Lipscomb downs Vols

[StarkVegasSteve]

It's interesting to me how long it has taken MLB to realize that they had a huge cost savings opportunity for player development via College Baseball and their Caribbean academies. MiLB will never go away completely - but I think in the next round you will see it parred down to 3 MiLB teams per franchise; a development academy at their Spring training sites; their international academies. As MiLB players have pushed for more money - the reduction in teams became inevitable. College and JUCO will fill that Low-A gap, and fewer and fewer High School guys will be getting drafted.

The international academies was the first break in the dam. They figured out they could get these kids at 16 for pennies on the dollar, lock them up early, and then their first extension is coming at 20 or 21, when most of them have made their ML debut, instead of 26 or 27. That's a 100 million to 150 million dollar savings from the club's perspective.

[Goldendawg]

This it's been changing for several years with the portal, mlb draft cut in half, more very good player to go around for every one. Not like it was even 10 years ago.

So we can't maintain enough quality depth to consistently beat mid-week opposition even with our recruiting and portal use? Do they have starters better than our bench as these players had rather start at this level of college than commit to us and work for playing time? This seems to be the case in football and basketball so has it spread to SEC baseball and roster management?

[TStationDawg]

So we can't maintain enough quality depth to consistently beat mid-week opposition even with our recruiting and portal use? Do they have starters better than our bench as these players had rather start at this level of college than commit to us and work for playing time? This seems to be the case in football and basketball so has it spread to SEC baseball and roster management?

Believe it or not some lower level starters are just as good as our starters (oh how we've forgotten Austin Peay already). Also, no way do I blame a kid for going to a "lower level" of baseball to actually PLAY and improve via live reps, rather than trying to "earn" playing time behind some NIL diva who's not getting benched anyway, just to be a "part" of big time college baseball. And guess what? If he "earns" his stats at lesser program, guess who comes calling anyway? And they didn't have to sit a year or two in the meantime. More than one way to look at it. That's why JUCO ball is about to take a massive jump in talent just from '24 kids who D1 doesn't want because they are all getting 1 year players from portal rather than take project/recruit HS kids, which I don't blame them for that either.

[basedog]

Believe it or not some lower level starters are just as good as our starters (oh how we've forgotten Austin Peay already). Also, no way do I blame a kid for going to a "lower level" of baseball to actually PLAY and improve via live reps, rather than trying to "earn" playing time behind some NIL diva who's not getting benched anyway, just to be a "part" of big time college baseball. And guess what? If he "earns" his stats at lesser program, guess who comes calling anyway? And they didn't have to sit a year or two in the meantime. More than one way to look at it. That's why JUCO ball is about to take a massive jump in talent just from '24 kids who D1 doesn't want because they are all getting 1 year players from portal rather than take project/recruit HS kids, which I don't blame them for that either.

That is some good points. There are way more baseball players than football and basketball. Many many times a player is maturing a year or so after high school also. Yes to 34 on his take on mid majors being more competitive and 24 for his take on minor leagues being cut. But still with the Sec being the best conference it shouldn't be as much as say Sunbelt Conference upsets IMO.

[BrunswickDawg]

So we can't maintain enough quality depth to consistently beat mid-week opposition even with our recruiting and portal use? Do they have starters better than our bench as these players had rather start at this level of college than commit to us and work for playing time? This seems to be the case in football and basketball so has it spread to SEC baseball and roster management?

People need to stop acting like losing midweeks is something unique or new to this season and Lemonis.
1992 was my first on campus season. We had a solid team that went 40-22/15-9 and hosted.

I watched us lose to Bellhaven (NAIA), William Carey (NAIA), South Alabama, Mississippi College (DII), La Tech, Jackson State (SWAC), and North Alabama (DII) all in the same season. That's with our HOF coach in his 19th season.
We lost 13 OOC games that year. We had no business playing NAIA or DII schools - and we lost. Baseball is just a weird sport where those things happen.

[Todd4State]

It's interesting to me how long it has taken MLB to realize that they had a huge cost savings opportunity for player development via College Baseball and their Caribbean academies. MiLB will never go away completely - but I think in the next round you will see it parred down to 3 MiLB teams per franchise; a development academy at their Spring training sites; their international academies. As MiLB players have pushed for more money - the reduction in teams became inevitable. College and JUCO will fill that Low-A gap, and fewer and fewer High School guys will be getting drafted.

