Sec:

P manning
E manning
Z met (injured)
Cutler
Stafford
Newton (injured)
Manziel (just won job)

And Tannehill would have been an SEC qb if he held out one more year. And don't forget about Ryan Mallet at the Texans (he did start one game this year).

[Rick Danko]

Nfl starting qb's from pac12:

Luck
Palmer (injured)
Foles (injured)/ Sanchez
Rodgers

Sec:

P manning
E manning
Z met (injured)
Cutler
Stafford
Newton (injured)
Manziel (just won job)

Wouldn't go so far as to say Manziel won the job as Hoyer lost it. Could be infinitely wrong for sure, but no way IMO is Manziel the future at QB for the Browns or any other team, unless they don't mind losing alot

[engie]

Dawgs is a Oregon fanboy. He confirms it in every thread...

Mariotta would have still been better than Dak down here IMO. The margin almost certainly would have gotten closer. Adjustedstats say that we were pretty close to them, but not quite there offensively.

That said, Mariotta has 1.5 extra years as a starter over Dak and started alot closer to excellence. We will revisit next year, when Dak has another year of passing improvement...

[dawgs]

Nfl starting qb's from pac12:

Luck
Palmer (injured)
Foles (injured)/ Sanchez
Rodgers

Sec:

P manning
E manning
Z met (injured)
Cutler
Stafford
Newton (injured)
Manziel (just won job)

And I'd take every pac 12 QB over every sec QB except peyton, except stafford over foles/Sanchez, though that one epic season stafford had is getting further and further away.

It's just ludicrous to argue dak would put up 4K passing yards and 2K rushing yards against the pac 12. Some of the best QBs in the NFL and in nfl history played college ball in the pac 12 and didn't approach those numbers. Some of the best college QBs of all time played in the PAC 12 and didn't approach those numbers.

Look, you can't write off every performance in another conference as "well if they played in the sec their numbers wouldn't be good", and you can't say that every sec player "would've put up astronomical numbers in conference _____", because many of the greatest players in the NFL aren't sec guys. They went to other programs in other power conferences and they put up good numbers (probably less than y'all think sec player ____) would put up though, and they are dominating the NFL these days while many sec players aren't. There's just not going to be a huge variant of production from one power conference to the next if you could hypothetically could move a guy from conference to conference to test it out.

[defiantdog]

And I'd take every pac 12 QB over every sec QB except peyton, except stafford over foles/Sanchez, though that one epic season stafford had is getting further and further away.

It's just ludicrous to argue dak would put up 4K passing yards and 2K rushing yards against the pac 12. Some of the best QBs in the NFL and in nfl history played college ball in the pac 12 and didn't approach those numbers. Some of the best college QBs of all time played in the PAC 12 and didn't approach those numbers.

Look, you can't write off every performance in another conference as "well if they played in the sec their numbers wouldn't be good", and you can't say that every sec player "would've put up astronomical numbers in conference _____", because many of the greatest players in the NFL aren't sec guys. They went to other programs in other power conferences and they put up good numbers (probably less than y'all think sec player ____) would put up though, and they are dominating the NFL these days while many sec players aren't. There's just not going to be a huge variant of production from one power conference to the next if you could hypothetically could move a guy from conference to conference to test it out.

Carson Palmer hasn't done anything since winning the heisman. He's made the playoffs twice with the Bengals and now he's injuring his ego every other game and collecting a check while he watches the third string play. Even Eli has two Super Bowl rings. I'd take Msstate's list over your pac 12 fairies any day.