I feel better about our weekend rotation

MacLeoud needs to be more efficient. But we have Landon Sims who can keep us in games.

Cerentola is a wild card. He can either be elite or another Evan Mitchell. If he can't figure it out, I think Fristoe takes his spot and he has shown that he can do the job. And then we have Brandon Smith who can eat up innings. If Cerentola can't figure it out- I wonder if we look at him at closer or in a relief role? He may do really well with it.

It sounds like Bednar will be back against Eastern Michigan if not sooner. I think he will be fine but will have to build his pitch count up, so I'm hoping he can come back Sunday.

I bet we take a big leap the second half of SEC play and end up with MacLeoud, Bednar, and Fristoe with Cerentola flaming out.

I would go ahead and move EC to Sunday this week. Even if Bednar can't go. Go ahead and get EC on his normal rest.

You got to really like Sims and smith as long weekend relievers out of the pen right now. If Bednar is who I think he is and price is 2020 price, you have to love how we are set up on the mound.

I'll say this about our hitting too - we have probably faced as good as pitching as anybody in the country through 7 games. We saw Texas best arm, tcu best arm, a good arm vs TTU, and Tulanes three starters were as good as a sec team.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

I would go ahead and move EC to Sunday this week. Even if Bednar can't go. Go ahead and get EC on his normal rest.

You got to really like Sims and smith as long weekend relievers out of the pen right now. If Bednar is who I think he is and price is 2020 price, you have to love how we are set up on the mound.

I'll say this about our hitting too - we have probably faced as good as pitching as anybody in the country through 7 games. We saw Texas best arm, tcu best arm, a good arm vs TTU, and Tulanes three starters were as good as a sec team.

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I agree about the hitting. And I think we will really pick it up this weekend and over the next couple of weeks.

Looking at stats I wonder if they are considering hitting Landon Jordan leadoff? He has the highest OBP on the team right now. The hit Tanner Allen second, maybe put Rowdey third and then Hancock fourth with Kam James and Logan Tanner behind him. Then go Hatcher, McGowan/Cumbest and Dubrule.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I agree about the hitting. And I think we will really pick it up this weekend and over the next couple of weeks.

Looking at stats I wonder if they are considering hitting Landon Jordan leadoff? He has the highest OBP on the team right now. The hit Tanner Allen second, maybe put Rowdey third and then Hancock fourth with Kam James and Logan Tanner behind him. Then go Hatcher, McGowan/Cumbest and Dubrule.

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I like that line up.

I understand why we have Sims in the role we do, but I keep thinking a Fri/Sat/Sun of Sims, Macleoud, Bednar could be lethal. None of our starters seem to go much more than 4 innings anyway. I get that the problem would be leaving Smith as the only real inning eater. Cerentola may could take Smith's current role (assuming Smith takes the Sims role), and may actually excel in it. I think being a starter just gets in his head. One thing is certain, his problems are mostly mental.

ETA: Not sure where everyone else should be, but I think we have to move Hancock to 4th in the lineup. Rowdy probably should be one of 2nd, 3rd, or 5th, but not 1st.

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Originally Posted by PMDawg

I understand why we have Sims in the role we do, but I keep thinking a Fri/Sat/Sun of Sims, Macleoud, Bednar could be lethal. None of our starters seem to go much more than 4 innings anyway. I get that the problem would be leaving Smith as the only real inning eater. Cerentola may could take Smith's current role (assuming Smith takes the Sims role), and may actually excel in it. I think being a starter just gets in his head. One thing is certain, his problems are mostly mental.

ETA: Not sure where everyone else should be, but I think we have to move Hancock to 4th in the lineup. Rowdy probably should be one of 2nd, 3rd, or 5th, but not 1st.

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I think right now you need to keep Sims in the pen. If we get quality starts from two of the three starters then it allows Sims to pitch in two games instead of just one. I think he eventually becomes a starter but right now I say keep him in that Girodo/Ross Mitchell role. Kind of like how the Indians used Andrew Miller in the 2016 playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I agree about the hitting. And I think we will really pick it up this weekend and over the next couple of weeks.

Looking at stats I wonder if they are considering hitting Landon Jordan leadoff?

