10 things i wish Cohen would get..

[AlSwearengen]

Our problem is that we don't have a true 3 hole hitter. Rea has the power but strikes out too much. Pirtle handles the bat well, but doesn't have enough power.

We have a traditional leadoff man and two hitter (if Detz gets it going). Pirtle could probably be a good two hole hitter if Detz wasn't out there.

People who have seen more games can correct me if I am wrong, but the games that I have seen Pirtle get extra base hits, he has pulled the ball down the line. Rea, Garner, and Humphries (and maybe Collins) are the only guys that I see as having consistent alley power ability.

We need to hurry up and build the best college baseball stadium in the country and hopefully fill out our lineup with more Gavin Collins type of players. Guys that don't need a ton of development.

[Todd4State]

If you want Rea up with the most people on base you hit him 4th. That's 100% fact. Has nothing to do with "an MLB offense".

From an article that starts paraphrased "GM's get it but Managers don't" tells me that the person who wrote that has never coached a baseball game or actually made out a lineup in his life before. Unless you believe a GM makes out a lineup card.

And that "100% fact" is based off of data using players conventionally in spots that they fit in. Like having your best all-around hitter batting third. But either they don't realize that because they are ignorant or they don't understand it.

[Todd4State]

Our problem is that we don't have a true 3 hole hitter. Rea has the power but strikes out too much. Pirtle handles the bat well, but doesn't have enough power.

We have a traditional leadoff man and two hitter (if Detz gets it going). Pirtle could probably be a good two hole hitter if Detz wasn't out there.

People who have seen more games can correct me if I am wrong, but the games that I have seen Pirtle get extra base hits, he has pulled the ball down the line. Rea, Garner, and Humphries (and maybe Collins) are the only guys that I see as having consistent alley power ability.

We need to hurry up and build the best college baseball stadium in the country and hopefully fill out our lineup with more Gavin Collins type of players. Guys that don't need a ton of development.

Agree 100%.

[bully99]

I'm glad some folks are starting to come around on Cohen's recruiting. In year 6 why are we recruiting so many jucos if our freshman recruits are so good. Why does a program in the deep south in the sec with a quality baseball history have to sign two punch and judies from Canada. And Cohen needs to recruit more than just Alabama. We should be able to recruit all over the south , but we're getting beat in the recruiting game by lesser lites.

Having followed State for decades, I've never seen so many punch and judy hitters on one State team
But Cohen has that philosophy and he needs to rethink his recruiting. . If we win the next two everybody will be happy.

[Todd4State]

I'm glad some folks are starting to come around on Cohen's recruiting. In year 6 why are we recruiting so many jucos if our freshman recruits are so good. Why does a program in the deep south in the sec with a quality baseball history have to sign two punch and judies from Canada. And Cohen needs to recruit more than just Alabama. We should be able to recruit all over the south , but we're getting beat in the recruiting game by lesser lites.

Having followed State for decades, I've never seen so many punch and judy hitters on one State team
But Cohen has that philosophy and he needs to rethink his recruiting. . If we win the next two everybody will be happy.

So- Canada = Alabama? Robson was drafted by the Padres out of high school. Your boy recruited Alabama every bit as much if not more than Cohen.

C- From California
1B- Mississippi
2B- Texas
3B- California
SS- Washington
LF- Alabama (Boom roasted**)
CF- Florida
RF- Mississippi
DH- Mississippi or Alabama.

Rotation:

Alabama
Alabama
Mississippi

So- we have a grand total of TWO starting position players from Alabama- and that's if Garner DH's- and two guys in the rotation from there. For someone that has followed MSU baseball for decades- you might want to look a little bit closer.

People aren't "coming around about Cohen's recruiting" because his recruiting has helped get us to a National Title game, two SR's and a SEC Tournament Championship. His recruiting has also produced two first round picks. In other words- no one agrees with you because they have a brain and prefer winning over Polk's "nice boys". And unfortunately for you, since Cohen has done his winning in year's 3, 4, and 5 you can't spin it as him winning with Polk's players.

And as far as "getting beat in recruiting by lesser lites"- L. O. L.

