U of Florida to officially drop the "Gator Bait" cheer...

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Originally Posted by ScoobaDawg

Im very much in favor of a lot of things changing right now actually (looking at you Aunt Jemima) but... this.. it had no direct connection with those images. I just can't make the connection... that's too far for me
Do we ban cotton because it was historically harvested by slaves, same with peanuts?

This is the one where i say.. how far does it go i guess. unless someone can prove to me a connection.

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This is the most important question:

To me, here is what I'm thinking.

1. Is a person famous or celebrated because he was involved in slavery/racism or the protection of slavery or is the person famous or celebrated for other things but just happened to own slaves, as was the custom at the time? This separates George Washington from Nathan Bedford Forest.

2. Is the origin of a slogan based on racial or slavery stereotypes or a somewhat direct symbol of the confederacy? This is why I'm OK with Gator bait being eradicated. However, Tiger Bait should be fine because Tigers didn't even exist in the Americas till zoos become common place. So there shouldn't be any racial stereotypes that have to do with Tiger Bait.

I'm not convicted on this. Just thinking out loud about where the line should possibly be. I can be convinced otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

This is the most important question:

To me, here is what I'm thinking.

1. Is a person famous or celebrated because he was involved in slavery/racism or the protection of slavery or is the person famous or celebrated for other things but just happened to own slaves, as was the custom at the time? This separates George Washington from Nathan Bedford Forest.

2. Is the origin of a slogan based on racial or slavery stereotypes or a somewhat direct symbol of the confederacy? This is why I'm OK with Gator bait being eradicated. However, Tiger Bait should be fine because Tigers didn't even exist in the Americas till zoos become common place. So there shouldn't be any racial stereotypes that have to do with Tiger Bait.

I'm not convicted on this. Just thinking out loud about where the line should possibly be. I can be convinced otherwise.

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Number one just works for historical figures in general. We don't need to nitpick their life to determine if they meet today's moral standards, we just need to decide whether what they are known for is still generally a good thing. Not sure why people were wanting to take down a Gandhi statute, but whatever it was, if it wasn't related to his actual legacy, it's not really relevant.

For Number 2, I'm not sure what the right approach is. ON the one hand, I think it's stupid to stop a cheer because of a completely unrelated issue from however many decades in the past; on the other hand, those images are stomach turning and once you see em, you can't unsee them. If people are generally aware of that in FLorida, then yea, probably drop it. If those were pretty obscure and very few people knew about them, the person that made an issue out of it is an ass.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...sity_Grays.jpg

Ole Miss is so 17ed considering their colors and name is from the "University Grays" Confederate Army unit. The are moving the statue but what about this stained glass window? Surprised it hasn't yet been broken. Big changes will be coming in the near future and soon "Ole times their will soon be forgotten".

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

This is the most important question:

To me, here is what I'm thinking.

1. Is a person famous or celebrated because he was involved in slavery/racism or the protection of slavery or is the person famous or celebrated for other things but just happened to own slaves, as was the custom at the time? This separates George Washington from Nathan Bedford Forest.

2. Is the origin of a slogan based on racial or slavery stereotypes or a somewhat direct symbol of the confederacy? This is why I'm OK with Gator bait being eradicated. However, Tiger Bait should be fine because Tigers didn't even exist in the Americas till zoos become common place. So there shouldn't be any racial stereotypes that have to do with Tiger Bait.

I'm not convicted on this. Just thinking out loud about where the line should possibly be. I can be convinced otherwise.

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I agree. Those seem to be reasonable places to draw the lines.

Likewise, if Carrol Baskin shows up at LSU games on the Jumbotron to lead the cheer, then LSU should have to stop that chant as well.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

Number one just works for historical figures in general. We don't need to nitpick their life to determine if they meet today's moral standards, we just need to decide whether what they are known for is still generally a good thing. Not sure why people were wanting to take down a Gandhi statute, but whatever it was, if it wasn't related to his actual legacy, it's not really relevant.

For Number 2, I'm not sure what the right approach is. ON the one hand, I think it's stupid to stop a cheer because of a completely unrelated issue from however many decades in the past; on the other hand, those images are stomach turning and once you see em, you can't unsee them. If people are generally aware of that in FLorida, then yea, probably drop it. If those were pretty obscure and very few people knew about them, the person that made an issue out of it is an ass.

