Well, the kid probably shouldn't be expelled, but if he got his ass kicked I would chuckle.
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Well, the kid probably shouldn't be expelled, but if he got his ass kicked I would chuckle.
I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to argue. It's definitely true that these things did not always apply to all equally as they should have, and that's very bad.
The way to correct that is certainly not to do the same but just change the group that isn't treated equally.
I'm not saying this in relation to this moron at KSU or defending him. But if you want society to go in the crapper, limiting the freedom of speech is a great first step. You seem to not care about it, but you would in a heartbeat once it was gone and you suddenly had a viewpoint that wasn't allowed.
At public universities? They don’t really, certain classes may require appropriate attire like closed toe shoes for a chemical lab or you can’t violate decency laws, like nudity or only in underwear. But I’ve seen students show up in sleep wear.
As far as dress codes go as a free speech issue with schools below college level, the Supreme Court hasn’t really addressed that issue as completely unconstitutional as it concerns uniforms, dress codes or grooming requirements. Courts have ruled that schools utilizing a school uniform doesn’t violate civil rights of student when it is consistent and fair for all of the student body. You have a higher civil right to receive an education and a school dress code doesn’t infringe on that right. But that has nothing to really do with universities
I think the biggest thing you said there was “consistent and fair across the board”. We are getting into “1984” territory with the thought police. I don’t believe the kid should be expelled for this and I would hope the school doesn’t cave to the woke mob. I still believe that they have the right to expel him but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Are you saying that as a normative statement? Or a positive one? Because legally, they don't have the ability to punish him for protected speech. Primary and secondary schools do get a lot of leeway in the balancing act of maintaining order versus first amendment rights, but universities don't get that much. Certainly not to the point of allowing viewpoint discrimination.
And if you look at the type of people that tend to have an outsized influence on universities (if not dominate them), it doesn't take long to see the wisdom of that approach. You wouldn't just have people punished for outrageous speech. You'd have people punished for saying things like "all lives matter." And while people on the left have such a stranglehold on most of our government and educational institutions that many of them no longer think about the possibility that they will need protection from the mob in the future, before the last decade or so, it was generally people on the left needing free speech protection.
First Amendment does not protect behavior on campus that crosses the line into targeted harassment or threats, or that creates a pervasively hostile environment for vulnerable students. I believe this student’s “joke” will be put into that category by the school if they do decide to expel him. I also think it’s eye roll worthy but I believe it will be used to justify it.
First, it doesn't come close to falling in any of those exceptions.
Second, I'd be interested to see the caselaw providing an exception for pervasively hostile environment for vulnerable students. I suspect whatever is out there is nowhere near the universe of the situation at hand.
The case law is clear that targeted threats have to be just that, individualized targeted threats. No way that comment is targeted at any individual.
As for the hostile learning environment, that is covered under title 6 of the civil rights. The following link is a good analysis of how that functions in the confines of the first amendment. Brief version is the first amendment controls.
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/li...irstamend.html
It's not. SCOTUS has never addressed it I don't think. But courts that have, and the ocr which enforces title 6, has said that the harassment "must include something beyond the expression of words, views, symbols, or thoughts that some person finds offensive." The harassment must "deny or limit a students ability to participate in an educational program." Even then, if the conduct at issue is solely speech that is protected under the first amendment, it is not punishable. The ocr says "all actions taken by ocr must comport with first amendment principles."
I hope you guys are correct and I am wrong (won’t be the last time). I definitely don’t want this to become the norm and I am ready for some of the wokeness to get some real pushback.