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Yep. Best era of MSU baseball thus far.
Getting John Cohen as our coach was pivotal for our program. He really set us up for the past few seasons. The thing is those accomplishments happened with massive coaching turnover happening.
We have the resources and people in place to potentially be the best in the country every year.
What if Cohen had remained coach and not handed the AD job? Would we have the Natty, multiple Nattys or no Nattys?
What is none nattys, Alex?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked
As we've seen before, one bad season don't destroy a top program. We are a national program and we need to rebound from 2022 and show it.
I'd like to believe that, but I worry that even with our tradition it's a more difficult task these days with the parity and NIL money being thrown around. We HAVE to be willing to consistently invest more in baseball than programs like LSU, Arkansas, OM, or even Tennessee or we'll end watching them win more titles than us one day (LSU, of course, already has more).Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I’m willing to wager in 5 years we look back at this past year and see a huge anomaly.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Also, I bet it lights a fire under the remaining players as well as the coaching staff.
We've been spoiled in recent years.
Yeah how could it not? I'd say you are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
I would guess that if Cohen had remained coach we don't get Tanner Allen. No Tanner Allen, no Natty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked
In the long run, it might pay off. Lemonis now knows he has to approach things like Saban, ruthless and make the hard decisions for the better of the program. Not keep guys on for loyalty. Really hard to do but that's how the game is now with NIL and transfer rulesQuote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
No TA no NCQuote:
Originally Posted by State82
Or, maybe Cohen wins it in '18 or '19 with guys he brought in like Mangum, Westy, and Foscue because he wasn't distracted by poon.Quote:
Originally Posted by State82
Give props to BrunswickDawg for the top notch assessment.
Based on the fact that our NIL is still in it's infancy stages, what we've pulled out of the portal in part with NIL, knowing what the going rates for NIL are for the best baseball players, and the historical commitment our fans have shown our program since the 1960's if not even before that I feel good about where we stand. Even if we don't get Skenes we have a class that rivals LSU as it is- coming off of a losing season and without our NIL being at full potential which thanks to Charlie Winfield we are just now scratching the surface. We've historically invested more than Ole Miss and Tennessee and will continue to do so. Ole Miss couldn't even fill their stadium for the National Championship celebration and Tennessee's best crowd this year wouldn't have ranked in our top 30. We've been competing with LSU and Arkansas for awhile now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowDawg
For us it's the opposite of what you are thinking. We're just now scratching the surface of our potential. Before we couldn't sell that you could win a National Championship here- which is what was used against us a lot. That is no longer true. LSU with their dynasty utilized their TOPS advantage and steroids and essentially gamed the system. Since the NCAA changed some rules regarding bats circa 2001 they have basically the same number of championship and finals appearances that we do the past 20 years. When the SEC allows us to have more full scholarships- yes along with everyone else which is what I have advocated for awhile now- it's going to give MSU an advantage because things like facilities and fan support are going to matter more because as the system exists now it's about who can give the most scholarship money- and right now that's Vanderbilt. And along with that support- the NIL will be there. And who knows? Maybe at it's full potential we'll even be able to make some recruits like Jett Williams make a difficult decision about taking MLB money vs coming to school. Maybe not- but at the end of the day for us it's going to come down to our coaches identifying the best players and getting them to MSU rather than having to constantly fight NCAA legislation and recruiting against an unbalanced system for the first time since Ron Polk took over in 1976.
That's a great MSU "What if?" I think we would have had more titles. Really would depend on if he would have been able to poach Cann from LSU and made him the assistant head coach/coach in waiting. That would have been plausible as Cann had some issues with Manieri taking most of the credit for recruits Cann brought in. Which is part of the reason we got Cann in the first place. The biggest thing keeping Jake from a title was coaching instability on our part IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked
I don't know why, but I've had this feeling over the last week that we get 2 or 3 more NCs in the 20s... It's probably just bad gas though. I really do think last year was the perfect storm with our pitching injuries and woes.
