Some reminders about Dan Mullen

I love Dan Mullen. If we ever need a new coach, he's absolutely my first call and we should give him whatever it takes to get him back. However, I think a lot of us are forgetting how his tenure actually went.

First off, he finished 69-46 as our coach. That includes 5-2 in bowls, so 64-44 in regular season games. Over 9 seasons, that averages out to 7.1-4.9. So when people attack Leach as a "7-5 coach" and wish for Mullen back, that doesn't make much sense.

Secondly, people saying "I want the early Mullen back, not the late Mullen back" are forgetting how much ... dissatisfaction Mullen had here in 2010 through 2013. Go back and check old threads from here and SPS and see.

• 2010 - It turned out to be a really good year, 9-4, ranked #15 in the final poll, a blowout win over Michigan. But people were pretty crushed that we lost a winnable game to Cam Newton in game 2 and then were very flat in Baton Rouge the next week. A lot of people wrote the season off already after that, although beating Georgia in game 4 calmed us down. Even after we beat Florida, we had very close wins over UAB and Kentucky that made people question him again.
• 2011 - We began the season ranked, and had almost everyone back. A lot of people predicted we'd win 8 or 9 games, and Coach34 himself said we'd win 10. Instead, we limped to 6-6, and even that was just because Ole Miss and Kentucky were awful. Huge disappointment of a season.
• 2012 - Started out 7-0, to finish 8-5. People were pretty brutal on Mullen at the end of the year, especially after losing the Egg Bowl.
• 2013 - Never really got much going, and were 5-6 headed to the Egg Bowl with a huge chunk of the Internet fanbase wanting him fired. Then Dak had his miracle comeback in the Egg Bowl and that died down a bit.

So just keep all this mind that what many of us are feeling about Leach (who may very well be a "7-5 coach" like Mullen) is the same thing many of us were feeling about Mullen a decade ago. And 10 years from now when we lose a road game we thought we would win and everyone gets nostalgic about the Leach days, bump this post.

Why does everyone keep talking about Dan? Not a shot. Just simple question. It's in every thread when we lose a game and there's always new discussions about him here. He ain't coming back. State would not hire him again and he wouldn't come back anyway.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Why does everyone keep talking about Dan? Not a shot. Just simple question. It's in every thread when we lose a game and there's always new discussions about him here. He ain't coming back. State would not hire him again and he wouldn't come back anyway.

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Because nowadays (more so than he was here) we recognize him as the pinnacle of what's possible here. I just think we need to remember that he was a 7.1-4.9 coach, and is Leach much worse than that, or even worse than that at all?

Give me Hugh Freeze

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

Give me Hugh Freeze

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Heck No!

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

Give me Hugh Freeze

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I could write up this same type of post about Freeze. Moral issues aside, he could probably be a "7-5 coach" for us like Mullen and Leach, but is that worth selling our soul over?

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I love Dan Mullen. If we ever need a new coach, he's absolutely my first call and we should give him whatever it takes to get him back. However, I think a lot of us are forgetting how his tenure actually went.

First off, he finished 69-46 as our coach. That includes 5-2 in bowls, so 64-44 in regular season games. Over 9 seasons, that averages out to 7.1-4.9. So when people attack Leach as a "7-5 coach" and wish for Mullen back, that doesn't make much sense.

Secondly, people saying "I want the early Mullen back, not the late Mullen back" are forgetting how much ... dissatisfaction Mullen had here in 2010 through 2013. Go back and check old threads from here and SPS and see.

• 2010 - It turned out to be a really good year, 9-4, ranked #15 in the final poll, a blowout win over Michigan. But people were pretty crushed that we lost a winnable game to Cam Newton in game 2 and then were very flat in Baton Rouge the next week. A lot of people wrote the season off already after that, although beating Georgia in game 4 calmed us down. Even after we beat Florida, we had very close wins over UAB and Kentucky that made people question him again.
• 2011 - We began the season ranked, and had almost everyone back. A lot of people predicted we'd win 8 or 9 games, and Coach34 himself said we'd win 10. Instead, we limped to 6-6, and even that was just because Ole Miss and Kentucky were awful. Huge disappointment of a season.
• 2012 - Started out 7-0, to finish 8-5. People were pretty brutal on Mullen at the end of the year, especially after losing the Egg Bowl.
• 2013 - Never really got much going, and were 5-6 headed to the Egg Bowl with a huge chunk of the Internet fanbase wanting him fired. Then Dak had his miracle comeback in the Egg Bowl and that died down a bit.

