Chris Lemonis Thoughts

[Todd4State]

Having seen how things have played out here is what I think essentially happened with Lemonis.

We got him from Indiana which has ZERO expectations in baseball. He has a winning season there he's great. No one is paying attention. Make a regional and the 100 fans that do care are ecstatic. When does basketball season start? Also, he had Kyle Bunn has his pitching coach so he didn't have Foxhall there.

He gets the MSU job. And really you can't ask for a better situation. Veteran team coming off of an Omaha appearance with a couple of wins in the CWS with several future first round picks on the roster in addition to guys like Mangum, TA, MacNamee. In other words- screwing it up would be impressive. So, the team wins and keeps on rolling. But the "bad" thing about that is I think it may have lulled Lemonis into a false sense of security. I don't think he realized the level of detail that fans demand at MSU and things that were happening at times were overlooked because TA would win the game in the 9th or Landon Sims would come in for a struggling pitcher and put the fire out and then strike out the side in the 9th.

Then the MSU icons left for the pros and Foxhall fell off of a cliff at the same time. Lemonis got on the hot seat, but I think he has gradually learned about what the expectations that fans have here are. The first big move he made was firing Foxhall midseason and then getting Parker. He also corrected the defense and while yes, the improved pitching is part of that a lot of it is a new emphasis on that. But we now see issues with baserunning and our hitting approach for most of the year has been poor until the past three weeks.

Now that he is almost definitely coming back for 2025 I'm going to be curious to see if Lemonis will take the lessons that he has learned the past few years and become an even better coach.

[StateDawg44]

Having seen how things have played out here is what I think essentially happened with Lemonis.

We got him from Indiana which has ZERO expectations in baseball. He has a winning season there he's great. No one is paying attention. Make a regional and the 100 fans that do care are ecstatic. When does basketball season start? Also, he had Kyle Bunn has his pitching coach so he didn't have Foxhall there.

He gets the MSU job. And really you can't ask for a better situation. Veteran team coming off of an Omaha appearance with a couple of wins in the CWS with several future first round picks on the roster in addition to guys like Mangum, TA, MacNamee. In other words- screwing it up would be impressive. So, the team wins and keeps on rolling. But the "bad" thing about that is I think it may have lulled Lemonis into a false sense of security. I don't think he realized the level of detail that fans demand at MSU and things that were happening at times were overlooked because TA would win the game in the 9th or Landon Sims would come in for a struggling pitcher and put the fire out and then strike out the side in the 9th.

Then the MSU icons left for the pros and Foxhall fell off of a cliff at the same time. Lemonis got on the hot seat, but I think he has gradually learned about what the expectations that fans have here are. The first big move he made was firing Foxhall midseason and then getting Parker. He also corrected the defense and while yes, the improved pitching is part of that a lot of it is a new emphasis on that. But we now see issues with baserunning and our hitting approach for most of the year has been poor until the past three weeks.

Now that he is almost definitely coming back for 2025 I'm going to be curious to see if Lemonis will take the lessons that he has learned the past few years and become an even better coach.

Sounds like an unqualified coach that we are paying to learn as he goes (still) instead of an elite coach that could?ve possibly kept the train rolling at a high level instead of derailing it for two years.

Yeah he won a championship but I probably could?ve coached that team to a natty.

[viverlibre]

Yeah he won a championship but I probably could?ve coached that team to a natty.

Uh, Polk did much less with more.

[StateDawg44]

Uh, Polk did much less with more.

Uh, what does that have to do with anything?

[viverlibre]

Uh, what does that have to do with anything?

He's making is sound like winning a natty is easy. We've have two head coaches who have a reputation as being great, but neither won a natty (Polk didn't even sniff one), in-spite of having overwhelming support, resources and talent.

[StateDawg44]

He's making is sound like winning a natty is easy. We've have two head coaches who have a reputation as being great, but neither won a natty (Polk didn't even sniff one), in-spite of having overwhelming support, resources and talent.

No. I made it sound like that team was built to win one with or without Lemonis. It's obviously not easy to win a Natty.

Mike Martin was considered great. He never won one. DVH is considered great. He hasn't won one either.

Lemonis isn't great.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I kinda got the impression no Elite coach wanted to work for Cohen is why we have Lemonis.

[Santiago]

I kinda got the impression no Elite coach wanted to work for Cohen is why we have Lemonis.

