Printable View
I wont even respond to any of these, I am just curious. Here it is: Reading another thread on this board lately made me want to ask, why are some of you so negative and apathetic towards the program? Then, why are some of you so anti Leach? Just an honest question.
Also, for the ones that are pro Leach, why are you? And before some of yall say I am not negative I am just being honest, please dont.
I'll start. I've been trending negative for 4 years. I don't think JC was a good hire at AD; it's like we didn't even try to make a national search for the best applicant. We are a SEC athletic program but don't act like it. I love that he got us a NC, but it was going to happen eventually, maybe even if he stayed as coach. But, in the SEC football pays the bills and gets the out of state alums to give up the cash. Our game day experience has become stale, and we don't seem to give a shit about the egg bowl anymore. The behind the scenes people seem to be constantly in flux, and with what we seem to pay, I don't doubt it.
I like Leach's personality. He is very smart and a good representative of the University. You have to give Cohen credit for hiring a proven HC after JoMo failing to be able to head up a program. I didnt think a guy like Leach would come to Mississippi altho in retrospect the guy has coached in obscure places his whole career. He and I are kind of spirit animals in that respect. I've never wanted to coach around Jackson, Hattiesburg, or Desoto County.
I just cant enjoy the offense. It's soft and boring. It's the Airbone.
I’m pro leach because he is a proven winner everywhere he’s been and he has started poorly and gotten better everywhere he’s been. He showed improvement last year offensively at the same rate he has shown it everywhere else on offense and in year 3 he has also improved offensively and will here as well. I have never seen really otherwise successful, smart, educated people be as ignorant as most are about sports in general on message boards. It makes otherwise really smart people say really ignorant things. There are a bunch on State message boards that way, particularly about Leach. Some are because they hate his politics, some are because they have a distorted view of what State is as a program, and some are because they just aren’t very football intelligent. He is going to win 6-8 games a year here and every once in a while jump up and have a big 9-10 year regular season. That’s what he’s done everywhere. He won 7 last year with a bunch of really young offensive guys. You have to really have your head in the sand to think he’s not going to be pretty successful here relative to our past coaches.
When we initially hired him I thought it was a smart, out of the box hire. I knew about the success he had at Texas Tech so I thought bringing that style to the SEC could really shake some things up and confuse some teams. After 2 seasons of watching the offense my mind has changed, maybe it's the QB, maybe it's the system heck I don't know what it is but so far it doesn't look too promising in my opinion and I just dont see it working in the SEC. Leach as a person can be funny at times but he can also be kind of an odd character... I wonder how his players feel about him.
This is the season he needs to prove that this can work in the SEC but it's going to be tough with that schedule.
I think the offense will work if you have a strong passer that can escape pressure.
Because most posters here lack any logical comprehension of perspective. They do not include a coach coming in with a completely different offense under the cloak of all the covid restrictions. Leach?s first spring and summer preseason schedules were non existent. So implementing something completely different and having to truly learn it during the first real season of games. There were struggles but I guess only a handful of us can see things coming together, without the W/L numbers being the only thing we base opinions on.
Only a handful of us can also see that we were a healthy FG kicker and a competent officiating crew away from 10 wins last year. Only a few of us can see the progress during last season. How Will finally started stretching the field and going downfield the last half of 2021 and it opened up the offense. How a few catches against OM could have led to a win there or against LSU.
In summary, some people see what they want and very rarely ever see things for what they are. If the trend continues this year we should get to 8-10 wins.
If that's what you have to have, it won't "succeed". Guys that do all both well we won't get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
I agree. And if you look at our best teams over the last decade or more, we had QB's with mobility. I understand Leach loves the pocket passers but being able to extend plays with your legs is so important in today's gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
I just want to win. I want fans to expect more than 5-7 wins. It's time to be better. This year will determine my opinion of Leach.