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I doubt it. Landon Jordan is going to platoon at times. Don't want a platoon player in the leadoff spot. Dubrule makes the most sense right now.

1. Dubrule
2. Kam James
3. Tanner Allen
4. Logan Tanner
5. Luke Hancock
6. Rowdey
7. Hatcher
8. Cumbust/McGowen
9. Landon Jordan/Leggett

Nice Righty/Lefty mix.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Clark and Forsyth get some time this wknd.

A paradigm for MSU's pitching staff is that being a "starter" is not the same big deal as in years past when we were so thin at pitching. Think about Pilk only going 3-innings in 2017, that would kill the staff. We had to have decent starts.

Today, we can customize the pitching treatment to a highly-Lefty team or highly-Righty team or other feature, like a peculiar Umpire.

I think we just need 10 reliable, mentally masterful, horses for the SEC. It might really be best for Cerantola to be middle relief, for us and him. He can be a more dynamic Colby White. To me, Harding is probably the #3 in the long run, but that's not a disrespect to Cerantola. It just allows us to start a Crafty lefty and Switch to a Power Righty and then to something else. If Cerantola played for Vandy, they would use him like a Colby White, wreck people after the starter, throwing his best pitches, holding nothing back, but under control. Vandy has lots of Highly-Rated pitchers doing that role. In 2019, Louisville tossed two PG 10 rated relievers to stop us in Omaha after we KO'ed their starter.

(1) Macleoud - Start
(2) Bednar - Start
(3) Harding - Start
(4) Sims - Long
(5) B Smith - Long
(6) Fristoe - Start/Long
(7) Cerantola (Colby White Role) - Long/Short
(8) Price - Close
(9/10) Stinnett, Lovette, Rokose, Tullar, C Smith, Self, and a few others

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

MacLeoud needs to be more efficient. But we have Landon Sims who can keep us in games.

Cerentola is a wild card. He can either be elite or another Evan Mitchell. If he can't figure it out, I think Fristoe takes his spot and he has shown that he can do the job. And then we have Brandon Smith who can eat up innings. If Cerentola can't figure it out- I wonder if we look at him at closer or in a relief role? He may do really well with it.

It sounds like Bednar will be back against Eastern Michigan if not sooner. I think he will be fine but will have to build his pitch count up, so I'm hoping he can come back Sunday.

I bet we take a big leap the second half of SEC play and end up with MacLeoud, Bednar, and Fristoe with Cerentola flaming out.

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Tend to agree on Cerantola. I do think he could be a nasty closer. Just have to let this play out, he has only played one game.

A closer has to be able to throw strikes. He certainly hasn't shown the ability to do that.

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Originally Posted by Saltydog

A closer has to be able to throw strikes. He certainly hasn't shown the ability to do that.

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I agree.

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Originally Posted by Saltydog

A closer has to be able to throw strikes. He certainly hasn't shown the ability to do that.

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This. No way he can close. Have to throw strikes.

0% I'd make Cerantola closer. That's how you lose baseball games.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

0% I'd make Cerantola closer. That's how you lose baseball games.

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Yeah, that could very well be a recipe for disaster.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

0% I'd make Cerantola closer. That's how you lose baseball games.

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I'd give him 1 more start and if it doesn't work out move him to midweek. He's not a bullpen guy.

Price is not good enough to close

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Price is not good enough to close

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Even though he's had a good career, I tend to agree.

I'd give KC Hunt a shot.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

Even though he's had a good career, I tend to agree.

I'd give KC Hunt a shot.

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I think it probably should be Landon Sims, but he's too good in his role right now.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

Even though he's had a good career, I tend to agree.

I'd give KC Hunt a shot.

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No, I don't think he's ready for that. Closer by committee is my choice.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Price is not good enough to close

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I agree

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

0% I'd make Cerantola closer. That's how you lose baseball games.

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Probably, but if he can't get it together as a starter, he's good enough that you have to try him in different roles. If the reports about him in the fall aren't BS, it seems pretty clear it's just a mental hurdle. Presumably closer would be a worse position for him because he'd be even more tempted to overpitch knowing he wasn't going to get a lot of innings, but I don't think you can count on mental problems being logical. Hopefully he figures it out as a starter.