It took forever because MLB and college baseball were at odds with each other. I remember growing up and hearing from MLB people about how college baseball was glorified high school baseball and you went there to hurt your arm. This was the 80's-90's. It changed as you saw more and more college guys getting into pro baseball some and vice versa plus MLB saw that they were getting most of their players from college and that those players had a higher chance of success at least among American born players.

I always wondered that myself. Heck back in my day there were over 60 rounds of draft picks and a gazillion MiLB teams. You had all these guys in MiLB making $500 a month and then realizing after a year or two they weren't ever gonna make it and bailing out to try and start a career. It always seemed like kinda of a waste of resources and so many of those players were HS kids and many never went on to college and wound up scraping by for the rest of their lives. There's only so many Mike Piazza stories out there.

Yeah. The days of the "the Astros are going to pay me 2 million dollars and pay for my college even though I got drafted in the 40th round" are over.

The international academies was the first break in the dam. They figured out they could get these kids at 16 for pennies on the dollar, lock them up early, and then their first extension is coming at 20 or 21, when most of them have made their ML debut, instead of 26 or 27. That's a 100 million to 150 million dollar savings from the club's perspective.

The issue MLB has there are the private academies some of whom are basically pimping players out.

[Commercecomet24]

Believe it or not some lower level starters are just as good as our starters (oh how we've forgotten Austin Peay already). Also, no way do I blame a kid for going to a "lower level" of baseball to actually PLAY and improve via live reps, rather than trying to "earn" playing time behind some NIL diva who's not getting benched anyway, just to be a "part" of big time college baseball. And guess what? If he "earns" his stats at lesser program, guess who comes calling anyway? And they didn't have to sit a year or two in the meantime. More than one way to look at it. That's why JUCO ball is about to take a massive jump in talent just from '24 kids who D1 doesn't want because they are all getting 1 year players from portal rather than take project/recruit HS kids, which I don't blame them for that either.

This is it 100%! People are just not understanding that college baseball is not the baseball of Ron Polk. It's the 21st century and the talent is being more evenly spread out. Also any quality pitcher can shutdown any team on any given day, doesn't matter what level or how good the other talent is. Heck Jay Hook won games and threw shutouts in mlb and he's considered one of the worst pitchers of all time. People comparing football and basketball to baseball just don't get it. Baseball is not football/basketball, just not and never will be.

[Commercecomet24]

People need to stop acting like losing midweeks is something unique or new to this season and Lemonis.
1992 was my first on campus season. We had a solid team that went 40-22/15-9 and hosted.

I watched us lose to Bellhaven (NAIA), William Carey (NAIA), South Alabama, Mississippi College (DII), La Tech, Jackson State (SWAC), and North Alabama (DII) all in the same season. That's with our HOF coach in his 19th season.
We lost 13 OOC games that year. We had no business playing NAIA or DII schools - and we lost. Baseball is just a weird sport where those things happen.

Yep 100%! And as I said people on here need to quit comparing baseball to the other sports. In football or basketball you can give the ball to your best player every single time you need a big play. In baseball your best pitcher is not always on the mound or your best hitter isn't always at the plate when you need a big play. And even if your best hitter is up, he can be pitched around or walked and that negates him.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yep 100%! And as I said people on here need to quit comparing baseball to the other sports. In football or basketball you can give the ball to your best player every single time you need a big play. In baseball your best pitcher is not always on the mound or your best hitter isn't always at the plate when you need a big play. And even if your best hitter is up, he can be pitched around or walked and that negates him.

Pretty sure we even lost to MC in 85.

[Commercecomet24]

Pretty sure we even lost to MC in 85.

Yep. And that team was the most talented team we ever had. IMO.

[Goldendawg]

This is it 100%! People are just not understanding that college baseball is not the baseball of Ron Polk. It's the 21st century and the talent is being more evenly spread out. Also any quality pitcher can shutdown any team on any given day, doesn't matter what level or how good the other talent is. Heck Jay Hook won games and threw shutouts in mlb and he's considered one of the worst pitchers of all time. People comparing football and basketball to baseball just don't get it. Baseball is not football/basketball, just not and never will be.

So is playing time more important than NIL to baseball players in the portal? Seems like $ #1 along with guaranteed starting spot in football/basketball. College $sports is the Wild, Wild West with very few rules. Saw we are after a WR that we will be his 4th school in 4 years if we get him. Does progress toward a degree even count anymore? The two previous portal classes in football saw less than 50% of portal entrees getting a landing spot. Don't know about baseball or basketball %. Most think they are going Pro and looks as though educational opportunity being lost and given up big time.