Mine tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Think how well it did last year with a QB who is not either. 36 TDs, 4700+ yards. Passing records in the stellar football history of Mississippi State University, which still has an overall losing historical record in Football even with the success over the last 13 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
this is where I'm at as well ..... I was open minded and maybe a little excited when he was announced but I stepped back when I saw what I believed to be stubbornness. I thought he should adapt his offense to what we had and that didn't really happen. As we started playing better later in the year when Rogers took over I thought OK - maybe just watch and let him do things his way and give him the benefit of the doubt for now. The second season had me scratching my head on where I actually stood with Leach as it was kinda like a cardiogram graph but I saw enough progress to try and be patient ... so it seems like it boils down to this year and I know the schedule isn't an easy one but it's also not a brick wall either in my opinion - we shall see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
The only remaining coach of interest to me is Lemonis ... and I have NO PROBLEMS with him .... Or Cohen really
I completely agee. Good post. We should be in every game except for Ala and Georgia.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
I like Leach. I believe like others a more mobile qb in this offense will be lethal. what we have done offensively without a real all star wr is amazing. This has to be the year we win 9-10 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
There no excitement around the programs especially football. I know there was huge excitement over the baseball national championship but it's even waned some. I like Leach but I'm just not that excited about his teams. I'm not saying Cohen was a bad hire but he's been a boring hire. The Athletic department and BDC has definitely taken a back seat to the two previous AD administrations as far as generating excitement and fan interaction. Friend of mine who retired from the Athletic Department summed it up this way, ten to twenty years ago most of the employees were State grads and even the ones who weren't were invested in the school. Their job performance and interaction with fans and donors reflected that. Now most of the employees are non grads just using State as a stepping stone to get to a bigger university. They don't really care, it's just a job, a resume builder.
See, I'm the opposite on the AD. I hate nepotism and that's exactly how we got Cohen. Our best AD by miles was Byrne. He changed the culture n his short term here. He put more into marketing, he hit on a great football coach. Since then, it's been State guys and they suck IMO. Stricklin was better than Cohen but that traitor 17r used us too. Go hire the best damn people available. Stop being short-sighted and limiting s to the "good ole boy" system that held State back for years. You need some State folks, but not a full crew of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgbite
I like Leach and like the hire. Like Rouge, I think we have to ignore 2020 as part of measuring Leach's performance. Reasons for liking Leach are the way he runs the program - discipline, fairness, and conditioning all seem to be great. He seems to have a quality, stable staff - which I think is huge for a school like us. He has won at non-traditional places - given time to build. I think that is an important aspect for his success - he needs an entire team having been in his system since day 1 for it to really run the way it should. Most fan bases aren't patient enough for that. Yes, he won 9 in his third season at Texas Tech - but it was really seasons 4 and 5 at TT and WSU that the programs start to really look like the "AirRaid" that everyone thinks of.
Leach also isn't conventional - so I understand that rubbing the MSU fan base the wrong way, and that keeping people from buying in. I also think that believing that MSU is not susceptible to 6-7 win seasons is unrealistic. Smallest budget, smallest fanbase, in the toughest place to play college football means that those seasons are always a possibility. I think our goal should be that our 8-10 win seasons outnumber our 6-7 win seasons across a rolling 5 year period. I think that expecting more than that in today's game is unrealistic.
I don't think this dislike for Leach is not for him as an individual. I think it's his offense they don't like because they find it boring or not to their liking. He doesn't smash his politics in your face, so I don't think that many folks dislike him for it. Sure, its out there but he doesn't scream it at you. You should have the right to your opinions on politics and it not affect your job.
Some don't like it that his a thinking man rather than a fire filled one that gets the team fired up. Football is a passionate game and you have to play with some emotion and there is a place for that fire. Me? I think that can come from assistants like Arnett or even the leaders on the team. That does not have to come from the HC. There is plenty of evidence that can be done effectively.
I like Leach as a Head Coach. Why? The three yards in the cloud of dust will never work at Mississippi State and I think people wanting to go back to a Urban Meyer/Mullen style are wrong. We have been trying run first offenses my whole life and we simply cannot out recruit teams in the SEC. If you can't out recruit them, then a run first offense is toast. But Mullen had a ten win season. Yep and that year we had the best QB of our lifetime or maybe anytime.
If it's really about winning and I think it should be, then Leach is proven and it's apparent by now this offense can work in the SEC on a given Saturday. Consistency is the question now. I would like to see us run more vs weaker teams to help get more consistent in those games but I really don't care so long as we win those games. What I did notice looking back at Leach's career, his best teams did run the ball more effectively.
Can it be boring? Yes. I don't care. Ball control offenses do that but that does give us a real chance vs the quality of teams that are in the SEC. I want to win and right now I think Leach gives us the best chance to do it. If it doesn't work, then at least we will have been transitioned to a pass first style and will have the personnel for that style. That will make State more attractive to the progression of this offense to be more like what others are doing with the Air Raid.
I don't think there is anyone that could have helped State transition to a passing style better or quicker than what Leach has done. His teaching methods are mature and proven. Did we get him too late? (Month in Florida). I don't think so. Taking time for yourself can make you better, especially to a veteran coach like Leach.
A lot of the negativity around football right now is last season's disappointing finish causing a flare up of confirmation bias that started with uninformed or irrationally negative opinions all the way back when Leach was hired. Ie people are just as happy with being right in their minds as they are winning, which isn't groundbreaking news.
