State of MSU at the Midway Point of SEC play

[DownwardDawg]

I would fire Gotro tonight. Our hitting is horrible. I horrible. We make decent pitchers look great and have for several years. Like you stated, our approach is bad and there are no adjustments.

Gotro has been terrible.

[MadDawg]

The TEAM and Lemonis is saying he is the leader. And that's honestly fine. Even in MLB it's not always the stars that are the actual leaders of the team. His "actions" have been overblown. The only reason he got ejected against Georgia is because the SEC 17ed it up royally over what amounted to a push. The bat flip that he did happens every weekend and the pearl clutching Ole Miss fans have no problem with it when their players do it- which has gone on for years with that program. And the pearl clutching MSU fans had no problem with MacNamee celebrating as much or more than Long did.

How many games did Jake Mangum cost us when he hit his hand against the dugout wall against Kentucky and was out for a couple of weeks a few years ago? Our fans never had any problems with his emotion. If teams do not like us celebrating then they don't need to serve up bombs to our "barely a SEC player" catcher. Especially in a game where their starting pitcher was emotional on the mound the whole time- which I had no problem with either.

Johnny Long may not start on my team- but he can be on my team any and every time.

He'd be my bullpen catcher.

[Saltydog]

I don't necessarily agree about the recruiting. I don't care what PG or any other service says, I know what I see. We don't have young position players that can step in and be serviceable backups, much less start and it's even more obvious with the pitchers. Stevens is the only youngster I see with a big time arm.

[Todd4State]

Todd I will disagree on 2 points:

1) I think we should have fired Lemo last year. The logic of "We needed to give him every chance possible to right the ship" sounds fine, but it also applies to football. Should we have given JoMo a year 3? Should we have given Arnett a year 2? I think if you have. A bad coach you rip the bandaid off immediately. Waste no more seasons under them.

2) recruiting. Like you can say his recruiting is good but this is year 6. What Fr do we have that can contribute? Not a one. Who's the best pitcher on our team Lemo got from HS? Loo? We have no 3rd starter or reliably middle reliever or closer. Our best 2 pitchers (when healthy) are Kahl and Dohm, both transfers. Hitting, who do we have in the lineup that's above SEC average in talent or potential? Jordan (HS), Hujsak (Tranfer), Hines (HS), Mershon (HS). The other 5 spots are not impressive from a pure talent or performance perspective. And we're starting 3 mediocre transfers (Koehler, Long, Larry) because Lemo can't fill those spots with talent. Overall the lineup is about 9th in the SEC as far as numbers go.

I'm not against Portal plays or somehow saying they don't count as far as giving Lemo props for bringing in talent. I'm saying you're supposed to use the Portal to bring in studs and sure, fill the odd hole. You're not supposed to use the Portal to bring in sub average SEC players to fill half the lineup because you can't recruit even mediocre guys from HS to fill those spots

Once again you are comparing football coaches to baseball coaches. It is completely different because of their recruiting cycles and also because of how potential replacements view the position. Moorhead had players fighting each other. That's not happening with Lemonis. Arnett had outside influences running the program and it was actually worse than Moorhead. Again- we don't have Lemonis listening to high school coaches for advice and Ron Polk meddling with things. That was what was going on with Arnett but with football coaches. We are going to probably be at worst a regional bubble team which is a far cry from a dumpster fire like football.

We have an upperclassman laden team. That's the primary reason why the freshman haven't played a lot. You may not see a ton of freshman playing a lot because of the portal. Stevens will be very good. Dotson will be very good. Makhai Grant had Tommy John and if he recovers he will be very good. Highfill has been injured. McKenzie was never going to beat out Hines. Cupp has been hurt but should play more soon. Mershon and Chance are essentially sophomores. When we add in more freshmen next year like Henry Allen and Dante Nori and hopefully Conrad Cason we will have enough talent to win like we expect. The talent we have now isn't bad- but some of it isn't being used properly. Especially Stevens. When that happens players will not be maximized and to the untrained appear to be "not talented".

[Todd4State]

Had long made the tag and went along his way, we had a legit shot at winning the Georgia game. Had long just did a normal bat flip instead of carrying it to 1b and slinging it at their dug out, Bianco stays in the dug out and doesn't get his team fired up. Long's DA antics have possibly cost us 2 wins.