Sims is the fireman and the perfect guy for the closer role. BUT, we need one of the young guys that can can bring it to come thru and be totally reliable when we need strikeouts (Sims current role). Smith is fine as a long relief guy but he doesn’t get a lot of K’s so he is better off starting an inning without runners on.

Price’s problem is, he doesn’t have the velocity. A mistake with a slider over the plate and it is like hitting a softball b/c they know that is what is coming.

Bottom line, we need one of the hard throwing young guys to take the next step.

Jesus Todd.... multiple people beat me to it, but c?mon mannnn....

Cerantola can?t throw strikes in the first few, low pressure, innings. So let?s just throw him out there in the highest pressure situation where we need strikes, and 3 outs to win the game. Sound logic there.

I don?t like to call people out, but SOMETIMES, I wonder how much you really know about the game.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

Jesus Todd.... multiple people beat me to it, but c?mon mannnn....

Cerantola can?t throw strikes in the first few, low pressure, innings. So let?s just throw him out there in the highest pressure situation where we need strikes, and 3 outs to win the game. Sound logic there.

I don?t like to call people out, but SOMETIMES, I wonder how much you really know about the game.

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Do you know what Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman started out as? Starting pitchers. Relief pitching is a different animal than starting. Completely different. Some guys that suck as starting pitchers thrive in that role.

Now, Cerentola may or may not be able to close. I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying it's worth exploring. Give him a chance late in a game that we either have a big lead or we are way behind and see how he does. If he looks good- then gradually bring him along.

We are not speaking long term projections though, we are talking about this season. We have plenty of arms, no need to explore something when we all know what is on the other side of the ridge. He is a starter for us, plain and simple. If he cannot cut it as a weekend guy we will move him to midweek, if he cannot cut it as a midweek guy he will take the Evan Mitchell route, take the money and run.

He?s got an MLB starter arm, we all know this, as do the scouts. Nothing he does or does not do this year will change that fact. He is comparatively new to the game, and I am very confident he will figure it out at some point in his career, could be next week, could be 2 years from now in whatever organization takes him this summer. Either way this is his last year, he can continue to develop at school, or he can get a 7 figure signing bonus and develop in the minors where his only job is baseball.

He is a 3 pitch guy with ridiculous spin rate, once he develops his secondary stuff and learns to consistently locate his fastball IN GAMES, he will be hell on wheels as a starter. Lemo has said he has one of the best changeup he has ever seen and has high first round spin rate on his breaking ball. That aint a closer, thats a starter once he puts it all together. Mariana, he is a unicorn who found a once in a generation pitch, not a fair comparison.

With all this said, projections be damned, we are trying to win baseball games NOW. Right NOW, Eric has problems that lie beyond his physical capabilities, his problems are between his ears. You dont take a freakish arm with snakes in his head, who is struggling to handle the pressure, and throw him into the loneliest, and possibly highest pressure situation/position in sports, that is what this boils down to.

Closers are not necessarily the best pitchers or strongest throwers, especially not in college ball, arm talent is not the requirement, mental fortitude is. We will continue to give him a chance as starter with a short leash, until he either figures it out or shows he cannot do it. He is not moving to the pen, and most certainly not moving to the closer role. It literally makes zero sense. It would literally be the absolute worse thing you could do for him and the team. I get it in theory, he has strike out stuff, hard thrower, but he is not and never will be a closer for Mississippi State. End of story.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

We are not speaking long term projections though, we are talking about this season. We have plenty of arms, no need to explore something when we all know what is on the other side of the ridge. He is a starter for us, plain and simple. If he cannot cut it as a weekend guy we will move him to midweek, if he cannot cut it as a midweek guy he will take the Evan Mitchell route, take the money and run.

He?s got an MLB starter arm, we all know this, as do the scouts. Nothing he does or does not do this year will change that fact. He is comparatively new to the game, and I am very confident he will figure it out at some point in his career, could be next week, could be 2 years from now in whatever organization takes him this summer. Either way this is his last year, he can continue to develop at school, or he can get a 7 figure signing bonus and develop in the minors where his only job is baseball.

