So y'all ready to never see a regional at the Dude again?

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

Because many people in Mississippi (and other states too) are obsessed with college sports to the point that reducing its availability will make some people change their minds, just to keep the ability to host post-season play. Sports are that important to many. It's kind of a "hit them where it hurts" type thing.

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I would agree with this. However Mississippi has many citizens that are Alabama and LSU fans and fans of other schools. These people don't give a damn if the instate schools play a regional.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

This^ Also, the people crying "lEt tHu pEopLe DecIde!" willfully forget that in 1894 the legislature "decided" to adopt the current flag, as an obvious antagonistic middle finger to those tyrants up north (how brave of them, lol)....sure did show 'em.

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That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

I honestly don't see it getting changed anytime soon. The sports that we and Ole Miss can host are niche sports that don't generate a lot of money. Softball, baseball, women's basketball, tennis. We're also run by a backwards good ole boy system that would probably put it to a popular vote and then find a way to rig it by suppressing votes. They'd probably close polling stations, so people would have to wait in line for hours to vote. Mississippi has a terrible history with voter suppression, so there's no need to think that would change.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

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One of the more interesting conspiracy theories about Lincoln's assassination is he favored a total rebuild of the South. He was going to fully restore the South. It was going to be a massive undertaking costing more money than the country had ever spent. But Lincoln thought it should be done. The generals were terrified of another war. They thought giving the South money to rebuild and restore would embolden them to secede once again. They wanted the South to remain poor and beaten.

Rhett Butler said it best:
Look at them, all these poor, tragic people. The South is sinking to its knees. It?ll never rise again. THE CAUSE!! The cause of living in the past is dying right in front of us.

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Originally Posted by Dawg2003

I honestly don't see it getting changed anytime soon. The sports that we and Ole Miss can host are niche sports that don't generate a lot of money. Softball, baseball, women's basketball, tennis. We're also run by a backwards good ole boy system that would probably put it to a popular vote and then find a way to rig it by suppressing votes. They'd probably close polling stations, so people would have to wait in line for hours to vote. Mississippi has a terrible history with voter suppression, so there's no need to think that would change.

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If they put it to a vote, no one will have to rig it. The old flag will win again. The reason I think this?? I have spoken to a handful of Mississippian's this week that watch sports but aren't diehards like a bunch of us. They have told me that they could care less if any school in Mississippi ever hosts a regional again. The want a vote so the old flag will win again. Mississippian's do not like being forced into a corner. If we would have voted a few months ago, I think we might would have gotten a new flag because the older folks didn't have much passion around it anymore. Now, the older folks will come out in droves to show up the NCAA. It is what it is.

No one likes being forced into a corner, but the problem is that this state had to be forced to end slavery and Jim Crow by the federal government. It makes you wonder how long slavery and Jim Crow would have been legal if the state hadn't been forced to stop it.

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Originally Posted by Rex54

Pathetic. Oh no the sick people that have nearly destroyed all sense of normalcy and community in America have been laughing at us. Maybe it's time we laugh at them and stop worrying about going along with the worldview of the media and corporate America in so many facets of society.

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I'm sorry you're incapable of seeing the need for change here. Luckily for the world, it will move forward whether you like it or not. You have the choice--build Mississippi into an industrial leader in the 21st century in engineering, science, arts, and politics. You can be the innovator and take the future by the reins. Or, you can be left in the dust. Time and time again, Mississippi has chosen the latter option. I hope this time is different.

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Originally Posted by Dawg2003

I honestly don't see it getting changed anytime soon. The sports that we and Ole Miss can host are niche sports that don't generate a lot of money. Softball, baseball, women's basketball, tennis. We're also run by a backwards good ole boy system that would probably put it to a popular vote and then find a way to rig it by suppressing votes. They'd probably close polling stations, so people would have to wait in line for hours to vote. Mississippi has a terrible history with voter suppression, so there's no need to think that would change.