As far as Cohen's philosophy- in case you haven't noticed- the bats are completely dead. This is a small ball environment. Hitting fly balls in a big ball park is not the best idea. And it's not going to change until the baseball changes in 2015- and even then if you are expecting gorilla ball you will be sorely disappointed. The way to win is with balance and speed. Ask UCLA.

But yes, let's re-think our recruiting since Woodruff who basically had a broken arm hasn't worked out and Britton who was signed on NSD at the last minute and has always been a project hasn't figured it out yet. And by God we should stop recruiting Alabama since the Canadians can't hit.

But the reason we had to recruit so many JUCO's is because your boy royally f****** up our numbers to the point where it caused us to have a big class and then a small class and the only to even start to straighten that out is to bring in JUCO's to get some attrition.

[Goat Holder]

You are so damned gungho on your agenda that your mind is borderline retarded. You're completely focusing on the wrong thing. Recruiting is fine......the guys he's getting were recruited by everybody. It's the development that's the problem. Some are, some aren't. Probably normal, but I'd much rather the true talents be in the field like Britton, than the 'safe' players like Heck. That extra range is the difference in games often times.

[bully99]

Todd,you keep calling me a Polk apologist, couldn't be farther from the truth., but you have to be honest in evaluating everyone. I'm hoping for a turnaround this year.

[RougeDawg]

Todd you're slightly off here. Armstrong should have started last year over Henderson. He's got a much better approach and better mechanics than Henderson ever dreamed of having. Period. But Armstrong played in Juco where he obviously was taught proper mechanics. Cohen just plays his favorites, and hopes he can will them to prosperity. Hence Ray in the 3 hole. You never put a 50+ strikeout guy in the 3 hole, ever in college. That will kill more rallies than anything. Putting the ball in play is the name of the game. This brings me to my post I made on the UCSB 1st game thread as the 2nd game was starting. Was at the end so I'm sure most of you were already bashing our rusty gate hitters in the 2nd game to notice it. I know this may be way over most of your heads, but it is what the consistently great teams do and are coached to do.

03-07-2014, 08:07 PM #1
RougeDawg
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I don't even know where to even begin after reading this thread. Let me start off by saying, I have been posting here and the old board since Cohen arrived, that the hitters did not have proper hitting mechanics, to which I get bashed even by the so called "baseball experts on here". I have also stated that Renfroe's mechanics were not completely text book until his summer in the Cape. One thing that he wasn't either taught or listened to, is knowing the situation and predicting the pitch. I could type for hours about both, but bottom line is, either Cohen does not teach proper hitting mechanics and in game at bat approach, or our hitters do not listen.

The proper swing is almost like a bench press of the bat THROUGH the hitting zone, which Hunter and Frazier displayed last year. Thus their observed power and ability to hit the ball to all fields with authority. The hands only press forward toward the pitcher through the zone, from the back shoulder to way out in front of the plate in a motion similar to a plane doing a touch and go landing. Depending on location of pitch the hands are directed inside or outside thus making the same essentially the same for inside or outside pitch, in turn leading to power to all fields. This approach also helps go the other way because you teach the hitter to look away every pitch. If ball is inside you just pull hands in 6 inches during swing to make contact. Keeping the bat flat through the zone allows more contact, even when your timing may be off a little, resulting in a much higher batting average and contact percentage.

Quote Originally Posted by whosyourdawgy View Post
We definitely aren't showing any pop at all today. Weak ass grounders and lazy pop ups. Nothing on the nose
But look at most every other one of our hitters outside of Robson, and they all swing AROUND the zone. The swing resembles a gate, revolving around an axis. Prime example is CT. This approach requires almost perfect timing to reach maximum power output. The bat goes around the body and has to be in the zone the exact time the baseball is in the zone. Being too quick or slow, results in jam jobs, whiffs and que balls off the end of the bat. This type of swing also results in a lot of pull side weak ground balls and lazy pops to the opposite field. These types of swings also tell a defense where to play a hitter, based on the pitch. Calling the pitches on defense is also beneficial.


Quote Originally Posted by sack07
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It's a philosophy thing. There is no one right way to do it, otherwise everyone would do it. We rode the patient approach to the Title game last year. I know it's frustrating this game, especially against UCSB's aggressive success this game. However, anyone who has been around the game (which by the intelligent discussion here many of you have) knows that tomorrow that aggressive approach might K and pop up all game long and allow the starter to go into the 8th on 50 pitches. It's a philosophy that Cohen has built this program on and has been successful. Single games can be very frustrating, but over the course of the year we'll be fine.