He is a 3 pitch guy with ridiculous spin rate, once he develops his secondary stuff and learns to consistently locate his fastball IN GAMES, he will be hell on wheels as a starter. Lemo has said he has one of the best changeup he has ever seen and has high first round spin rate on his breaking ball. That aint a closer, thats a starter once he puts it all together. Mariana, he is a unicorn who found a once in a generation pitch, not a fair comparison.

With all this said, projections be damned, we are trying to win baseball games NOW. Right NOW, Eric has problems that lie beyond his physical capabilities, his problems are between his ears. You dont take a freakish arm with snakes in his head, who is struggling to handle the pressure, and throw him into the loneliest, and possibly highest pressure situation/position in sports, that is what this boils down to.

Closers are not necessarily the best pitchers or strongest throwers, especially not in college ball, arm talent is not the requirement, mental fortitude is. We will continue to give him a chance as starter with a short leash, until he either figures it out or shows he cannot do it. He is not moving to the pen, and most certainly not moving to the closer role. It literally makes zero sense. It would literally be the absolute worse thing you could do for him and the team. I get it in theory, he has strike out stuff, hard thrower, but he is not and never will be a closer for Mississippi State. End of story.

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I hope Cerentola figures things out but no way do I think he is a closer, just my opinion. He will be given the chance to be in the Sec rotation, talented yes but mostly in practice so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Now, Cerentola may or may not be able to close. I'm not saying he WILL. I'm saying it's worth exploring. Give him a chance late in a game that we either have a big lead or we are way behind and see how he does. If he looks good- then gradually bring him along.

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Todd its all about pressure as a closer, its all about being mentally capable. If we put him in when we are way up or way down, that does not translate at all to closing. When you are way up or way down there is zero pressure. When you are up 1 in the bottom of the 9th at Alex Box with 10,000+ crazy coon asses screaming at you in a game 3 rubber match, that is pressure. Again, Eric?s main issue is between his ears. He needs time on the mound, and extended outings to grow confidence and find his groove. In bullpens, he hits his spots, and looks like a Friday night ace with ++ stuff and velo. Why doesnt he look like that in games? One word, PRESSURE. Some never can handle it, some figure it out, and I hope he does. I can tell you one thing though, the answer is not to put him under even more pressure where what he does directly decides if we win, or he blows it and we lose.

We have plenty of other guys that could potentially be a closer for us. I still think we are overreacting a bit on Spencer Price because of one 2-out bomb, you cant save them all, although, I do agree with most of the general concerns around him to an extent. Spencer believes no one can hit him, he wants the ball, he thrives on the pressure, and he has a short memory. You cannot put someone in as a closer until they show you that they can, 1) handle the pressure, and 2) throw freakin strikes. Right now Eric can do neither consistently, when/if he shows he can, he will be one of the best starting pitchers in college baseball, not a closer.

Sorry if I was harsh, didnt mean it. Just a terrible take, my man, it happens to all of us every now and then.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

Todd its all about pressure as a closer, its all about being mentally capable. If we put him in when we are way up or way down, that does not translate at all to closing. When you are way up or way down there is zero pressure. When you are up 1 in the bottom of the 9th at Alex Box with 10,000+ crazy coon asses screaming at you in a game 3 rubber match, that is pressure. Again, Eric?s main issue is between his ears. He needs time on the mound, and extended outings to grow confidence and find his groove. In bullpens, he hits his spots, and looks like a Friday night ace with ++ stuff and velo. Why doesnt he look like that in games? One word, PRESSURE. Some never can handle it, some figure it out, and I hope he does. I can tell you one thing though, the answer is not to put him under even more pressure where what he does directly decides if we win, or he blows it and we lose.

We have plenty of other guys that could potentially be a closer for us. I still think we are overreacting a bit on Spencer Price because of one 2-out bomb, you cant save them all, although, I do agree with most of the general concerns around him to an extent. Spencer believes no one can hit him, he wants the ball, he thrives on the pressure, and he has a short memory. You cannot put someone in as a closer until they show you that they can, 1) handle the pressure, and 2) throw freakin strikes. Right now Eric can do neither consistently, when/if he shows he can, he will be one of the best starting pitchers in college baseball, not a closer.