So just keep all this mind that what many of us are feeling about Leach (who may very well be a "7-5 coach" like Mullen) is the same thing many of us were feeling about Mullen a decade ago. And 10 years from now when we lose a road game we thought we would win and everyone gets nostalgic about the Leach days, bump this post.

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Maybe it is not the coach that is, "a," 7 - 5 but the program that is, "a," 7 - 5.

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Originally Posted by Percho

Maybe it is not the coach that is, "a," 7 - 5 but the program that is, "a," 7 - 5.

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Well, that sums it up about as well as any single sentence could.

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Originally Posted by Percho

Maybe it is not the coach that is, "a," 7 - 5 but the program that is, "a," 7 - 5.

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You're exactly right.

There is a poster on another board that claimed all college football success and rankings are directly tied to revenue. He documented and diagrammed program monetary wealth and on the field success......he was 100% correct. There is a really strong correlation.


There are outliers but the higher up the rankings you go the fewer they are. It also ties in with tradition and blue bloods so to speak.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeyPirate

There is a poster on another board that claimed all college football success and rankings are directly tied to revenue. He documented and diagrammed program monetary wealth and on the field success......he was 100% correct. There is a really strong correlation.


There are outliers but the higher up the rankings you go the fewer they are. It also ties in with tradition and blue bloods so to speak.

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We need to figure out how to double the population of Mississippi, with sports fans who are unaffiliated in college football fandom, preferably people with money and high school age kids who want to stay close to home.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I love Dan Mullen. If we ever need a new coach, he's absolutely my first call and we should give him whatever it takes to get him back. However, I think a lot of us are forgetting how his tenure actually went.

First off, he finished 69-46 as our coach. That includes 5-2 in bowls, so 64-44 in regular season games. Over 9 seasons, that averages out to 7.1-4.9. So when people attack Leach as a "7-5 coach" and wish for Mullen back, that doesn't make much sense.

Secondly, people saying "I want the early Mullen back, not the late Mullen back" are forgetting how much ... dissatisfaction Mullen had here in 2010 through 2013. Go back and check old threads from here and SPS and see.

• 2010 - It turned out to be a really good year, 9-4, ranked #15 in the final poll, a blowout win over Michigan. But people were pretty crushed that we lost a winnable game to Cam Newton in game 2 and then were very flat in Baton Rouge the next week. A lot of people wrote the season off already after that, although beating Georgia in game 4 calmed us down. Even after we beat Florida, we had very close wins over UAB and Kentucky that made people question him again.
• 2011 - We began the season ranked, and had almost everyone back. A lot of people predicted we'd win 8 or 9 games, and Coach34 himself said we'd win 10. Instead, we limped to 6-6, and even that was just because Ole Miss and Kentucky were awful. Huge disappointment of a season.
• 2012 - Started out 7-0, to finish 8-5. People were pretty brutal on Mullen at the end of the year, especially after losing the Egg Bowl.
• 2013 - Never really got much going, and were 5-6 headed to the Egg Bowl with a huge chunk of the Internet fanbase wanting him fired. Then Dak had his miracle comeback in the Egg Bowl and that died down a bit.

So just keep all this mind that what many of us are feeling about Leach (who may very well be a "7-5 coach" like Mullen) is the same thing many of us were feeling about Mullen a decade ago. And 10 years from now when we lose a road game we thought we would win and everyone gets nostalgic about the Leach days, bump this post.

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Well considering Leach had an overall losing record coming into this year he would have to win 10 games this year to avg 7-5 and that ain't happening so that blows that theory to start with.

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Originally Posted by Saltydog

Well considering Leach had an overall losing record coming into this year he would have to win 10 games this year to avg 7-5 and that ain't happening so that blows that theory to start with.