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I'm just floored that there would be that many people that would care what is or is not on the state flag anyway. I mean when ZERO of your public institutions in the state are willing to fly the flag along with a lot of the larger municipalities, I mean what is anyone's point in wanting to keep the darn thing? At least there is something concrete to be gained by changing it (at least in the sports world) while the only reason not to is pride I guess where folks can say, hey, we showed them.

BTW, I figure the next step if the flag doesn't change is that MS public universities will not be allowed to have their teams even participate in NCAA events. Sort of a reverse of 1963, instead of MS refusing to participate, the NCAA won't allow MS to participate.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

I'm just floored that there would be that many people that would care what is or is not on the state flag anyway. I mean when ZERO of your public institutions in the state are willing to fly the flag along with a lot of the larger municipalities, I mean what is anyone's point in wanting to keep the darn thing? At least there is something concrete to be gained by changing it (at least in the sports world) while the only reason not to is pride I guess where folks can say, hey, we showed them.

BTW, I figure the next step if the flag doesn't change is that MS public universities will not be allowed to have their teams even participate in NCAA events. Sort of a reverse of 1963, instead of MS refusing to participate, the NCAA won't allow MS to participate.

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The people that want to keep it must be redneck bubbas who don't want muh libruls tellin' them what to do. There are also people who romanticize the old South and think the Civil War was just about "keeping our way of life." It's no wonder people make fun of us.

But yeah, I agree that it's going the way of us being kicked out of the SEC or not allowed to be part of the NCAA.

Mississippi as a whole is so ******* stupid and backward. I hate it just as much as i love it.

We had a moment a month back where changing the flag would have sent a message of hope that would reflect across the US. The state that is a symbol for America's tragic, racist past could have been the last state to remove the confederate flag and still been praised for it. Doing something like that and offering a statement of how Mississippi stands with it's brothers and sisters regardless of race, gender, or religion would have been so powerful.

Instead...Mississippi will be forced into it kicking and screaming. Probably will sue the NCAA over it. We will all look like a bunch of racist, redneck fools because of our "leaders".

What a bunch of clowns we have running this state.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

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You should have stopped at "I'm not a historian" Read what the the guys that wrote the Mississippi Constitution said about what their purpose was. It was not to "bring the country together" It was to prevent Blacks from being part of this country. That's why the statues were raised and the flag was chosen...

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

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This is not true at all. Almost all of those statues were erected solely to intimidate blacks or as a message that white supremacy wasn't going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by SheltonChoked

You should have stopped at "I'm not a historian" Read what the the guys that wrote the Mississippi Constitution said about what their purpose was. It was not to "bring the country together" It was to prevent Blacks from being part of this country. That's why the statues were raised and the flag was chosen...

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I agree about the flag, they made no bones about it. The statues are more complicated. You see very similar ones in the north. Those were to honor the soldiers who fought. Those in the South were too. Everybody seems to want to equate statues with history. They aren't the same thing. History shows that monuments and memorials always exist at the current generation's pleasure. You can erase statues, the history will still exist.

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Originally Posted by smootness

This is not true at all. Almost all of those statues were erected solely to intimidate blacks or as a message that white supremacy wasn't going anywhere.

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It's not that clear cut.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

I'm just floored that there would be that many people that would care what is or is not on the state flag anyway. I mean when ZERO of your public institutions in the state are willing to fly the flag along with a lot of the larger municipalities, I mean what is anyone's point in wanting to keep the darn thing? At least there is something concrete to be gained by changing it (at least in the sports world) while the only reason not to is pride I guess where folks can say, hey, we showed them.

BTW, I figure the next step if the flag doesn't change is that MS public universities will not be allowed to have their teams even participate in NCAA events. Sort of a reverse of 1963, instead of MS refusing to participate, the NCAA won't allow MS to participate.

