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do we expect any freshmen pitchers to give us a little help on the mound? I dont really keep up with recruiting in any sport anymore- just like to wait to see them when they get here and make my own observations.
I see Grant and Dotson are highly rated. It would be nice if they could be used in midweeks and mop-up only this coming Spring and allow the normal growth for a freshman.
Reilly Byers has a good chance to help us out in the bullpen and he is underrated by a lot of our fans. Nolan Stevens is a dual position guy that may pitch and the staff will have to figure out what is best for him whether it's P/1B/OF. A lot of people like him as a pitcher. Most scouts like him as a first baseman. Dane Burns is another one that most don't talk about very much but he is another LHP. Those three and Grant and Dotson are the main ones that have the best chance to contribute as freshmen.
Keep an eye on Dotson. He clinched a State title with a 1 hit, 11K Complete Game as a Sophomore, and they have played for the past 2 state titles and lost (Jeff Blauser's kid hit a walk off in game 3 in '22).
PG ranks him highly - but I like kids who are exposed to playing for titles. Adds expectations. And this kid has won for a team that plays at a very high level.
Concerning Grant, I was constantly seeing stuff on Twitter, mostly from Perfect Game for the last couple of years and it looked like he was pretty highly thought of, making all star games and such.
I’m thinking his height and being a RHP kept him from being drafted. He has a good arm though. He is probably the typical freshman that we have been talking about that needs to be worked along slowly the first year and then take a bigger role from there.
I don't see Fr contributing a ton. Not in SEC play. We've got a couple Juco arms that will be getting a bunch of innings and a couple injured guys back. Grant has a ton of potential.
Can someone please Post all the pitchers that are on our active roster now going into next year. It just doesn't seem like we are any deeper than a year ago....
For what it's worth...In south Carolina last year, they signed 5 Freshman pitchers.
- 2 Highly rated guys pitched 50 innings, but almost exclusively in midweek
- 3 other guys did not pitch very much
From Sophomores:
- 2 Kids pitched quite a bit (+50 innings)
- 4 guys did not play much.
USC had a good pitching staff and results in 2023. They actually had the 5th best SEC-Only ERA. Ahead of on staff-ERA compared to LSU and Florida. 2nd best on Walks, almost half as much as MSU. 120 fewer runs allowed relative MSU, only got run-ruled 3 times.
USC used lots of arms, nobody with an crazy ERA or 1:1 BB to Innings Pitched. Also, their recruiting is really not better or worse than MSU's. Similar pedigree dogs, Parker had them playing better than Fox.
S Carolina recruits at our level? I figured we recruited better than them.
I was just talking to a friend today. Both of us pretty pessimistic about getting Holman. I told him that I bet we have as much as or more talent on our current pitching roster than the gamecocks had last season. Our guys were young last year but got a lot of experience. Devils advocate may say we shot their confidence last year, but let?s hope not.
Last 4 recruiting classes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbub50
2020- LSU#2, Candy- 3, Fla-5, SC- 6, UPig-9, Georgia-12, Auburn 14, State- 17
2021- Fla #1, Candy-3, LSU-4, Tenn-5, Bama-6, UPig-9, A&M-12, State-14, Aub-16, SC-26
2022- LSU#1, Mississippi-2, State-5, Aub-6, Tenn-9, UPig-10, Bama-11, Candy- 12, A&M-17, SC- 18
2023- UPig- #1, Candy-2, Fla-5, Mississippi-6, Bama-7, State-8, Aub-9, LSU- 12, Tenn- 14, A&M- 17, SC- 25
For the benefit of the unwashed (including myself), who is "Candy"? Please tell me your real name is not David Murray. He was always to king of writing in riddles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Vandy - I'm guessing it was an autocorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by schddog72
Coach has nicknames... this ain't a new oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Tripp McNeely
This may be a news flash to some of you but just because State has a great stadium does not mean that they are getting everything else right. A lot of work left to be done to play at the level that you think is automatic. Everybody in the SEC is now funneling resources into baseball in significant amounts.