Bianco has acted like a bitch for years. I don't know that Long's "antics" would have changed how he acted honestly.

[Pancho]

Bianco acts like he grew up sheltered in the grove

[Pancho]

Once again you are comparing football coaches to baseball coaches. It is completely different because of their recruiting cycles and also because of how potential replacements view the position. Moorhead had players fighting each other. That's not happening with Lemonis. Arnett had outside influences running the program and it was actually worse than Moorhead. Again- we don't have Lemonis listening to high school coaches for advice and Ron Polk meddling with things. That was what was going on with Arnett but with football coaches. We are going to probably be at worst a regional bubble team which is a far cry from a dumpster fire like football.

We have an upperclassman laden team. That's the primary reason why the freshman haven't played a lot. You may not see a ton of freshman playing a lot because of the portal. Stevens will be very good. Dotson will be very good. Makhai Grant had Tommy John and if he recovers he will be very good. Highfill has been injured. McKenzie was never going to beat out Hines. Cupp has been hurt but should play more soon. Mershon and Chance are essentially sophomores. When we add in more freshmen next year like Henry Allen and Dante Nori and hopefully Conrad Cason we will have enough talent to win like we expect. The talent we have now isn't bad- but some of it isn't being used properly. Especially Stevens. When that happens players will not be maximized and to the untrained appear to be "not talented".

I am only asking but which ones are supposed to replace hines and DJ in the batting order and produce?

[Commercecomet24]

Bianco acts like he grew up sheltered in the grove

lol that's awesome!

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Once again you are comparing football coaches to baseball coaches. It is completely different because of their recruiting cycles and also because of how potential replacements view the position. Moorhead had players fighting each other. That's not happening with Lemonis. Arnett had outside influences running the program and it was actually worse than Moorhead. Again- we don't have Lemonis listening to high school coaches for advice and Ron Polk meddling with things. That was what was going on with Arnett but with football coaches. We are going to probably be at worst a regional bubble team which is a far cry from a dumpster fire like football. And "how it looks to other coaches"? Come on. No coach will shy away from our job because we fired a coach that missed Hoover in year 4 and 5. If a HC candidate fears he will be that bad that late in his tenure, we don't want him.

We have an upperclassman laden team. That's the primary reason why the freshman haven't played a lot. You may not see a ton of freshman playing a lot because of the portal. Stevens will be very good. Dotson will be very good. Makhai Grant had Tommy John and if he recovers he will be very good. Highfill has been injured. McKenzie was never going to beat out Hines. Cupp has been hurt but should play more soon. Mershon and Chance are essentially sophomores. When we add in more freshmen next year like Henry Allen and Dante Nori and hopefully Conrad Cason we will have enough talent to win like we expect. The talent we have now isn't bad- but some of it isn't being used properly. Especially Stevens. When that happens players will not be maximized and to the untrained appear to be "not talented".

1) how can you cite "recruiting cycles" as being a reason to keep Lemo but not a football coach? Lemo sucked in year 4 and 5 of the Portal era. Last year was 100% players he signed, and almost entirely guys he chose to pursue.

2) it's an "upper classman laden team": I'm not asking anyone to replace Hines at 1B. I'm asking a Fr to be able to hit (DH), or replace bad hitters at 3B and 2B. Chance is also not a stud in the OF. That's 4 spots where a Fr can get in the lineup but non are capable of it. If Mershon was a year younger he'd have replaced Larry by now. If Jordan were a year younger he'd replace Chance. If Highfill was a year younger and healthy he'd be the DH. Pitching, you're placing a lot of weight that Grant is a stud. Easy to say about injured players. If Grant was healthy but Stevens was hurt you could easily talk about the "stud lefty and hitter who if he was healthy would fill the LHP and DH role"

The fact is, we have no Fr that can hit at this point in time, and no Fr contributors on the mound, despite ample opportunity and need.

[Pancho]

We can all assume that issue alone is cause for enuf concern to cut ties

[parabrave]

Todd one thing you talked about was lack of Player Development. One thing aparty to this is the defensive regression of the players. Players are supposed to be improving through the season not getting worse. 2 things that this is indicative of is bad coaching and/or the just don't give a shi^ anymore. Probably both.