Sorry if I was harsh, didnt mean it. Just a terrible take, my man, it happens to all of us every now and then.

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The biggest difference between starting and closing is starters have to be able to go through the lineup three times. A closer only has to go through a lineup once. Totally different mentality from an approach standpoint. It's also a little different because most hitters are going to look to work the count meaning that they are typically going to take pitches. Closers know this- and that sometimes relaxes them too.

There is a fallacy that there is less pressure as a starter. It's just a different type of pressure. But it's not the SAME type of pressure as a closer. Some guys do better in relief than they would as a starter, and some guys can start and not relieve- usually because they like to be in a consistent routine, and then some like Randy Johnson can do both.

A lot of MLB closers start out just like Cerentola before they find their role. I'd even go so far as to say most start out as starting pitchers. And a lot of them have the exact same issues that Cerentola has as starting pitchers. So much so it's almost like a broken record. And it looks like you don't get my point about breaking him in slowly. You're acting like I'm saying annoint Cerentola the closer now. No- you bring them along slowly and that's how you know if he can do it or not without hurting the team. Mariano Rivera has to be a set-up man for a little while. And he was the best to ever do it. Dennis Eckersley started for years. I remember when Jason Isringhausen was one of the top starting pitching prospects for the Mets.

I mean, I'm glad we completely gave up on Daniel Brown after he failed as a starter in 2016.** He struggled as a starter for us and we moved him to the bullpen and he was quite effective and now has a pretty good shot of being a Big Leaguer. Now how could that ever happen with all that PRESSURE?

I'm just saying it's worth looking into because it might work. If it doesn't - we have plenty of other options. Heck - Preston Johnson and Stone Simmons look like really good options too.

But yeah- what do I know? I only have someone on speed dial on my phone that has saved MLB games for a living for nine years.**

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Originally Posted by basedog

I hope Cerentola figures things out but no way do I think he is a closer, just my opinion. He will be given the chance to be in the Sec rotation, talented yes but mostly in practice so far.

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Let's see how he does the next two weeks. He will start for that long at least. And he should since he has only had one start this year.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Let's see how he does the next two weeks. He will start for that long at least. And he should since he has only had one start this year.

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Hopefully he will settle down.

Something that I see as a trend for Lemonis is stability in the line up and player roles within the team. If you look at the stats of Starts, batting order position, etc. it appears that Lemo establishes his starters (both pitchers and hitters), his relief core, and his platoon positions at the start of the season and pretty much sticks to it (injuries not withstanding). If you are looking to see him juggle the lineup, move pitchers around from starter to closer, etc. you are going to be disappointed. He doesn't tinker every game like Cohen did.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

But yeah- what do I know? I only have someone on speed dial on my phone that has saved MLB games for a living for nine years.**

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Did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night too?

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Something that I see as a trend for Lemonis is stability in the line up and player roles within the team. If you look at the stats of Starts, batting order position, etc. it appears that Lemo establishes his starters (both pitchers and hitters), his relief core, and his platoon positions at the start of the season and pretty much sticks to it (injuries not withstanding). If you are looking to see him juggle the lineup, move pitchers around from starter to closer, etc. you are going to be disappointed. He doesn't tinker every game like Cohen did.

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I think that benefits us in the long run also. Cohen rarely let everyone get accustomed to the line up and get comfortable.

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Originally Posted by DeviousDawg

We are not speaking long term projections though, we are talking about this season. We have plenty of arms, no need to explore something when we all know what is on the other side of the ridge. He is a starter for us, plain and simple. If he cannot cut it as a weekend guy we will move him to midweek, if he cannot cut it as a midweek guy he will take the Evan Mitchell route, take the money and run.

He?s got an MLB starter arm, we all know this, as do the scouts. Nothing he does or does not do this year will change that fact. He is comparatively new to the game, and I am very confident he will figure it out at some point in his career, could be next week, could be 2 years from now in whatever organization takes him this summer. Either way this is his last year, he can continue to develop at school, or he can get a 7 figure signing bonus and develop in the minors where his only job is baseball.