As for aggressiveness, I'm not sure what UCSB was doing, but I am going to assume. They were making contact often and most times early in the pitch count? They were also attempting steals and putting runners in motion on hit and runs? This is not aggressive, it's smart baseball. It shows a team that has been taught the game and mental aspect by their coach. Another knock I've repeatedly made about Cohen, to which I get bashed. The game is fairly simple if you learn it and it's frustrating to watch college players not know the game. I can tell most of you have never played at the college level, but a good college coach teaches the game. I see our hitters get fooled alot of the time, when they shouldn't, if they read the scouting report, know the game, and then pay attention to every batter during that game. Every pitcher has tendencies, in every situation. Those tendencies can also change throughout the game depending on numerous factors: 2nd time through lineup, certain hitters hitting specific pitches well, etc. A game is constantly evolving and you have to constantly adjust your thinking. Scouting reports tell you the percentages of how a pitcher will approach every type of hitter in every situation. He will also adjust those percentages, based on success during the game. A good hitter takes all of this into account and can pretty much call the next pitch before the pitcher thinks about it. This is why its so frustrating to watch us play. I can sit in the stands or watch on tv and predict 80% of the pitches. How much better do you think our hitters would be if they knew what pitch was coming 80% of the time?

Last year in Omaha, while sitting behind the dugout, I was calling pitches the entire game and some Omaha resident turns around and asked me how I was doing it. I tried to explain the best way I knew but it takes a while to learn.

And just like that Vickerson with a lazy pop out to opposite field. Rusty Gate swing.

[War Machine Dawg]

I don't agree with this. I want my best hitter to come up as many times to the plate as possible. Not my "fifth best hitter". Sorry.

You also need to understand that we are not an Earl Weaver ball team in anyway shape or form nor are we a MLB team with 4-5 power guys that we can use throughout the lineup.

In other words- what you are suggesting we do would be like Croom trying to run a NFL offense with 2 star recruits.

That's gonna leave a mark. WJ = Baseball Crxxms.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I'm glad some folks are starting to come around on Cohen's recruiting. In year 6 why are we recruiting so many jucos if our freshman recruits are so good. Why does a program in the deep south in the sec with a quality baseball history have to sign two punch and judies from Canada. And Cohen needs to recruit more than just Alabama. We should be able to recruit all over the south , but we're getting beat in the recruiting game by lesser lites.

Having followed State for decades, I've never seen so many punch and judy hitters on one State team
But Cohen has that philosophy and he needs to rethink his recruiting. . If we win the next two everybody will be happy.

You need to just give this shit up. Nobody is "coming around" to your side on this- you are the only person here who thinks Cohen can't recruit.

Now could we develop high school players better? You could certainly make that argument, but that has nothing to do with getting the talent to campus.

[messageboardsuperhero]

You are so damned gungho on your agenda that your mind is borderline retarded. You're completely focusing on the wrong thing. Recruiting is fine......the guys he's getting were recruited by everybody. It's the development that's the problem. Some are, some aren't. Probably normal, but I'd much rather the true talents be in the field like Britton, than the 'safe' players like Heck. That extra range is the difference in games often times.

Exactly.

I'd love for Britton to step up and allow us to move Heck to 2B next year. Britton is unbelievable talented defensively.

[Todd4State]

Todd,you keep calling me a Polk apologist, couldn't be farther from the truth., but you have to be honest in evaluating everyone. I'm hoping for a turnaround this year.

Well then you obviously can't evaluate what you are seeing on the field. You don't recruit poorly and yet still have the same success ON the field. Period.

That would be like Alabama fans questioning Saban's recruiting. No one is "lucky" three years in a row.

The reason I have been calling you a Polk apologist is because that is the only logical explanation behind your thoughts.

[Todd4State]

You need to just give this shit up. Nobody is "coming around" to your side on this- you are the only person here who thinks Cohen can't recruit.

Now could we develop high school players better? You could certainly make that argument, but that has nothing to do with getting the talent to campus.