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23 and Me could become important to find your lost victim hood...to know what monument or history you want cancelled

- If you are Persian, you were massacred and enslaved by Tamerlane and his Mongols
- If you are Greek, you were ethnically cleansed from Anatolia and some Genocide, lots of rape...plus the whole business with Persian that lead to Marathon, Thermopylae, and Artemisium. The fall of constantinople was basically one huge pogrom.
- If you are French, then Julius Cesar is your Andrew Jackson. He took over, wiped out the tribes and brought Latin Culture to France
- If you are Spanish, then the Syrians with Berber soldiers invaded you and took over for a long time, a long reconquest was necessary for the native iberians to take back their land
- If you are Polish, then you were gangrapped by Russians, Germans, and Hungarians, some times all at once...even after you saved the day at the Siege of Vienna
- If you are Russians, then your people were captured, sold, and used as slaves. Captured by Tartars, Sold in Crimea by Turks, and used by Arabs for bad things.
- If you are Irish, you are kind of like a Pole. But there was a time when Algerians would snag all the boys, girls, and women in coastal villages and sold a few million in Tunisia and Algiers. Then the potato famine, blame PM Travelyan.
- If you are Egyptian, then you were conquered by Arabs and had to adopt their culture and religion.
- If you are Navajo and Yaki, then the Aztecs used some of your people for vivisection in their temples.
- If you are Scottish, then you have the Brave Heart movie. You even had to endure Hadrians Wall. Cause the Romans and Britons thought the Pics were too violent.
- If you are English, then your pillagers were the Norweigans, lots of head bashing and forced labor.
- If you are Sicilian, then you were colonized by Greeks, Cartheginians, Romans, Spanish, Arabs, and French Normans
- If you are Dutch, then you have the massacre of Maastricht by the Spanish Tercios.
- If you are German, the Romans used to trade Dogs and Wine in exchange for German child slaves
- If you are Danish, the Romans used to sell your kids, put them in cages. It was pope that said that Danes look like "Angels", thus the Anglo in Anglo-Saxon

So the Romans suck...

- But, if you are Roman, then Carthaginians, Gauls, and Numancian allies invade and pillaged your country for a while. Punic pirates took many Roman slaves. But legend also has it that a Greek alliance invaded your ancestors in Troy and destroyed your homeland. All because some girl named Helen did not want to be married to an Old Spartan, she liked a young Trojan more.

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

23 and Me could become important to find your lost victim hood...to know what monument or history you want cancelled

- If you are Persian, you were massacred and enslaved by Tamerlane and his Mongols
- If you are Greek, you were ethnically cleansed from Anatolia and some Genocide, lots of rape...plus the whole business with Persian that lead to Marathon, Thermopylae, and Artemisium. The fall of constantinople was basically one huge pogrom.
- If you are French, then Julius Cesar is your Andrew Jackson. He took over, wiped out the tribes and brought Latin Culture to France
- If you are Spanish, then the Syrians with Berber soldiers invaded you and took over for a long time, a long reconquest was necessary for the native iberians to take back their land
- If you are Polish, then you were gangrapped by Russians, Germans, and Hungarians, some times all at once...even after you saved the day at the Siege of Vienna
- If you are Russians, then your people were captured, sold, and used as slaves. Captured by Tartars, Sold in Crimea by Turks, and used by Arabs for bad things.
- If you are Irish, you are kind of like a Pole. But there was a time when Algerians would snag all the boys, girls, and women in coastal villages and sold a few million in Tunisia and Algiers. Then the potato famine, blame PM Travelyan.
- If you are Egyptian, then you were conquered by Arabs and had to adopt their culture and religion.
- If you are Navajo and Yaki, then the Aztecs used some of your people for vivisection in their temples.
- If you are Scottish, then you have the Brave Heart movie. You even had to endure Hadrians Wall. Cause the Romans and Britons thought the Pics were too violent.
- If you are English, then your pillagers were the Norweigans, lots of head bashing and forced labor.
- If you are Sicilian, then you were colonized by Greeks, Cartheginians, Romans, Spanish, Arabs, and French Normans
- If you are Dutch, then you have the massacre of Maastricht by the Spanish Tercios.
- If you are German, the Romans used to trade Dogs and Wine in exchange for German child slaves
- If you are Danish, the Romans used to sell your kids, put them in cages. It was pope that said that Danes look like "Angels", thus the Anglo in Anglo-Saxon

So the Romans suck...