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Mullen didn't average 7.1 per regular season after just 3 years, he built it up later.

He had 19 regular season wins after 3 years. Leach is currently at 12, and probably won't make it to 19 this year, though he probably would if he had the 3 gimme non conference games canceled in 2020.

Point remains that if we give Leach 9 years, he'll win as much as Mullen did.

He beat the OOC teams and usually the SEC teams were supposed to beat for 4-0 OOC and 3 to 4 SEC wins against teams comparable to us. Had a horrible record against ranked teams and poor recruiter. Didn't win with FL recruits and loyal to Hev and Country Club almost to the end. Don't forget Holloway up the middle and too much QB draw and not playing the best players. Days of developmental programs are over unless you can play NIL/portal. He could have quit late season job search, stayed focused and have the first status of himself outside the stadium. Just no for 2.0. BTW, in today's PC world, could Megan still slobber all over the players as they existed the bus for the Bulldog walk? Asking for a friend.***

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Mullen didn't average 7.1 per regular season after just 3 years, he built it up later.

He had 19 regular season wins after 3 years. Leach is currently at 12, and probably won't make it to 19 this year, though he probably would if he had the 3 gimme non conference games canceled in 2020.

Point remains that if we give Leach 9 years, he'll win as much as Mullen did.

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I'm 67 and not sure I can give Leach 9 more years, but Hail State Always!

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Mullen didn't average 7.1 per regular season after just 3 years, he built it up later.

He had 19 regular season wins after 3 years. Leach is currently at 12, and probably won't make it to 19 this year, though he probably would if he had the 3 gimme non conference games canceled in 2020.

Point remains that if we give Leach 9 years, he'll win as much as Mullen did.

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Yep and Dan was actually blessed with a roster full of nfl players when he took over. 20 players on 2009-2010 we're on nfl rosters, so one might say Dan underachieved a little.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I love Dan Mullen. If we ever need a new coach, he's absolutely my first call and we should give him whatever it takes to get him back. However, I think a lot of us are forgetting how his tenure actually went.

First off, he finished 69-46 as our coach. That includes 5-2 in bowls, so 64-44 in regular season games. Over 9 seasons, that averages out to 7.1-4.9. So when people attack Leach as a "7-5 coach" and wish for Mullen back, that doesn't make much sense.

Secondly, people saying "I want the early Mullen back, not the late Mullen back" are forgetting how much ... dissatisfaction Mullen had here in 2010 through 2013. Go back and check old threads from here and SPS and see.

• 2010 - It turned out to be a really good year, 9-4, ranked #15 in the final poll, a blowout win over Michigan. But people were pretty crushed that we lost a winnable game to Cam Newton in game 2 and then were very flat in Baton Rouge the next week. A lot of people wrote the season off already after that, although beating Georgia in game 4 calmed us down. Even after we beat Florida, we had very close wins over UAB and Kentucky that made people question him again.
• 2011 - We began the season ranked, and had almost everyone back. A lot of people predicted we'd win 8 or 9 games, and Coach34 himself said we'd win 10. Instead, we limped to 6-6, and even that was just because Ole Miss and Kentucky were awful. Huge disappointment of a season.
• 2012 - Started out 7-0, to finish 8-5. People were pretty brutal on Mullen at the end of the year, especially after losing the Egg Bowl.
• 2013 - Never really got much going, and were 5-6 headed to the Egg Bowl with a huge chunk of the Internet fanbase wanting him fired. Then Dak had his miracle comeback in the Egg Bowl and that died down a bit.

So just keep all this mind that what many of us are feeling about Leach (who may very well be a "7-5 coach" like Mullen) is the same thing many of us were feeling about Mullen a decade ago. And 10 years from now when we lose a road game we thought we would win and everyone gets nostalgic about the Leach days, bump this post.

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Thread winner right here ... when I look backwards I see continuing improvement... it takes more than 3-4 years to climb the cellar stairs ... but if Mark Stoops can do it at Kentucky then I think Leach can do it here

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Yep and Dan was actually blessed with a roster full of nfl players when he took over. 20 players on 2009-2010 we're on nfl rosters, so one might say Dan underachieved a little.

