What some of you guys don't get...

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10-18-2020, 10:32 AM
Cowbell

What some of you guys don't get...

And some of us do...
I completely understand that coaches have to recruit to their system. The problem is, at MSU, we will struggle to ever have a perfect roster. But hey we are all used to that.
Let's look at Arnette. He has taken a bunch of young guys and made a defense that works. He has made some adjustments and there are some things he would do different if he has the personnel.
But let's look at our offense. We have more weapons on offense than we were suppose to have on defense. Yet we continue to fall on our face. We don't make adjustments. Square peg-round hole. The problem I have with this is a coach's job is to win games. Do the best you can with what you have. And we are not doing that - we are not looking at all the players we have and saying, if we can add these few wrinkles it will get us by until 2021. Or hey, let's run the qb a little to stretch the defense. Or why don't we install this new play that the defense will never expect. Or let's keep running the qb out that gives the other defense a chance at jump balls.
There are guys on this team that will never play college ball again. There are fans who go to the games today and spend money to support us today and not for 2022. We need to quit trying to make the offense fit and we need to conform the offense to help us win games now. We have lost two games that we should have won if we make adjustments. The reason this is a problem is coaches that do this will take a NC quality team and lose two close games because they didn't adjust for insufficiencies. Coaches that don't adjust for insufficiencies will never work at MSU. Never. They can win games, but there will always be a ceiling and there will always be games that we "should" have won. Unless Leach decides to make some changes to his philosophy he will not do anything special here.
10-18-2020, 10:36 AM
Cowbell

Lane Kiffin is a great example of this. He has done a heck of a job with what he was handed.
10-18-2020, 10:43 AM
dawgday166

Kiffin was down 20-0 at half to Ark yesterday. Corral had a bad day as QB. When your QB is sucking bad and turning ball over those things tend to happen.
10-18-2020, 10:44 AM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

Kiffin was down 20-0 at half to Ark yesterday. Corral had a bad day as QB. When your QB is sucking bad and turning ball over those things tend to happen.

How many points did they end up scoring on offense?
10-18-2020, 10:47 AM
dawgday166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

How many points did they end up scoring on offense?

But ... maybe Arky slacked off being up so much. Yea he scored pts. And yea, I get it Leach is sucking hind tit.
10-18-2020, 10:47 AM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

And some of us do...
I completely understand that coaches have to recruit to their system. The problem is, at MSU, we will struggle to ever have a perfect roster. But hey we are all used to that.
Let's look at Arnette. He has taken a bunch of young guys and made a defense that works. He has made some adjustments and there are some things he would do different if he has the personnel.
But let's look at our offense. We have more weapons on offense than we were suppose to have on defense. Yet we continue to fall on our face. We don't make adjustments. Square peg-round hole. The problem I have with this is a coach's job is to win games. Do the best you can with what you have. And we are not doing that - we are not looking at all the players we have and saying, if we can add these few wrinkles it will get us by until 2021. Or hey, let's run the qb a little to stretch the defense. Or why don't we install this new play that the defense will never expect. Or let's keep running the qb out that gives the other defense a chance at jump balls.
There are guys on this team that will never play college ball again. There are fans who go to the games today and spend money to support us today and not for 2022. We need to quit trying to make the offense fit and we need to conform the offense to help us win games now. We have lost two games that we should have won if we make adjustments. The reason this is a problem is coaches that do this will take a NC quality team and lose two close games because they didn't adjust for insufficiencies. Coaches that don't adjust for insufficiencies will never work at MSU. Never. They can win games, but there will always be a ceiling and there will always be games that we "should" have won. Unless Leach decides to make some changes to his philosophy he will not do anything special here.

Good post.

Maybe us so struggling so much immediately is a blessing in disguise as it'll force Leach to adjust something's that with marginal success he never would've adjusted.
10-18-2020, 10:49 AM
Todd4State

Leach has a history of taking underrated players and making his allegedly very simple system work. What does that say about our players considering that Moorhead couldn't get them to work either?
10-18-2020, 10:51 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Leach has a history of taking underrated players and making his allegedly very simple system work. What does that say about our players considering that Moorhead couldn't get them to work either?

Remember, we also were lights out better in practice with Moorhead as well.
10-18-2020, 10:56 AM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Good post.

Maybe us so struggling so much immediately is a blessing in disguise as it'll force Leach to adjust something's that with marginal success he never would've adjusted.

In my opinion, that's our only hope at this point. Leach teams have never been this bad offensively.
10-18-2020, 10:59 AM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

Remember, we also were lights out better in practice with Moorhead as well.

Practice is bullshit. No one- even the coaches- know what is going to happen in a game based off of practice. Holloway looked good in practice too.