I'll focus just on the GameDay experience. If you're not moving forward, you're falling behind. And we're not moving forward, not nearly enough anyway. Ticketing, entrance, concessions, entertainment, environment are all cluster****s. The AD has been giving the finger to the fans for years, thus the negativity.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
I am all about voicing concerns and venting. But half of this board would like to see our programs fail just so they can boast their chest , just so they can say "I TOLD YOU SO." I enjoy this board but we have the most negative doomsday posters ever. They must live a miserable existence with the hatred towards coaching and JC. Criticism is a good thing and giving credit is also important when warranted. But the hatred is just wrong. there have been many coaches I dont like, but still gonna pull for MSU and not going to lose sleep over it hating a coach. JMO
We are coming out of a pandemic and everyone's game day experience has mostly sucked. Hopefully, things change and winning changes things faster than any game day plan by an AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
I wasn't aware .... we have always been in control or "made" our own gameday experience at our tailgate and it's worked out pretty good ...Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
1) tickets - I usually have in advance
2) entrance - I don't see a big problem here that most stadiums don't have as well
3) concessions - those were at the tailgate ... I only need water or my private flask
4) entertainment - we usually watch other games on tv or radio
5) environment - I don't understand the issue here - I love just being there with the other fans
I must be really easy to satisfy
Almost all of those things are a cluster at most college and some pro venues. Our entrance to DWS is a breeze compared to Athens, Gainesville, and the Worlds Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party in Jacksonville. Concessions in Athens are almost non-existent because you wait in line an entire quarter to get food, in what amounts to a space 1/4 of the size of our concourse area, in a stadium that smelled of piss BEFORE they started serving beer because the bathrooms haven't worked in 2 decades. Every football stadium I've been in for the past 3 decades has played music obnoxiously loud, has ridiculous commercials and contests, and really doesn't let you focus on the game or be able to have a conversation with the people around you. And if you think getting out of our parking is bad - it's bad everywhere. In fact, I think we have closer parking then most venues I've been to - except Jacksonville - and getting out of there is so bad, you need to tailgate again after the game. Not to mention how terrible most of the rent-a-staff is at all these venues are now. Gone are the days where the University or venue hired staff, they showed up, they knew the venue, and you knew their names because they were there every game. Nope, its all daily rent-a-staff that is clueless.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Rep!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylesandi338
Leach may very well win 6-7 a year and jump up now and then. He better! Because the "3rd yard and a cloud of dust" has averaged 6-7 wins for 20 of the last 30 years. (I just want to point out what a lie "we ain't never won running" is) And a good portion of those losing 10 years are on a guy trying to install an nfl offense.
As to why there isn't more excitement..... Leach is boring. He hasn't breathed any new life into the program. He is a dressed down Howland to me. However Leach doesn't recruit as well as Howland.
With that said, get pissed. Don't care. I'll be there. So my frustration lies in that I am there and I want to win or he'll play close. I can tell ya 91 92,94, 96-2000, 15 and 17 were a much more entertaining game than 2021.
Leach wasn't my first choice, but he definitely is a big name.
My biggest concern when we hired him is that smart DC's have figured out his offense. I also was concerned that he was hard headed and wouldn't adapt his offense as other teams have done that use a bunch of air raid concepts.
I just wish he would incorporate more read option run game into our offense. Good DC's won't play man against us except to throw the occasional curve ball. We struggle to score in the red zone and we struggle in 3rd and 2 or less. Those are frustrating parts of the Leach offense. I'm not sure that is being critical or simply observant.
Now, I don't get the criticism of Will at all. The kid is running the offense exactly how Leach wants it run. Complaining about his play is like being pissed at a chef for how your steak tastes when you ask for it well done. Can he do some things better? Sure, but he is not the problem by any stretch of the imagination; If you can't give Will a competent run game, he is going to have good and bad games. That is just how it is with this offense.
Bottom line is that Leach is 11-13 at MSU. He is 7-11 in the SEC and 0-2 against the confederates with a schedule where we replace Vandy with Georgia. Also, for all the talk about how we would have won two more games with a kicker, no one talks about how we lose to La Tech if they had a kicker.
I'm not anti-Leach, I'm pro-MSU. I'm not going to look past a coach's faults because I like his twitter account or his interviews (which are great). If he goes 7-5 this year with an egg bowl loss, I'm not sure what another year does.