- But, if you are Roman, then Carthaginians, Gauls, and Numancian allies invade and pillaged your country for a while. Punic pirates took many Roman slaves. But legend also has it that a Greek alliance invaded your ancestors in Troy and destroyed your homeland. All because some girl named Helen did not want to be married to an Old Spartan, she liked a young Trojan more.

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ahem:confused:... why no mention of the white trash, weed growin', whiskey distillin', Bammer Redneck's oppression of the early 3rd Millennium???

Seems like you're cherrypickin', there, buddy!

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

This is the most important question:

To me, here is what I'm thinking.

1. Is a person famous or celebrated because he was involved in slavery/racism or the protection of slavery or is the person famous or celebrated for other things but just happened to own slaves, as was the custom at the time? This separates George Washington from Nathan Bedford Forest.

2. Is the origin of a slogan based on racial or slavery stereotypes or a somewhat direct symbol of the confederacy? This is why I'm OK with Gator bait being eradicated. However, Tiger Bait should be fine because Tigers didn't even exist in the Americas till zoos become common place. So there shouldn't be any racial stereotypes that have to do with Tiger Bait.

I'm not convicted on this. Just thinking out loud about where the line should possibly be. I can be convinced otherwise.

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I think that's reasonable. But to clarify, the gator bait chant does NOT have its origins based on anything to do with racism.

From interview yesterday with the creator of the chant, former player Lawrence Wright:

Lawrence Wright, who is credited with popularizing the cheer after chanting "If you ain't a Gator, ya Gator bait, baby" after a 1995 win, told The Gainesville Sun that he wants to speak with Fuchs about the decision. Wright planned to release merchandise with the phrase, according to the paper.

"I'm not going for it," said Wright, who was a member of Florida's first national title-winning football team. "I created something for us. It's a college football thing. It's not a racist thing, It's about us, the Gator Nation. And I'm black."

RiverCityDawg, I think that the origins are important, but that alone doesn't make it okay. If I start a chant "We are going to curb stomp you," it's still not okay even if I was unaware of the history of the phrase. The history is there regardless of the intentions of the creator.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

ahem:confused:... why no mention of the white trash, weed growin', whiskey distillin', Bammer Redneck's oppression of the early 3rd Millennium???

Seems like you're cherrypickin', there, buddy!

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Saban has victimized every coach in the SEC since joining the conference. Bammers have even built statues.

Tennessee is on Coach 3 or 4? From Fat Phil to a series of pretenders. I've lost count and don't care to even check.

Mississippi State is on Coach 4 Post-Saban (Croom, Dan, Deadhead, and now Pirate). Dan is only SEC-West guy to leave for a promotion. All others fired or retired. In the SEC overall, I can only recall Franklin at Vanderbilt being promoted.

Ole Miss is on Coach 4 or 5. Saban double tapped Houston Nutt at Ole Miss after seeing him die at Arkansas.

Auburm is on Coach 3

LSU is on Coach 2

Florida is on Coach 5 if you include the interim coaches

Will Muschamp deserves special mention as a real life zombie, fired at Florida but is the walking dead at USC.

Texas A&M is on Coach 3 since Saban and since snaking Francione from Tuscaloosa.

Hope everybody likes spandex and polyester because you can?t wear cotton shirts any more because it was historically harvested by slaves.

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

Saban has victimized every coach in the SEC since joining the conference. Bammers have even built statues.

Tennessee is on Coach 3 or 4? From Fat Phil to a series of pretenders. I've lost count and don't care to even check.

Mississippi State is on Coach 4 Post-Saban (Croom, Dan, Deadhead, and now Pirate). Dan is only SEC-West guy to leave for a promotion. All others fired or retired. In the SEC overall, I can only recall Franklin at Vanderbilt being promoted.

Ole Miss is on Coach 4 or 5. Saban double tapped Houston Nutt at Ole Miss after seeing him die at Arkansas.

Auburm is on Coach 3

LSU is on Coach 2

Florida is on Coach 5 if you include the interim coaches

Will Muschamp deserves special mention as a real life zombie, fired at Florida but is the walking dead at USC.

Texas A&M is on Coach 3 since Saban and since snaking Francione from Tuscaloosa.

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This^, people, is how "you internet".....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN1m734i8ec