[Commercecomet24]

So is playing time more important than NIL to baseball players in the portal? Seems like $ #1 along with guaranteed starting spot in football/basketball. College $sports is the Wild, Wild West with very few rules. Saw we are after a WR that we will be his 4th school in 4 years if we get him. Does progress toward a degree even count anymore? The two previous portal classes in football saw less than 50% of portal entrees getting a landing spot. Don't know about baseball or basketball %. Most think they are going Pro and looks as though educational opportunity being lost and given up big time.

Baseball is way different in that way. The majority of baseball players are very good students and wind up with degrees. Also the money(accept for the most elite)baseball players is not near what's being paid to football/basketball players. So yes baseball players want playing time and a degree at a much higher percentage than football/basketball. Plus as Tstaion said baseball players get playing time and produce, doesn't matter the level, juco, d2, d3, naia, scouts will find them and that have a shot at pro ball. The 3 sports are just so different. Comparing baseball to football/basketball as sports and players is like comparing apples to submarines.

[Todd4State]

It's interesting to me how long it has taken MLB to realize that they had a huge cost savings opportunity for player development via College Baseball and their Caribbean academies. MiLB will never go away completely - but I think in the next round you will see it parred down to 3 MiLB teams per franchise; a development academy at their Spring training sites; their international academies. As MiLB players have pushed for more money - the reduction in teams became inevitable. College and JUCO will fill that Low-A gap, and fewer and fewer High School guys will be getting drafted.

I always wondered that myself. Heck back in my day there were over 60 rounds of draft picks and a gazillion MiLB teams. You had all these guys in MiLB making $500 a month and then realizing after a year or two they weren't ever gonna make it and bailing out to try and start a career. It always seemed like kinda of a waste of resources and so many of those players were HS kids and many never went on to college and wound up scraping by for the rest of their lives. There's only so many Mike Piazza stories out there.

The international academies was the first break in the dam. They figured out they could get these kids at 16 for pennies on the dollar, lock them up early, and then their first extension is coming at 20 or 21, when most of them have made their ML debut, instead of 26 or 27. That's a 100 million to 150 million dollar savings from the club's perspective.

So is playing time more important than NIL to baseball players in the portal? Seems like $ #1 along with guaranteed starting spot in football/basketball. College $sports is the Wild, Wild West with very few rules. Saw we are after a WR that we will be his 4th school in 4 years if we get him. Does progress toward a degree even count anymore? The two previous portal classes in football saw less than 50% of portal entrees getting a landing spot. Don't know about baseball or basketball %. Most think they are going Pro and looks as though educational opportunity being lost and given up big time.

Baseball players tend to be more "big picture". Their ultimate goal isn't six figures from NIL. It's to get to year six in MLB and a 10 million dollar plus baseball deal.

[Commercecomet24]

Baseball players tend to be more "big picture". Their ultimate goal isn't six figures from NIL. It's to get to year six in MLB and a 10 million dollar plus baseball deal.

Right, you're dealing with different types of people and mentality in baseball, compared to others.

[StarkVegasSteve]

So is playing time more important than NIL to baseball players in the portal? Seems like $ #1 along with guaranteed starting spot in football/basketball. College $sports is the Wild, Wild West with very few rules. Saw we are after a WR that we will be his 4th school in 4 years if we get him. Does progress toward a degree even count anymore? The two previous portal classes in football saw less than 50% of portal entrees getting a landing spot. Don't know about baseball or basketball %. Most think they are going Pro and looks as though educational opportunity being lost and given up big time.

Only about 2% of baseball players are even getting NIL funds. You have to remember that college baseball is a primarily Southern sport. The ACC has like 6 teams that care, the Big 12 has like 6 teams that care, and the Pac 12 and Big 10 have combined about 8 teams that care. Then you have some mid majors (Southern, Campbell, Coastal, etc.) that care as well but can't give any NIL. The SEC and maybe a few ACC and Big 12 teams are the only one's giving NIL money to baseball players. I mean just look at the attendance from last Friday night from some of the Top 10 teams:

1. A&M- 7,968
2. Arky- 10,551
4. Clemson (Apr 19)- 4,532
6. Oregon St- 3,943
9. UC Irvine (Apr 19)- 920

Baseball just doesn't matter outside of the South so players are looking where they can get the most exposure and most PT more than NIL. That's why all the top transfers are transferring to Southern programs.