As far as Mississippi talent- the baseball talent here is usually very, very raw. It's not because of the high school coaches- it's because of the lack of elite select teams that play year round like California or Atlanta. In fact, most scouts are OK with Mississippi kids going to college because it actually ends up helping the player unless it's somene like a Kirk Presley or an Anthony Alford.

In my opinion, we have developed players very well under Cohen. Most of them have gotten better over the course of their careers. Has everyone panned out and thrived? No. But Skip Bertman and Augie Garrido didn't have everyone pan out either. It's real easy to harp on a guy like Britton and ignore how much Rea, Henderson, Fitts, and others improved over time the longer they were here.

Although I must say it seems funny to me to complain about our hitting one day after our pitching staff gave up 8 and 12 runs or whatever it was.

[messageboardsuperhero]

As far as Mississippi talent- the baseball talent here is usually very, very raw. It's not because of the high school coaches- it's because of the lack of elite select teams that play year round like California or Atlanta. In fact, most scouts are OK with Mississippi kids going to college because it actually ends up helping the player unless it's somene like a Kirk Presley or an Anthony Alford.

In my opinion, we have developed players very well under Cohen. Most of them have gotten better over the course of their careers. Has everyone panned out and thrived? No. But Skip Bertman and Augie Garrido didn't have everyone pan out either. It's real easy to harp on a guy like Britton and ignore how much Rea, Henderson, Fitts, and others improved over time the longer they were here.

Although I must say it seems funny to me to complain about our hitting one day after our pitching staff gave up 8 and 12 runs or whatever it was.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go so far as to say the Cohen can't develop talent well- actually, Cohen's been a good player developer, IMO. I'm just saying that that's a more legitimate gripe than our recruiting.

To question Cohen's ability to get talented players to campus is just plain dumb.

[AlSwearengen]

Todd is right about MS kids. They don't face good enough competition on a regular basis so when they get to college, they have further to go. A good example is Collins, who is doing a good job right now and Humphries who shows the talent but is inconsistent.

A kid that plays against top talent on a regular basis is going to be better prepared physically as well as mentally.

[Goat Holder]

Cohen is considered one of the best hitting coaches out there. But he's got nothing on ROUGEDAWG. If only he had you to call pitches for him.

[Goat Holder]

I agree, but talent is talent. If they were coached well in high school, they'll be better prepared right out the gate for sure. But will they end up like a Renfroe? Have to have 5 tool talent for that, raw or not.

[Todd4State]

I agree, but talent is talent. If they were coached well in high school, they'll be better prepared right out the gate for sure. But will they end up like a Renfroe? Have to have 5 tool talent for that, raw or not.

It's not so much about teaching and talent as it is experience. And by experience I mean live game action.

For a state our size, we have very good talent overall in a typical year.

[RougeDawg]

Cohen is considered one of the best hitting coaches out there. But he's got nothing on ROUGEDAWG. If only he had you to call pitches for him.

Then why don't our hitters have proper mechanics? Something has to give there? It's one or the other.

Also, why is it that after summers in prominent leagues, do our hitters then see proper mechanics and their stats increase? Renfroe is a prime example. His power to all fields increased tremendously after getting proper instruction in the cape. People wonder why he started hitting more souvenirs that summer. Those who know baseball know why.

The only hitters we have right now with proper mechanics are Armstrong, Robson and Sometimes Ray. Armstrong seems to be really the only one who gets "it" in the approach category when it comes to reading pitchers and situation. He coincidentally played JUCO for a different coach, where he apparently learned what he knows.

[Goat Holder]

Then why don't our hitters have proper mechanics?......The only hitters we have right now with proper mechanics are Armstrong, Robson and Sometimes Ray.

All of that is your opinion. Don't try and make it fact.

Also, why is it that after summers in prominent leagues, do our hitters then see proper mechanics and their stats increase? Renfroe is a prime example. His power to all fields increased tremendously after getting proper instruction in the cape. People wonder why he started hitting more souvenirs that summer. Those who know baseball know why.

Those who know baseball know the main reason is because he was a year older. Same with most other players as well. Renfroe made a lot of progress from his freshman year to his sophomore year too.

This is all simply your bias. Our lack of power is due to a bunch of 5'8", 170 lb. players. It's much simpler than people like you want to think. I guess you just want to have something to bitch about. I simply don't get it.