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Dan was ahead of his time. He was a "quiet quitter" and we didn't know for most of his tenure.

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Dan was ahead of his time. He was a "quiet quitter" and we didn't know for most of his tenure.

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Man the dude could've done so much better here than he did. He left wins on the field just about the end of every year because of his job hunting and he bailed on the 2018 team that had a real chance to compete to play in Atlanta and beyond. Really don't like the guy.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Man the dude could've done so much better here than he did. He left wins on the field just about the end of every year because of his job hunting and he bailed on the 2018 team that had a real chance to compete to play in Atlanta and beyond. Really don't like the guy.

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Despite the wheels coming off the last couple of years Jackie will always be my favorite MSU coach, until someone else carries back to Atlanta. He is a Bulldog and made us believe we could win and we often did in the beginning and middle of his MSU years. Hail Jackie! Hail State!

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Despite the wheels coming off the last couple of years Jackie will always be my favorite MSU coach, until someone else carries back to Atlanta. He is a Bulldog and made us believe we could win and we often did in the beginning and middle of his MSU years. Hail Jackie! Hail State!

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Yeah Jackie and Peggy are all Dawg. Shame what the ncaa allowed om to do to him. Jackie was the one who showed us we could compete and win and he built the foundation and why we are a much better program over the last 30 years than the 80+ years before.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Yeah Jackie and Peggy are all Dawg. Shame what the ncaa allowed om to do to him. Jackie was the one who showed us we could compete and win and he built the foundation and why we are a much better program over the last 30 years than the 80+ years before.

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Yeah, remember the last couple of years with NCAA cloud over him? Could only get JC guys as HS players feared to commit long term. Staff was made up mainly of over the hill, ex-head coaches. Ever realize the pattern? We get pretty good, NCAA shows up, Bob Tyler, Jackie and ever Dan to a degree (see Will Redmond and a couple of other "infractions" that we give ourselves a hard labor plea deal). SEC and NCAA gotta keep us in our place over the years.

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Originally Posted by Percho

Maybe it is not the coach that is, "a," 7 - 5 but the program that is, "a," 7 - 5.

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Originally Posted by State82

Well, that sums it up about as well as any single sentence could.

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This right here. Our fanbase does one thing very consistently each year. Think we're better than we are and think other teams are much worse than they are. How folks have thought we'd win 10 with 2 auto losses in GA & Bama on our schedule still makes me scratch my head.

LSU has some talent ... more than we do. Last 4 years in recruiting starting in 2019 they're 5, 4, 3, 12 (12 was in 2022). With NIL and such ... not sure how many are left out of those classes but I imagine there's a decent amount left.

ETA: And why some folks always think that in 3 years for any new coach at MSU we should be 9-3 or 10-2 and playing in a NY 6 bowl also puzzles me. Of course I don't expect a new coach to inherit a legitimate 10-2 or 11-1 roster and go 8-4 either. Leach didn't inherit a roster like that.

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Yeah, remember the last couple of years with NCAA cloud over him? Could only get JC guys as HS players feared to commit long term. Staff was made up mainly of over the hill, ex-head coaches. Ever realize the pattern? We get pretty good, NCAA shows up, Bob Tyler, Jackie and ever Dan to a degree (see Will Redmond and a couple of other "infractions" that we give ourselves a hard labor plea deal). SEC and NCAA gotta keep us in our place over the years.

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Yep exactly.

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Originally Posted by Percho

Maybe it is not the coach that is, "a," 7 - 5 but the program that is, "a," 7 - 5.