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Sayre's law states, in a formulation quoted by Charles Philip Issawi: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." By way of corollary, it adds: "That is why academic politics are so bitter." Sayre's law is named after Wallace Stanley Sayre (1905?1972), U.S. political scientist and professor at Columbia University.

It's why as the US has gotten better and better about stamping out injustice, we have more and more people whose lives and livelihoods are dedicated to fighting injustice.

This is just the same thing from a different direction.

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Originally Posted by Dawgology

Mississippi as a whole is so ******* stupid and backward. I hate it just as much as i love it.

We had a moment a month back where changing the flag would have sent a message of hope that would reflect across the US. The state that is a symbol for America's tragic, racist past could have been the last state to remove the confederate flag and still been praised for it. Doing something like that and offering a statement of how Mississippi stands with it's brothers and sisters regardless of race, gender, or religion would have been so powerful.

Instead...Mississippi will be forced into it kicking and screaming. Probably will sue the NCAA over it. We will all look like a bunch of racist, redneck fools because of our "leaders".

What a bunch of clowns we have running this state.

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I feel the same way. I love my state but damn, it's so backwards sometimes. We aren't even reporting Covid numbers anymore because we have ancient software. You can't make this stuff up.

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Originally Posted by msstatelp1

It's not to penalize the universities, it's to penalize the state. The universities are collateral damage.

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Years ago the NFL took a Super Bowl away from Tempe because Arizona didn't pass the MLK holiday. This is nothing compared to that.

I mean to the country, not to me. Losing the regionals is a lot bigger to me than Arizona losing a Super Bowl. Losing MSU regionals is bigger to me than if New Orleans lost a Super Bowl.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

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States Rights was a component, but by no means was it even the dominant belief among the founders. The American experiment in governance was unlike anything else at the time, and to a degree still is. The intent was to strike a balance between the will of the people, the rights of the states, and centralized national government. The founders attempted to create a structure with the "states" the primary focus via the Articles of Confederation. It failed miserably and was abandoned after only 7 years. The Constitution delineates powers, but clearly places the Federal Government above the states via Article VI, and only cedes power to states as decided by the Federal Government. Of course - that was not without controversy, or without challenges by the States. Almost immediately, states tested the power of the Federal government - whether it was the Alien and Sedition Acts or the debates between early republicans vs. federalists, or Nullification. The Constitution binds the States and the Federal government together - but ultimately the Fed wins out most of the time because the Constitution is built to allow that to happen.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

States Rights was a component, but by no means was it even the dominant belief among the founders. The American experiment in governance was unlike anything else at the time, and to a degree still is. The intent was to strike a balance between the will of the people, the rights of the states, and centralized national government. The founders attempted to create a structure with the "states" the primary focus via the Articles of Confederation. It failed miserably and was abandoned after only 7 years. The Constitution delineates powers, but clearly places the Federal Government above the states via Article VI, and only cedes power to states as decided by the Federal Government. Of course - that was not without controversy, or without challenges by the States. Almost immediately, states tested the power of the Federal government - whether it was the Alien and Sedition Acts or the debates between early republicans vs. federalists, or Nullification. The Constitution binds the States and the Federal government together - but ultimately the Fed wins out most of the time because the Constitution is built to allow that to happen.

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This is incorrect. It took a while for the constitutional structure to be flipped from where powers were presumed to be held by the states unless specifically provided otherwise to one where powers were presumed to be held by the federal government unless specifically proscribed. While there was disagreement between the founders as to just how much power the national government should have, the ones that favored a limited federal government won, at least nominally. While the supreme court has more or less interpreted it out of the constitution, we still nominally have a federal government of limited, enumerated powers with every authority not specifically delegated to the federal government held by the states or people.

We still had a real distinction between intrastate and interstate commerce until the great depression. Until the series of obamacare cases, it was still a live question as to whether there were meaningful limits on the federal government's powers under the commerce clause besides those specifically proscribed in the bill of rights.