He is a 3 pitch guy with ridiculous spin rate, once he develops his secondary stuff and learns to consistently locate his fastball IN GAMES, he will be hell on wheels as a starter. Lemo has said he has one of the best changeup he has ever seen and has high first round spin rate on his breaking ball. That aint a closer, thats a starter once he puts it all together. Mariana, he is a unicorn who found a once in a generation pitch, not a fair comparison.

With all this said, projections be damned, we are trying to win baseball games NOW. Right NOW, Eric has problems that lie beyond his physical capabilities, his problems are between his ears. You dont take a freakish arm with snakes in his head, who is struggling to handle the pressure, and throw him into the loneliest, and possibly highest pressure situation/position in sports, that is what this boils down to.

Closers are not necessarily the best pitchers or strongest throwers, especially not in college ball, arm talent is not the requirement, mental fortitude is. We will continue to give him a chance as starter with a short leash, until he either figures it out or shows he cannot do it. He is not moving to the pen, and most certainly not moving to the closer role. It literally makes zero sense. It would literally be the absolute worse thing you could do for him and the team. I get it in theory, he has strike out stuff, hard thrower, but he is not and never will be a closer for Mississippi State. End of story.

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All of this is why you don't give up on Cerantola without trying him in different roles. His mental problems are likely to get worse if he is a closer, but they're mental problems, they're not always predictable. And I would say you are also wrong about needing to win games now. The objective is to win games in June. You have to win enough games to get to June, but giving Cerantola a few chances to figure it out in different roles is not likely to be the difference between us playing in June or not, and if he figures it out, it will be a major difference for us in June. Have to at least try if he doesn't figure things out as a starter in the next few weeks.

As others have stated, closing is all about mentality. And Cerrantola doesn't have a very strong mental game IMO. Just watch how he pitches in tight situations compared to Sims, Fristoe, or Smith. I just don't ever get the feeling he wants the ball in those situations. To be a closer, you have to be an absolute DAWG. Heck, Spencer Price may not have the stuff anymore but he's got the cockiness that he still wants the ball in those situations. It's all about belief in your stuff and Cerrantola has never shown that he has great belief in the pitches he throws.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

All of this is why you don't give up on Cerantola without trying him in different roles. His mental problems are likely to get worse if he is a closer, but they're mental problems, they're not always predictable. And I would say you are also wrong about needing to win games now. The objective is to win games in June. You have to win enough games to get to June, but giving Cerantola a few chances to figure it out in different roles is not likely to be the difference between us playing in June or not, and if he figures it out, it will be a major difference for us in June. Have to at least try if he doesn't figure things out as a starter in the next few weeks.

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Cerantola is going to be a fine, fine middle inning guy for us. He pitched in Omaha and did a good job versus Vandy in Relief. He did have a good statistical game starting vs Oregon State, too. But Middle Relief is prolly his best role and it's an important one. No need for him to be a stressed starter when Firstoe and Harding can do it so well. Next starter is probably Stone Simmons who was Furman's Friday night guy on Opening Day as a True Freshman. Coach Polk said (paraphrased), He's very good pitching at 95-96, when he goes beyond that, the control is not the same.

This was Cerantola's first inning versus the Beavers....

Oregon State 1st - McDowell walked (3-1). McGarry struck out swinging (1-2). McDowell advanced to second on a wild pitch. McDowell advanced to third on a wild pitch. Ober walked (3-2). Claunch struck out swinging (0-2). Dukart struck out swinging (3-2). 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, 2 LOB.

Thats about as exiting and nervous as a No Runs, No Hits, and No Error inning can be.

I think there is such a thing as closer mentality. No question. But in EC case it's not his mentality, it's the fact he's never had any success. Yes a decent start here and there but hats it. He lacks confidence that he can do it. Why? Bc he never has!!! The coaches, the fans and the team all know he has command issues. He damn sure knows it and until he can have a couple of starts that don't have multiple innings of nuke he can't get any confidence. Run him out there a couple more times and hope it happens. If it does it's a bonus. I don't know anyone who thinks our year is based on him. With that said if he can harness it, lookout. He's a freak. We shall see.