It's also BS because Rogers looked better in practice allegedly and he still didn't start.
10-18-2020, 11:07 AM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Leach has a history of taking underrated players and making his allegedly very simple system work. What does that say about our players considering that Moorhead couldn't get them to work either?

I think we need to stop calling this system simple. It obviously takes the right type of QB to run it.
10-18-2020, 11:13 AM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgday166

But ... maybe Arky slacked off being up so much. Yea he scored pts. And yea, I get it Leach is sucking hind tit.

That was actually a back and forth game in the second half
10-18-2020, 11:42 AM
Cooterpoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

How many points did they end up scoring on offense?

7 more points than us and we passes on 6 points.
10-18-2020, 01:49 PM
Percho

Did we see quick tosses to running backs yesterday? Did we see a couple of tight end sets yesterday?

What did we not see very seldom? Five block three.
10-18-2020, 01:57 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Percho

Did we see quick tosses to running backs yesterday? Did we see a couple of tight end sets yesterday?

What did we not see very seldom? Five block three.

Well isn't really 1vs1 on each edge?
10-18-2020, 02:01 PM
R2Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I think we need to stop calling this system simple. It obviously takes the right type of QB to run it.

Not sure why that bothers you but if it is complicated (I don't think it is) then we sure don't need it. We had Joe study and call perfect play last two years. That ain't gonna work. If his O is so complicated then why does Leach carry a notecard during game.
10-18-2020, 03:49 PM
calidawg

I understand what you are saying but everyone needs to get this in their head....

You are absolutely wasting your time if you think or post about Leach adapting his offense and his system in any sort of dramatic way. It isn't happening. We aren't going to throw in power run plays, we aren't going to mix in Schrader for some more option we aren't going to run the ball 40%+ a game because our current team is built for it.. it isn't happening.

The offensive system is the offensive system period and we need to find the players to run the system.

I do believe we will get things moving once the QB situation is settled... everything else about our football program is much improved.. defense, special teams, strength and conditioning, and discipline.. those 4 parts of our program are back up to SEC caliber.. I still believe Leach will be here a long time and we will have a 10 win season again in the next 3 to 5 years.
10-18-2020, 04:05 PM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

That was actually a back and forth game in the second half

Yea, I kept an eye on OM-ARK while I was watching our game. OM still moved the ball a lot but got stopped twice on 4th and goal by ARK. But even with that and a ton of turnovers, they still had the ball back with about 2:30 to go down 26-21 with a chance to drive and win the game. Now Corral did throw the pick six there to seal the loss but I was surprised that the Arkansas offense was so poor against the OM defense especially in the 2nd half. A lot of what Arkansas scored was off of turnovers. If OM can just get their defense to the not so good level rather than being historically bad they are going to be a handful because they have a dynamic offense. Not much doubt of that at this point. I would love to have anything close to the offensive production Kiffin is getting.
10-18-2020, 05:47 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I think we need to stop calling this system simple. It obviously takes the right type of QB to run it.

Well yeah- you have to have a QB that won't stand there confused. Costello even at Stanford was indecisive at times. That's one reason why he came to MSU to show that he could make decisions more quickly and he has failed at that.

My point is with some of our meathead fans when we try to throw the ball on offense whether it was Croom or Moorhead- "Oh, it's sooo complicated. They just don't understand it- Mississippi players can't understand that stuff. We need to run the QB all the time and be Mississippi State!"

Ironically the hippie from Stanford is the one with no clue while the QB from Brandon, Mississippi understands what to do much better essentially as a true freshman.

The bottom line and what it comes down to- the QB has to get the ball out quicker. There is no anticipation from Costello. Rogers did that and we all saw what happened. My only thing with Rogers right now is he needs to develop his deep passing game a little more- which will come in time as he gets more experience. Once Will develops that we will be able to attack zone defenses deep a little more and we'll be able to really take off. As it is with Will we're going to have to take 7-15 yards at a time which is fine for now. But we won't be quite as explosive in the short term- which with our defense is probably OK.
10-18-2020, 05:48 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by maroonmania

Yea, I kept an eye on OM-ARK while I was watching our game. OM still moved the ball a lot but got stopped twice on 4th and goal by ARK. But even with that and a ton of turnovers, they still had the ball back with about 2:30 to go down 26-21 with a chance to drive and win the game. Now Corral did throw the pick six there to seal the loss but I was surprised that the Arkansas offense was so poor against the OM defense especially in the 2nd half. A lot of what Arkansas scored was off of turnovers. If OM can just get their defense to the not so good level rather than being historically bad they are going to be a handful because they have a dynamic offense. Not much doubt of that at this point. I would love to have anything close to the offensive production Kiffin is getting.

That sounds a lot like another team in the SEC that I know well except replace defense with offense.