[WSOPdawg]

I am only asking but which ones are supposed to replace hines and DJ in the batting order and produce?

^^^ This all day. Those players are not currently on the team.

For that, we'll need to hit the portal hard for the next Brayden Montgomery, Billy Amick, Tommy White, Colton Ledbetter, Sonny Dicharia, etc (and preferrably two of these types). Surrounding a couple of these type transfers with Mershon, Chance, Cupp may allow for the M over S to field a competitive team next year offensively.

[ScooterDog]

I?m glad others have seen Gotros inability to coach batters. I?ve said that all year long.

[BigDawg81]

I would fire Gotro tonight. Our hitting is horrible. I horrible. We make decent pitchers look great and have for several years. Like you stated, our approach is bad and there are no adjustments.

It?s 2 strikes before State even starts competing at the plate. Hell, half of the time the batter looks at strike 3. IMO, if the pitcher is a strike thrower, why are the batters not aggressive? They have a pitcher of a 6 ERA and they look like Greg Maddux against our lineup.

[Todd4State]

Todd I will disagree on 2 points:

1) I think we should have fired Lemo last year. The logic of "We needed to give him every chance possible to right the ship" sounds fine, but it also applies to football. Should we have given JoMo a year 3? Should we have given Arnett a year 2? I think if you have. A bad coach you rip the bandaid off immediately. Waste no more seasons under them.

2) recruiting. Like you can say his recruiting is good but this is year 6. What Fr do we have that can contribute? Not a one. Who's the best pitcher on our team Lemo got from HS? Loo? We have no 3rd starter or reliably middle reliever or closer. Our best 2 pitchers (when healthy) are Kahl and Dohm, both transfers. Hitting, who do we have in the lineup that's above SEC average in talent or potential? Jordan (HS), Hujsak (Tranfer), Hines (HS), Mershon (HS). The other 5 spots are not impressive from a pure talent or performance perspective. And we're starting 3 mediocre transfers (Koehler, Long, Larry) because Lemo can't fill those spots with talent. Overall the lineup is about 9th in the SEC as far as numbers go.

I'm not against Portal plays or somehow saying they don't count as far as giving Lemo props for bringing in talent. I'm saying you're supposed to use the Portal to bring in studs and sure, fill the odd hole. You're not supposed to use the Portal to bring in sub average SEC players to fill half the lineup because you can't recruit even mediocre guys from HS to fill those spots

1) Of course you disagree because you have a football mentality and that doesn't apply to baseball. Your way would have led to our baseball version of Rick Ray because no coach would have come here after we fired a coach two years removed from a NC with a pitching staff that had an ERA over 7. Then what? You "rip the band off again" because the next guy can't coach? Guess what happens to scabs if you rip them off before they are given a chance to heal- they take longer to heal. Joe Moorhead was given a chance to right the ship after he won the piss and miss and he screwed it up in the bowl game. Bad example by you. Arnett was our football version of Rick Ray. Lemonis had been to the equivalent of the BCS playoffs twice and won a NC. Arnett- not even close. Let me ask you this- should we have fired Dan Mullen after 2016 when Peter Sirmon screwed up the defense? Same thing here. Except Dan took the opportunity to turn the team around and did it and Lemonis has not. And because of that Dan was offered an extension to stay and Lemonis will be fired because of how they responded when given the opportunity. And our same top targets are in the exact same places they were last season as far as coaching candidates go. That should tell you a little about how often baseball coaches move in and of itself. Haire turned down Georgia to stay at Campbell.