Seeing how fast Schloss has built A&M , and from both recruiting and portal, to win now.
We seem to have to explain Lemonis to ourselves to reason it out. I want the guy to win, but he seems to not be on the level of some others.

I think you are right on Cohen.

[Coach34]

I kinda got the impression no Elite coach wanted to work for Cohen is why we have Lemonis.

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

[StateDawg44]

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

Let's hear why you think this.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Let's hear why you think this.

I'm not C34, but I'll take a crack at it. Our job can be a great job, but it also comes with damn near unrealistic expectations. I mean we're wanting to fire a guy two years removed from winning a national championship. And hell, we damn near fired Cohen after the 15 season and he was two years removed from the national championship series and one year removed from a Regional final. Our fans have LSU like expectations with an eight of the success. A lot of the top flight HCs are making 750-1.2 and are not constantly under pressure to win a national championship or their season is a failure. Why would you want to come here, bring all that stress on you and your family, and only get a maybe 500K raise. Baseball coaches are not like football and basketball. They don't do a whole lot of moving around. Once they're established, they tend to stay. You have to take a chance on either a P5 hitting/pitching coach, like Tenn did with Vitello or you have to hire an up and comer like a Lemonis or a Rob Vaughn

[Santiago]

I'm not C34, but I'll take a crack at it. Our job can be a great job, but it also comes with damn near unrealistic expectations. I mean we're wanting to fire a guy two years removed from winning a national championship. And hell, we damn near fired Cohen after the 15 season and he was two years removed from the national championship series and one year removed from a Regional final. Our fans have LSU like expectations with an eight of the success. A lot of the top flight HCs are making 750-1.2 and are not constantly under pressure to win a national championship or their season is a failure. Why would you want to come here, bring all that stress on you and your family, and only get a maybe 500K raise. Baseball coaches are not like football and basketball. They don't do a whole lot of moving around. Once they're established, they tend to stay. You have to take a chance on either a P5 hitting/pitching coach, like Tenn did with Vitello or you have to hire an up and comer like a Lemonis or a Rob Vaughn

Vaughn to me builtup a Maryland team moreso than Lemonis just taking over an Indiana team already built.
Vaughn was a heck of a hire by Greg Byrne.

[Santiago]

I'm not C34, but I'll take a crack at it. Our job can be a great job, but it also comes with damn near unrealistic expectations. I mean we're wanting to fire a guy two years removed from winning a national championship. And hell, we damn near fired Cohen after the 15 season and he was two years removed from the national championship series and one year removed from a Regional final. Our fans have LSU like expectations with an eight of the success. A lot of the top flight HCs are making 750-1.2 and are not constantly under pressure to win a national championship or their season is a failure. Why would you want to come here, bring all that stress on you and your family, and only get a maybe 500K raise. Baseball coaches are not like football and basketball. They don't do a whole lot of moving around. Once they're established, they tend to stay. You have to take a chance on either a P5 hitting/pitching coach, like Tenn did with Vitello or you have to hire an up and comer like a Lemonis or a Rob Vaughn

I appreciate your insight. This makes me also wonder, if our fan base, after tasting the NC game in 2013, we pushed and expected to get back and try to win even more, and it propelled both the fans and Cohen with a driven hunger to get it. What if we let up and said, that should be pretty good for another decade.
I get there is a balance eeded, but we love baseball at MSU more than any team I have seen in college. I like that we have multiple threads about winning in baseball, and having pros and cons

[BrunswickDawg]

Let's hear why you think this.

Well, the list of top flight HC in any sport that have chosen to come to MSU is pretty short.
The list of "sitting", elite coaches is even shorter.

[Coach34]

Let's hear why you think this.

Top baseball coaches rarely leave for other programs. There is no advantage to coaching in StarkVegas over other top programs. And those coaches with younger kids dont really care to send their kids to Starkville HS. Wives dont really care to move to StarkVegas or Mississippi in general. Even Schloss leaving TCU was partially started by his divorce and things going on off the field.