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This. The one thing that keeps me sane is I realize we are 6-8 win team pretty much every year with a chance to win 9-10 every so often no matter who the coach is. My prediction was 7 wins and a chance at 8 with a bowl win
and last night didn't change my expectations. It doesn't make me a "poor ol State we should know our place person" it makes me a realist who understands the way college football is setup. We've been to a bowl 12 years in a row and if you think it's that easy only 4 other sec teams have done that over the same time. If you'd told me when I was a kid we'd go to a bowl 12 years in a row and more id called you crazy. I want to win a championships as bad as anyone but college football is setup for only about 4-5 teams to have a real shot. Expanding the playoffs will help some.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

This. The one thing that keeps me sane is I realize we are 6-8 win team pretty much every year with a chance to win 9-10 every so often no matter who the coach is. My prediction was 7 wins and a chance at 8 with a bowl win
and last night didn't change my expectations. It doesn't make me a "poor ol State we should know our place person" it makes me a realist who understands the way college football is setup. We've been to a bowl 12 years in a row and if you think it's that easy only 4 other sec teams have done that over the same time. If you'd told me when I was a kid we'd go to a bowl 12 years in a row and more id called you crazy. I want to win a championships as bad as anyone but college football is setup for only about 4-5 teams to have a real shot. Expanding the playoffs will help some.

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Good post CC.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

We need to figure out how to double the population of Mississippi, with sports fans who are unaffiliated in college football fandom, preferably people with money and high school age kids who want to stay close to home.

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Combining colleges would be the only way for a MS school to become a power house. Too much talent divided in a poor, small population state.

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

Combining colleges would be the only way for a MS school to become a power house. Too much talent divided in a poor, small population state.

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No doubt it's the only way any school in Mississippi could ever compete for a championship. To much splitting of talent

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

Combining colleges would be the only way for a MS school to become a power house. Too much talent divided in a poor, small population state.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

No doubt it's the only way any school in Mississippi could ever compete for a championship. To much splitting of talent

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Tru dat. Since that won't happen tho IMO the #1 thing we have to do is lock down the stud Dlinemen MS produces and/or find guys like Preston Smith and develop them. When we have our really good teams we have some studs on the Dline. And we don't have that this year.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

No doubt it's the only way any school in Mississippi could ever compete for a championship. To much splitting of talent

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It’s why LSU is LSU!

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Tru dat. Since that won't happen tho IMO the #1 thing we have to do is lock down the stud Dlinemen MS produces and/or find guys like Preston Smith and develop them. When we have our really good teams we have some studs on the Dline. And we don't have that this year.

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I know we try, and we get some every now and then. But Bama gets theirs, maybe LSU, and we fight with OM. NIL is about to kill us unless they hurry up and change the rules.

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

It’s why LSU is LSU!

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by Percho

Maybe it is not the coach that is, "a," 7 - 5 but the program that is, "a," 7 - 5.

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I'd say program wise that is us as well as many others in the SECW. However, Leach is not a 7-5 performing coach yet.

Really when you look at it, winning 5 games a year is only winning what 1 SEC game. 6-6 is only winning 2 games. It ain't really rocket science if you just use the talent right here in the state of Miss and leverage your strengths.

But we are not really doing that and we will see less than our potential until we do.

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

I know we try, and we get some every now and then. But Bama gets theirs, maybe LSU, and we fight with OM. NIL is about to kill us unless they hurry up and change the rules.

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Mullen had some strengths and weaknesses. When he wants to coach he can really coach, but he also takes games or parts of seasons off at times IMO. And of course he doesn't recruit well although he can make up for it with development of players. At FL he got too complacent and then slacked on development too.

But one of his strengths at MSU was he was able to get the top Dlinemen to come to State and they were better than even the couple we lost to Bama.

But I believe you're right about NIL ... that's most likely gonna severely hurt our ability to do that. But if I'm paying players at MSU ... my priority is Dline over all other positions.

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Originally Posted by Percho

Maybe it is not the coach that is, "a," 7 - 5 but the program that is, "a," 7 - 5.

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Bingo

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

This. The one thing that keeps me sane is I realize we are 6-8 win team pretty much every year with a chance to win 9-10 every so often no matter who the coach is. My prediction was 7 wins and a chance at 8 with a bowl win
and last night didn't change my expectations. It doesn't make me a "poor ol State we should know our place person" it makes me a realist who understands the way college football is setup. We've been to a bowl 12 years in a row and if you think it's that easy only 4 other sec teams have done that over the same time. If you'd told me when I was a kid we'd go to a bowl 12 years in a row and more id called you crazy. I want to win a championships as bad as anyone but college football is setup for only about 4-5 teams to have a real shot. Expanding the playoffs will help some.

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Yep.