One thing is for sure, after what Ole Miss just pulled off, we need another one in our trophy case quickly.
No need to let them think they are on our level. Although currently I guess they are.
MSU fans need to re-learn some patience. All that you can reasonably expect is to have a super regional caliber team most years. After that, all bets are off b/c of the endless number of variables that factor into college baseball. LSU can spend all of this money putting together an all star free agent team and then have horrible chemistry. Of course, they will just do it again next year but everyone gets the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
Look at olemiss' cinderella season. The last team in won it.
Don't think patience has much to do with it. I think it was more the shock of the 2022 season. Sure, we had injuries and other issues, but I doubt anyone thought we could fall from National Champ to last in the West and not even a Hoover post season. I don't expect the 2023 rebuild team to finish dead last again or we do have very serious problems. I do expect a hard nosed team that competes and wins State style. Hail State!Quote:
Originally Posted by AlSwearengen
This. It isn't that we didn't go to CWS or win it again. It was that we went from NC to the cellar and finished about as bad as possible and one of worst in recent MSU memory. Personally, I was fine with making or hosting a regional last year. Finishing in top 16 shouldn't have been too much to ask or at least make a regional somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldendawg
I don't think anyone is ever going to predict 6 pitchers go down in a season. I think if we knew ahead of time that Sims, Simmons, Auger, Stinnett, and Hunt would be out for most of the season then yeah I think a lot of people would have been less shocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldendawg
Big picture though.
1. We were in most games (yeah Tennessee game one was a blowout but that wasn't the norm) and had a ton of one-two run losses. We didn't really cave in completely until Auger and Stinnett went down. And up until that point we were in the hunt for a regional even with all of our deficiencies last year. Including beating Ole Miss in Oxford two games to one. I believe we had a 5-7 record against teams that were in Omaha. When reasonably healthy this team was fine.
2. Lemonis has addressed most of our needs in the portal already. And he took a very proactive stance in changing our recruiting philosophy dropping a few players who were recruited by the other staff or simply weren't performing. I don't think he would have done that last year. As usual- MSU is nice and gets completely burned for it. At least Lemonis wasn't nice for long.
3. Lemonis will either fix this or he won't. And if he won't Cohen will find someone else who will. We're really not even close to that point though. And based on how he responded in the portal we will probably be fine. In other words I'm not worried about our baseball program. Especially knowing what is coming in our recruiting classes in the future. Which I really believe will take us to another level.
Same for Will Bednar.Quote:
Originally Posted by State82
No Bednar, No Natty.
Which really puts a magnifying glass on this past season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Sure we are. You think if we go back to back season as worst team in the SEC and no postseason he's not in trouble?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
No. I think Cohen will sit down with him and tell him to let Foxhall and Gautreau go and that we're going to do whatever it takes to get the best assistants in the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
If we have that many pitching injuries again we seriously need to evaluate our program.
If Lemonis has another season like last year, he will be following Gautreau and Foxhall out the door. You cannot follow up a national championship with two missed tourneys in a row and keep your job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I absolutely believe this. The only way to prove 2022 was a fluke injury riddled season is for 2023 to be a Regional team as at last a 2 seed. No Regional play in 2023 should mean a new coach in 2024.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I would be really surprised. This year Lemonis can play the "fluke" card. If we have another year like this one Foxhall will obviously be the biggest culprit. But I think Jake could also be collateral damage in a situation like that too. The reality is firing a head coach two seasons removed from a National Championship is really bad optics. Especially since some of the issues can be traced back to program instability with recruits during the Cann/Gary Henderson era. Lemonis has also proven he can manage in Omaha. That has to be taken into account with any kind of major changes. Especially given the fact that Lemonis is a CEO coach which means he is heavily dependent on his assistants for his success.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
Another season like this will result in a major audit of the baseball program by Cohen as far as what's broken.
Now if Lemonis has new assistants and he fails yet again then the issue lies with him.