Yep. Having all of this cool sparkly stuff doesn’t hurt but it doesn’t help if your coaching staff doesn’t know how to use any of it and improve a player’s performance. The kids that we have to get, especially out of the portal want coaches that will help their draft status. That is most important to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offshore Dawg
And we fell off the cliff and now we are playing catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offshore Dawg
First step in that catch up should have been to fire the driver that wrecked the bus the last 2 times he drove, but some here want to give lemonis a 3rd chance. Oh well. Hope we use the saved buyout money for something good because it isn't being used on baseball NILQuote:
Originally Posted by basedog
What do we expect from:
Stone Simmons, Starter?
Brooks Auger
Pico Kohn, is he back ready in Fall Ball?
Pico had surgery what- 5 months ago? Don’t see him throwing this Fall.
LSU won the Natty and are scrambling to add an SEC SP.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
And now they've got one in Hollman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
That's our point: we win a Natty, loose the studs that got us there, do nothing to replace them, finish 14th next year, do nothing to fix the team, finish 13th the next year
LSU wins the Natty, looses the studs that got them there, and immediately get studs from the Portal to replace them. What do you want to bet they're a top 6 team in the SEC next year and finish above us?
Johnsons success in the portal is only highlighting Lemos failures as a HC
Lose? What's the Difference? Lose is a verb that means "to fail to win, to misplace, or to free oneself from something or someone." Loose is an adjective that means "not tight."Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
Past tense of lose is lost. Loss is a noun, meaning "the fact or process of losing something or someone". Plural is losses (more than one loss). Looses is the 3rd person present of loose. Loosed is the past tense of loose (something was made loose in the past).
What if I told you I don't give a shit about grammar? I'm typing on a phone that autorrects and im not going to take the time to go back and fix stuff for grammar nazis. This is a sports board, not my work emailQuote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
The point of language is to communicate. If you refuse to address my overall point because of an extra "o" in a word, then is that a failure on my part to communicate my ideas, or is it a failure on your part to try to understand them?
Who was dumb enough to think we were going to pull a top notch recruit over LSU? It doesnt matter who our coach is- that's not going to happen but once a blue moon when LSU has a good coach. Manieri is gone- that LSU holiday is ovahhhhhh.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
aGAIN-
2022- injuries killed that team. You can ignore it if you want- but losing your #1 and #2 SP's is a killer. Sims was almost the same as a Skenes. Lemon got a pass for that
2023- too young on the mound- good from the standpoint of a Top 5 recruiting class. Bad from the standpoint he was unable to get some portal arms to take the pressure off the freshmen. PC fired for this.
2024- ?????? He better make it happen or he is gone. It's that simple
What makes Todd a baseball guru other than he predicts MSU to Omaha EVERY preseason?
22: "Injuries"? We lost 4 pitchers. Most teams lose 2-4 pitchers, we were not that out of the ordinary. Arky that year also lost their ace, for example. Can you win the league with bad injury luck? No. But should you finish 14th...Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
"Injuries" do not justify finishing dead last.
23: "young on the mound"? Who's fault is that?? It's year 5 of Lemo, the portal has existed for years now, and he saw our staff in '22. Auburn got 2 starters from the Portal. Arky got starters from the Portal. LSU got 2 starters. We got Gartman. You act like this is all on Fox as if the head coach isn't supposed to have a clue about his own roster talent or situation.
Regarding LSU: You keep saying how there's no way we could ever land a player they want. You keep saying Lemo should get a 3rd year after missing Hoover 2x. Honestly, it seems you don't think very highly of our program overall.
Let me ask you something:
Over say, the next 10 years, where will State Baseballs average conference finish be?