2) So you're saying he can't recruit because none of the freshmen have taken over the team? FYI- Will Clark had to wait until Chris Maloney was injured to start. Brent Rooker redshirted. Ethan Small had an ERA through the roof and had Tommy John just like Grant. Hunter Renfroe looked completely lost as a freshman. Kendall Graveman got beat by Jackson State as a freshman. I could go on. Let me put this in terms that you can understand- if our freshmen in football don't contribute outside of a couple of guys does that make Lebby a bad recruiter? No. Loo is a good pitcher. Will Bednar turned out pretty good. The players in the portal are a crap shoot. LSU and you thought Eric Holman was going to be Paul Skenes 2.0 and lead them to another NC. That's not going to happen is it? I'm not sure what you want Lemonis to do. If he misses on a player do you want him to try to fill it with someone out of the portal or not? It sounds like you can't make up your mind here. Foxhall hurt our pitching recruiting badly. Stevens, Dotson, and Grant have really good potential. Highfill got hurt- not Lemonis's fault. McKenzie is not going to supplant Hines who is one of the school's top 10 home run hitters. Cupp has been hurt otherwise he would have been playing in the field over Larry with Mershon moving to second. Our best third base and CF prospects are in high school right now. I'm sure we'll go to the portal to try to fill third base anyway. Stevens should be starting at DH- that's on Lemonis. It's not because he is a bad player. Chance is a good solid college player. You need a couple on your team. He will get better over the next couple of years. Kohler got hurt in game one and hasn't hit the same since. Long hit a game tying home run in the 12th and is the team leader. Not a bad pick up. Larry is streaky. You also said that Khal Stephen wasn't any good and he's our ace. Probably will end up being a better pick up that Holman. The issue is Lemonis isn't developing these players to their full potential because he doesn't pay attention to the details. That doesn't mean the players are bad. It means they're poorly coached and underdeveloped. Don't believe me? Go look at Cade Smith and Eric Cerentola's stats in the minor leagues.

One last thing about the portal and freshmen- you're going to see less and less freshmen contribute right away because coaches knows that experience wins in the SEC. You have a classic case of "I only watch Mississippi State baseball" and no one else.

[CaptainObvious]

I'll say this and stand by it. If Ole Miss reverts back to their crappy ways the rest of the season, Bianco, who is a hell of a lot better coach than Lemonis, will be gone 2 years from winning a Natty! They will not wait for him to "fix it". If LSU continues to tumble deeper into the abyss and fail to make the tourney, Jay will be a hot seat coach next year! Red Hot!

[The Federalist Engineer]

Lessee ... Long is batting .250 with 1 extra base hit (the HR) ALL YEAR. He only has 9 RBIs all year. He does a pretty good job at framing pitches and blocking wild pitches but can't throw anyone out at 2nd.
And this is the MSU Poster Child for "fire & passion"?? He's barely an SEC caliber player.
His fire & passion cost us the GA game last week.

His backup, Powell is batting .294 and has 3 less RBI while starting half the games Long has started. He's actually hitting .429 in conference on only 7 AB tho.

If Long is the leader of this team then we're in trouble ... in more ways than one.
And not sure where this love affair with him is coming from but ... whatever.

Long and Powell are emergency backups for Ross Highfill. If RH were healthy, we would only have seen Long versus SWAC teams. Long was also a backup or co-starter at Pitt, so that's the reason he's playing. No other option in the roster.

[Pancho]

the last catcher we had was Tanner.

[The Federalist Engineer]

1) how can you cite "recruiting cycles" as being a reason to keep Lemo but not a football coach? Lemo sucked in year 4 and 5 of the Portal era. Last year was 100% players he signed, and almost entirely guys he chose to pursue.

2) it's an "upper classman laden team": I'm not asking anyone to replace Hines at 1B. I'm asking a Fr to be able to hit (DH), or replace bad hitters at 3B and 2B. Chance is also not a stud in the OF. That's 4 spots where a Fr can get in the lineup but non are capable of it. If Mershon was a year younger he'd have replaced Larry by now. If Jordan were a year younger he'd replace Chance. If Highfill was a year younger and healthy he'd be the DH. Pitching, you're placing a lot of weight that Grant is a stud. Easy to say about injured players. If Grant was healthy but Stevens was hurt you could easily talk about the "stud lefty and hitter who if he was healthy would fill the LHP and DH role"

The fact is, we have no Fr that can hit at this point in time, and no Fr contributors on the mound, despite ample opportunity and need.

The freshman are not just bad, they look like frat boys in store-bought uniforms pretending to be players. Is the plan that the Freshman pay for personal Hitting Coaches and learn from the summer coaches? Only Stevens looks competitive. I bet Stevens at Stanford would be a Freshman All American.

Another thing, Slate Alford and Lane Forsythe have Chipper Jones / Gary Sheffield numbers compared to Kohler. This is a sign that Jake G is not close to maximizing the players.

[Pancho]

My money is on the "can't get blood from a turnip" when it deal with kohler and an SEC bat..........