Corbin, Sully, Bunko, McDonnell, Van Horn, Leggett (Clemson), O'Conner (Virginia), Fox (NC), and those guys get to their place and stay 20 years.
Manieri would still be at LSU if he hadnt been forced out
Vitello isnt leaving Tennessee. He's entrenched now and they are building him what he wants
Jarrett is home now at Fla St- he plans to retire there
Johnson has the best job in the country- he aint leaving
Now that Clown has built up Kentucky and Butch has Auburn going (altho this year has been awful)- them leaving where they are would be probably be 50/50

[StateDawg44]

Top baseball coaches rarely leave for other programs. There is no advantage to coaching in StarkVegas over other top programs. And those coaches with younger kids dont really care to send their kids to Starkville HS. Wives dont really care to move to StarkVegas or Mississippi in general. Even Schloss leaving TCU was partially started by his divorce and things going on off the field.

Corbin, Sully, Bunko, McDonnell, Van Horn, Leggett (Clemson), O'Conner (Virginia), Fox (NC), and those guys get to their place and stay 20 years.
Manieri would still be at LSU if he hadnt been forced out
Vitello isnt leaving Tennessee. He's entrenched now and they are building him what he wants
Jarrett is home now at Fla St- he plans to retire there
Johnson has the best job in the country- he aint leaving
Now that Clown has built up Kentucky and Butch has Auburn going (altho this year has been awful)- them leaving where they are would be probably be 50/50

I wouldn't expect to pluck any on your list here except maybe Butch or Mingione. Most of those are a pipe dream and unrealistic.

There are many between Lemonis and those on this list that you gave though.

[The Federalist Engineer]

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

That's what our leader said he was doing. I'll admit that I was naive and believed Cohen that had many Top, Omaha Experieced, and Elite coaches ready for the job. I thought he was picking from many top candidates.

I remember us arguing if we wanted Schloss, Tadlock, McD, Bobby Cox, O'Connor, Joe Madden, or Corbin more. As though these were the candidates. Preacherdog had Tadlock as his avatar all spring. I was team Schloss with McD being my acceptable #2. I thought Schloss was more glamorous but McD would hurt Ole Miss more. I am joking about Madden and Cox but I remember us talking about every possible glamorous coach.

When Lemonis was announced, we-the-naive were blindsided. I had to look up if Lemonis was the Indiana coach we faced in the 2013 CWS.

From what Todd said, Cohen should have just hired Gary Henderson and paid Vitello to be the coach-in-waiting. Yelp, I am being the backseat driver with the benefit of future results already known. Cohen could have gotten GH the best assistants in College Baseball and told GH, he would retire by 2020.

[StarkVegasSteve]

That's what our leader said he was doing. I'll admit that I was naive and believed Cohen that had many Top, Omaha Experieced, and Elite coaches ready for the job. I thought he was picking from many top candidates.

I remember us arguing if we wanted Schloss, Tadlock, McD, Bobby Cox, O'Connor, Joe Madden, or Corbin more. As though these were the candidates. Preacherdog had Tadlock as his avatar all spring. I was team Schloss with McD being my acceptable #2. I thought Schloss was more glamorous but McD would hurt Ole Miss more. I am joking about Madden and Cox but I remember us talking about every possible glamorous coach.

When Lemonis was announced, we-the-naive were blindsided. I had to look up if Lemonis was the Indiana coach we faced in the 2013 CWS.

From what Todd said, Cohen should have just hired Gary Henderson and paid Vitello to be the coach-in-waiting. Yelp, I am being the backseat driver with the benefit of future results already known. Cohen could have gotten GH the best assistants in College Baseball and told GH, he would retire by 2020.

The main issue there is that Vitello was hired at Tennessee in 2017 so we would've had to pull a sitting HC from an SEC school to be a HC in waiting. Somehow I don't think he would have gone for that. Cohen should've just hired Vitello when he hired Cann. They're the same person except Vitello is single so he can do all the stuff Cann did and no one can say anything.

[Santiago]

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

Having some fun here coach, but I read this as you admitting Lemonis is not some top flight HC.

[Coach34]

Having some fun here coach, but I read this as you admitting Lemonis is not some top flight HC.

Honestly I dont. Some of the decisions we make drive me nuts- like pitching Davis on Saturday. Bringing him in after Auger on Sunday could have kept us in the game and given us that sweep chance. But I believed 100% he deserved this year because of the Natty. But my stance is clear- we miss a Regional next year? You're fired. 3 out of 4 doesnt cut it. I think we have some solid pieces for next year but we will be inexperienced. Need some good portal pieces and proper development for 25