See I've got LSU, Vandy, and UF as clearly better programs. Throw in Arky too but there's really no fundamental reason we can't catch them. So that puts us 5th. I see no reason to think TN, SC, OM, Auburn, A&M, or any other SEC program should routinely finish ahead of us. Some years? Of course. Average over 10? Maybe 1-2 of these programs can beat us out.
So I've got us as the 4th-7th best SEC baseball program. Considering 8 SEC teams hosted this year, that means we should be squarely in hosting territory, and should be a national seed as often as we don't host. Missing Hoover 2x is pretty damn far from hosting, wouldn't you agree? JoMo was fired after making 2 bowl games because it was clear the program was going down... but missing Hoover back to back for the 1st time in decades isn't a sign for Lemo? Anyway,
What do you think is a reasonable "average" for our baseball program?
1. I don't know who told you I'm sleeping with your wife but it's not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyDog
2. I hope you're typing this at least 50 yards from an elementary school. I'd hate for you to get arrested while posting on Elitedawgs.
3. I keep asking you for a link where I said we would be in Omaha this year and you have continually failed to provide it.
Where we finish in the SEC matters very little. As long as we're doing well enough to be a National Seed or host we have a very good chance to make noise and win what really counts. And yes we have enough talent to do that. Again- you have ZERO clue how bad Foxhall was because you do not understand the game or what you are watching to have any sort of context. That's as respectful as I can put it. You talk about Joe Moorhead- what you're talking about would be more like firing Dan Mullen because of Peter Sirmon.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
Over the next ten years we will be fine regardless of what happens in 2024. If Lemonis doesn't win next year he will be gone. Remember I was one of the ones telling you he was coming back literally all of last year. You argued with me over it and were wrong. So because Lemonis will either have to win or leave in 2024 that has no bearing on our next 10 seasons because he will either turn it around or be gone and we'll likely hire someone that will turn it around.
Man you're high on yourself lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
No, last year I didn't "argue with you about whether Lemonis would be back". Obviously we would give him a mulligan after he won a NC, I never said otherwise.
Dan Mullen and Sirmon? If Mullen brought sirmonback for a 2nd season and the team finished 5-7 again Mullen 100% would have been fired but Mullen cut the cancer after 1 season. We also were decent on offense and overall discipline, whereas our baseball team was sub average on offense and awful on defense because Lemo can't coach fundamentals.
I remember and have linked you literally saying we should fire Lemo and bring in Polk as an interim. That was in March this year I think. But go on about how you're so consistent
I do agree with the last sentence- we are a good program and a ton of good coaches would take our job. That's why it's dumb to keep Lemo for a 6th season when he's epically failed in years 4 and 5.
I have the opinion that Selmon made a strictly business and financial decision in this light...MSU baseball is going to sell out on season tickets, while boxes, clubs and condos are also going to sell out; thus, the revenue in 2024 will be the same as prior years regardless of the losing in 2023. Only concessions will be at risk due to less people in seats if we lose again at same rate as 2023 but that amount is minor compared to the others. So keep Lemonis and lower his buyout substantially with close to the same or the same revenue as prior year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
That is strictly a business analysis: Income vs. expenses projection with no regard to the non-financial factors. Otherwise, Lemonis would have been out.
I truly believe he has to make Regional with a promising outlook to extend contract after 2024 and that outlook is tough with the likely roster departures after next year.
Need to enjoy what i expect to be an over-achieving football team that plays hard 100% of the time; with out key injuries could reach 8 wins. Then enjoy a good basketball season with both men's and women's competing for top 4 spots in SEC and to be clear NCAA tourney entrants!