I agree with you 100% on the AD hire. Cohen was a lazy hire. Byrne and Strickland were both better at building the brand. I'm more referring to the employees in the BDC and AD that interact with us peons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
I'm pleased with the progress from year 1 to year 2, but I want to see another jump this year. I'm convinced State is ALWAYS going to recruit in the bottom half of our league, so trying to do the same thing as everyone else with less talent and thinking we can consistently be competitive that way is utterly stupid. For that reason I like that we are trying something completely different. I think we have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
I think a lot of our fans haven't accepted that we are always going to have less talent and aren't ever going to be the first or second choice for great head coaches. Leach has proven he can consistently win at tough places with less talent, so I'm hopefully he can do it here too. I think we need to see another step forward to make fans see we're on the right track.
I went to 10 of our 12 games last year. I will say that Auburn was the absolute worst game day experience I have ever had with concessions. It was beyond ridiculous. Texas A&M should be the blueprint for all to follow (they have a shit ton of money so I guess that is part of it being so well run). Memphis was actually better than I expected. Arkansas was not bad either. I don't totally buy that the pandemic is a legit excuse for bad game day experience, but I also have never experienced the problems that some say they have at our home games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rock
Using Leach's overall record as some sort of measuring stick as if that record should be compared to what is normally considered acceptable is pretty disingenuous. A 10 game All SEC schedule where we had a brand new coach without a spring to install an offense that went from 3 yards and a cloud of dust to throwing it 60 times a game is just not normal circumstances. Not to mention the amount of players that we were playing with due to covid and having to kick off cancers that were babied under Moorhead. Yes, OM had a similar situation. They also had been recruiting to an air raid type system on offense for most of the decade prior to Kiffin arriving and they also won 1 more whopping game than we did and went to the Outback bowl in year 1. A team that was 1 game below .500 in the regular season made what is normally reserved for an 8/9 win team. That sliding scale should be applied to us as well when talking about records.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Haha- you guys are killing me with this "3 yards and a cloud of dust" BS. It's not like we were running the T and only had 3 passing plays until Leach got here.
In a typical practice pre-Leach our QB's probably threw at least 300 balls per day combined. That's alot of passes to catch for receivers. Then add machine catching drills and coaches throwing balls in others drills- worked on passing and catching quite a bit.
We throw and catch more under Leach I'm sure- but the biggest difference is in how the passing game is taught
In the same manner, don't act like we were some light it up thru the air modern offense either. You can make the argument that Mullen and Moorhead both ran the modern equivalent of the wishbone while at State - offenses that are run heavy and rely on a running QB to be effective. Hell, they ran so much their QB's our now #1 and #4 in rushing yards in school history (not to mention having the #1 SEC rushing QB in history)Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
We were 13th out of 14 sec teams in passing attempts in 2019. The only team with fewer literally played a wide receiver at quarterback for half the year. We were 1st in 2020 in passing attempts. We recruited players that broke the sec rushing record prior to Leach’s arrival. We switched to throwing the ball more than anyone in our league after recruiting those type athletes for a really long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Preach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Prescott is 2nd and Fitz is 3rd in career completionsQuote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
Prescott is 1st and Fitz is 4th career passing yards at State- Fitz even had a 400 yard game passing
Prescott is 1st and Fitz is 2nd career passing TD's
So no- they didnt run the modern wishbone. They ran spread offenses with a mobile QB
What part of not winning with a run first offense is a lie? How many SEC titles in your lifetime have you witnessed? I have never seen one and I was born in 1963. You may not like this style or it's boring but Mississippi State had way more boring offenses in the past to me. I remember so many 3 and outs for years that went 1st down run, 2nd down run and being 3rd & 8 with a an incompletion that I am sick of it. Will Leach ever get us a title? I don't know but at least it's trying something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen
I did not want to hire Leach, so I guess I initially was anti Leach but, now that he's the Head Coach at MSU, I am very pro Leach. I want to win and I don't care who the coach is as long as we are winning. If Leach does not become a winner here, then I will be very anti Leach.
I?ll add to my previous post. In yr 1 with no spring or summer prep, we looked as would be expected with a completely new offense and barely any personnel to run it. Not sure why this is so hard to input into one?s calculation of reality.
In year 2, we had 1.5 years of experience with it and a few more personnel to run it efficiently. And for the most part when it clicked we could go down the field. Only 2-3 teams really even got close to shutting us down. The drops and missed FGs were really the things shutting us down last year. Catch a few more against lsu and OM and we win both. They didn?t stop us. We stopped us by lack of experience and reps. Keep a healthy kicker and we beat Ark and at least one more.
Nothing other teams did outside of Bama shut us down. We shot ourselves in the foot in really all but one loss. If some can?t see this, I cannot help them. I rest my case. See and believe what you wish. I choose reality.
Eta. Last year really had 11 wins within the grasp. We didn’t execute. It wasn’t the opponents except Bama.