[Todd4State]

Only about 2% of baseball players are even getting NIL funds. You have to remember that college baseball is a primarily Southern sport. The ACC has like 6 teams that care, the Big 12 has like 6 teams that care, and the Pac 12 and Big 10 have combined about 8 teams that care. Then you have some mid majors (Southern, Campbell, Coastal, etc.) that care as well but can't give any NIL. The SEC and maybe a few ACC and Big 12 teams are the only one's giving NIL money to baseball players. I mean just look at the attendance from last Friday night from some of the Top 10 teams:

1. A&M- 7,968
2. Arky- 10,551
4. Clemson (Apr 19)- 4,532
6. Oregon St- 3,943
9. UC Irvine (Apr 19)- 920

Baseball just doesn't matter outside of the South so players are looking where they can get the most exposure and most PT more than NIL. That's why all the top transfers are transferring to Southern programs.

Even in the SEC it isn't the entire league that is bought in either.

[BrunswickDawg]

So is playing time more important than NIL to baseball players in the portal? Seems like $ #1 along with guaranteed starting spot in football/basketball. College $sports is the Wild, Wild West with very few rules. Saw we are after a WR that we will be his 4th school in 4 years if we get him. Does progress toward a degree even count anymore? The two previous portal classes in football saw less than 50% of portal entrees getting a landing spot. Don't know about baseball or basketball %. Most think they are going Pro and looks as though educational opportunity being lost and given up big time.

Baseball players want to play. If baseball players didn't just want to play, the 11.7 schollys would have killed the college game a long time ago. I think part of that is that is because of the minor league system. You can see across the country how hard it is to make it to MLB because we have so many minor league teams. You go and watch minor league games and think "these guys are awesome", and not a single one of them ever makes it to the Bigs. One of my best friends lived in Nashville before he moved to my home town. We were going thru his Nashville Sounds cards one day - Don Mattingly, Steve Balboni, Dave Righetti, all MLB guys. He throws one card out and says "this was the BEST guy on that team. He was a star, and the nicest guy. Never understood how he didn't make it to the Yankees." It was Buck Showalter (this was before he was an MLB manger).

It's also a sport where it is incredibly rare - like once or twice a generation - where you see a kid like Bob Feller, Dwight Gooden or Andruw Jones make to the Bigs at 19 or 20. At the same time you see guys battle to be rookies at 29-30 - or even a miracle guy like Jim Morris, who goes from High School coach to MLB at 35.

[basedog]

Even in the SEC it isn't the entire league that is bought in either.

This is true.

[Commercecomet24]

Baseball players want to play. If baseball players didn't just want to play, the 11.7 schollys would have killed the college game a long time ago. I think part of that is that is because of the minor league system. You can see across the country how hard it is to make it to MLB because we have so many minor league teams. You go and watch minor league games and think "these guys are awesome", and not a single one of them ever makes it to the Bigs. One of my best friends lived in Nashville before he moved to my home town. We were going thru his Nashville Sounds cards one day - Don Mattingly, Steve Balboni, Dave Righetti, all MLB guys. He throws one card out and says "this was the BEST guy on that team. He was a star, and the nicest guy. Never understood how he didn't make it to the Yankees." It was Buck Showalter (this was before he was an MLB manger).

It's also a sport where it is incredibly rare - like once or twice a generation - where you see a kid like Bob Feller, Dwight Gooden or Andruw Jones make to the Bigs at 19 or 20. At the same time you see guys battle to be rookies at 29-30 - or even a miracle guy like Jim Morris, who goes from High School coach to MLB at 35.

You learn over time if you've been involved with the game in coaching, teaching it, training that each step the level of talent gets greater and greater. When I was a younger man I thought guys I played with and against were gonna make it to the bigs and never did. I played with and against some great players, and very, very, very few made it to the bigs and most only had a cup of coffee. It teaches you to evaluate baseball talent a little differently and know how hard it is to make it. I've coached a lot of players that have played college ball and a few who have had stints in mlb, but it's just so hard and it's dog eat dog.

You're right about baseball players being built differently and wanting to just play. Heck made when I was younger I would've paid them to let me play in the minors, lol!