You can link where I said that about Polk but I'm pretty sure I was likely talking about what our options would be if we did fire Lemonis in season- not that I said that's what I would want to do. I can probably find where you said Lemonis wouldn't be able to hire a decent pitching coach while we're going that route too. Other than the Arkansas weekend where I had heard that there was more support about firing Lemonis which then quickly faded- yeah I was pretty consistent with saying that Lemonis was staying.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
So you think our overall discipline is a problem on the baseball team? OK. Well the guy that was fighting everyone is at Georgia now. The team very clearly didn't quit on Lemonis despite having a lot of good reasons too. You can't just look at years four and five without taking into account years one to three. This isn't a Croom situation at all. Keep going on about our offense and our defense while our pitching was outlier bad. Having a winning season with a team ERA over 7 on the year and 9 in the SEC is actually pretty impressive. I mentioned Sirmon because the recruiting cycles in both sports are different. Not to mention had Dan won a National Championship with Sirmon as our DC in 2014 I guarantee you he would have gotten two years.
That's definitely part of it. A big part of it for sure. It doesn't really come down to just one thing but several things and what it comes down to is what is best for Mississippi State baseball? I guarantee you that if MSU thought firing Chris was best it would be done. See Cann. There is definitely a core group of MSU baseball fans that will show up no matter what. At the same time if MSU loses enough or becomes stagnant attendance will drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadawg63
The buyout is part of the financials and also what the realistic market for the next coach would be and how much we pay them would be? A huge buyout plus the negative perception in the coaching industry of firing a coach two years off of winning a National Championship would have probably caused us to end up with a mid major coach at best. The reality is our fans expect us to at least go after the best in the business and had we fired Chris I think that would have limited our pool severely which would have potentially caused us to have to look for another new coach in the next few years. Because of how we handled our coaches now we have the potential to realistically make an offer to a guy like a Tony Vitello- not saying that we would get him but we could make a serious offer. We want to beat LSU? Well- hire better people if the people in place aren't able to do it. Resources are not an issue for us. The program doesn't have to be built to increase fan support- that's in place too. Those two things will still be in place if Lemonis goes 24-30 next year too.
It's also about being wise with our money too. We could have afforded to buy out Lemonis if we just absolutely wanted too. But for us to have the coach we expect to have it would have cost us more than waiting a year because of Lemonis's buyout plus we would have had to overpay because we essentially proved that we're impatient. Coaches would have been like "why didn't they just hire a new pitching coach?"
Todd, I think it's more than "why didn't we fire the PC", our offense and defense was below standards. You said it wasn't a discipline problem and the team didn't quit. I saw several times kids not going all out. We had problems and it showed. There is no sugar coating the situation the last two years, bottom line, shouldn't have happened and I bet Lemonis knows this as he seemed to be more involved the last few weeks of the season. But looking at what is happening today, we should be better but I'm not sure how much better and what it will take to win the fans back to Lemonis side. It's gonna be an uphill battle for him and everyone knows this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
He got rid of Forsythe and Alford so I would say that's a start. Offense will be fine. We have Jordan and Hines. Add Montgomery and that's a very dangerous lineup. We also will have three seniors at least in the lineup- that usually means veteran hitters who typically have their best season because of their experience. Highfill will probably hit better than .229 or whatever it was he hit and Mershon will probably hit at least.300.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
I'm not too worried about either because neither one was outlier bad to the point where it was the primary issue. Also defensive stats are by far the most subjective stats out there making them pretty inaccurate across the board. It's all based on the official scorer.
If Lemonis wins he'll be fine. If he doesn't he'll be gone. It's pretty cut and dried.
I'm not disagreeing with your take for say next year, I'm talking about what happened the last few years. We just disagree with his future, he hasn't been involved enough and it showed. It's an uphill battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I agree he has been hands off. That works fine if you have great assistants- see Leach and Arnett.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
If you don't that can be a major problem. A lot of coaches that don't have pitching backgrounds tend to be hands off with their pitching coaches even at the MLB level.
Yes, Ron Polk is a good example but I think he was more engaged with players. I don't think Lemonis is engaged, I know he is laid back somewhat and I'm not sure this works in the college level. RP was and is loved by his players, his personality was geared to players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
As you know from being a coach not every player is going to love you. That said guys like Tanner Allen love Lemonis and he does have support from players that played for him. I'm just putting that out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog