A reminder to all the coaches on here.

I have a different take than the majority on here. I'm fine with what the coaches did yesterday. I said it before the homerun. That loss is in no way on the coaches. Players have to make plays. The McGowan /Tanner exchange was poor. Not hitting for 7 innings was poor. Cumbest swinging at 3 balls with the bases loaded was poor. Pitchers not throwing strikes is poor.

I can't believe some of you haven't figured out what Lemonis is doing in these situations. He is bringing in players to make plays in pressure situations. Our bullpen is thin and everyone here can agree on that. If we don't have bullpen guys step up in pressure situations, we could go undefeated and it won't matter one bit in the postseason when you need day 3 and 4 pitchers more than ever. How many times have we seen pitchers who got shelled at times in the regular season all of a sudden become shut down in the postseason. Cole Gordon, Will Bednar, and our current Saturday starter are examples. Lemonis has to expose these kids to pressure situations to gain confidence, to mature, and to not fear failure. The first step to not failing is to not fear failure.

Remember our coaching staff won a natty with a team that was average at best many times during the regular season. They know what they are doing. The Long Game. This team has some pieces. But guys have to mature in pressure situations before we know what this team is capable of.

Yeah I'm in agreement. Right now is the time to see who has what it takes in what situations.

The problem I see right now is our margin is a lot thinner because we simply don't have the depth of talent I think we need to be a contender at this time. But Lemonis is going to let his players play and he's not going to give guys just one opportunity to get the job done if they fail. He's going to give them multiple chances before SEC play.

Do games right now matter? Sure. But if you go 18-12 in conference they matter a heck of a lot less. And you at least get to give guys chances to see who can do what and who you can trust.

We've got a lot of guys that can play and a lot of young guys. Let coach do his thing right now and we will see how it pans out in conference play. He's gonna bet on his players and give them chances right now.

I think and have said it's basically a "rebuild year". We lost 4 very good players from last year's team; I didn't see us replacing TA and IF Sims is done, he can't be replaced.

Yesterday was exactly what RP coined "that's baseball", I think we will have a roller coaster year.

Should be a very intense game today, I see Tulane with momentum after yesterday game, but I hope Cade pitches lightsout and we bring the bats back to the park today!

I agree with seeing who can provide strikes during pressure, but why couldn't it be done today after we clinched the series? It was 3 more outs and Simmons could have gotten those. Pitch Stinnett today if you need to see if he's got it mentally....

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Originally Posted by Activated Alpha

I agree with seeing who can provide strikes during pressure, but why couldn't it be done today after we clinched the series? It was 3 more outs and Simmons could have gotten those. Pitch Stinnett today if you need to see if he's got it mentally....

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Good point. But let's hope we bounce back today and move forward, no doubt a few spots for players is coming together, like in who can and can't.

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Originally Posted by Activated Alpha

I agree with seeing who can provide strikes during pressure, but why couldn't it be done today after we clinched the series? It was 3 more outs and Simmons could have gotten those. Pitch Stinnett today if you need to see if he's got it mentally....

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If it was after we clinch, didn't we just release some pressure? Therefore it's not an accurate measurement? Plus we might go out and win 20-2 today.

Remember, the coaches have watched these guys every day for years. Not just in games but in practice, scrimmages, etc. Every single day. You select guys for situations based on all that data you collect and you roll with them as long as you can. You don't let one or two letdowns undo months of work until you absolutely have to start making decisions, which for us is typically at the start of conference play.

Lemonis and Foxhall wanted Stinnett yesterday afternoon. That was decided before the game that if it's close he's gonna close it. Because that's the situation they need to evaluate him in and have data to say we think he can get the job done. Now they start adjusting those expectations as we get closer to go time.

The coaches let Tulane off the hook and sent the message that the ball game was over. But you are correct, MSU had lots of chances. Before the K in the 9th, Cumbest hit into a DP in the 1st inning with the bases loaded. MSU could have scored 20 again, but 10 is a good number, enough to win with SEC weekend pitching vs a Mid Major.

(1) Walker all the way to grand slam faces 4 batters
(2) Simmons gets a clean inning, then a hook?
(3) Auger gets the same treatment, scoreless inning, gets the hook

I get that Walker and Stinnett were Cy Young and Dennis Eckersley on Grambling but we need to save those talents for Jackson State and Mississippi Valley, not mail in a weekend game.

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Originally Posted by Activated Alpha

I agree with seeing who can provide strikes during pressure, but why couldn't it be done today after we clinched the series? It was 3 more outs and Simmons could have gotten those. Pitch Stinnett today if you need to see if he's got it mentally....

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He was probably trying to save stone for using today too. But any situation with the series already won is not the same pressure.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

If it was after we clinch, didn't we just release some pressure? Therefore it's not an accurate measurement? Plus we might go out and win 20-2 today.

Remember, the coaches have watched these guys every day for years. Not just in games but in practice, scrimmages, etc. Every single day. You select guys for situations based on all that data you collect and you roll with them as long as you can. You don't let one or two letdowns undo months of work until you absolutely have to start making decisions, which for us is typically at the start of conference play.

Lemonis and Foxhall wanted Stinnett yesterday afternoon. That was decided before the game that if it's close he's gonna close it. Because that's the situation they need to evaluate him in and have data to say we think he can get the job done. Now they start adjusting those expectations as we get closer to go time.

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This is how I feel as well - great explanation

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

The coaches let Tulane off the hook and sent the message that the ball game was over. But you are correct, MSU had lots of chances. Before the K in the 9th, Cumbest hit into a DP in the 1st inning with the bases loaded. MSU could have scored 20 again, but 10 is a good number, enough to win with SEC weekend pitching vs a Mid Major.

(1) Walker all the way to grand slam faces 4 batters
(2) Simmons gets a clean inning, then a hook?
(3) Auger gets the same treatment, scoreless inning, gets the hook

I get that Walker and Stinnett were Cy Young and Dennis Eckersley on Grambling but we need to save those talents for Jackson State and Mississippi Valley, not mail in a weekend game.

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The coaches didn't let Tulane off the hook. The players did that

How much more does he need to see when it's a senior with an ERA north of 8? I've got an idea, let's save Forsythe and pinch him in a pressure situation late in thr game while we are trailing. That would be the offensive equivalent of our pitching moves yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

I have a different take than the majority on here. I'm fine with what the coaches did yesterday. I said it before the homerun. That loss is in no way on the coaches. Players have to make plays. The McGowan /Tanner exchange was poor. Not hitting for 7 innings was poor. Cumbest swinging at 3 balls with the bases loaded was poor. Pitchers not throwing strikes is poor.

I can't believe some of you haven't figured out what Lemonis is doing in these situations. He is bringing in players to make plays in pressure situations. Our bullpen is thin and everyone here can agree on that. If we don't have bullpen guys step up in pressure situations, we could go undefeated and it won't matter one bit in the postseason when you need day 3 and 4 pitchers more than ever. How many times have we seen pitchers who got shelled at times in the regular season all of a sudden become shut down in the postseason. Cole Gordon, Will Bednar, and our current Saturday starter are examples. Lemonis has to expose these kids to pressure situations to gain confidence, to mature, and to not fear failure. The first step to not failing is to not fear failure.

Remember our coaching staff won a natty with a team that was average at best many times during the regular season. They know what they are doing. The Long Game. This team has some pieces. But guys have to mature in pressure situations before we know what this team is capable of.

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That's all fine and good but most likely we will be trying to play our way to Omaha in someone else's park come postseason. If we had gotten off to a better start then I could better live with trying folks out in situations even when they have not shown themselves to be reliable so far. We already have too many bad OOC losses not to have our most dependable guy on the mound in a tight game with the lead.

I'm cool with calling this year a rebuild year, but I'll be interested to see what we'll call next year.

I disagree completely with the OP btw. We have 5 OOC losses. Stinnett has shown time after time he can't handle tough situations. It's on the coaches for taking Stone Simmons out. Just because they won a national championship last year doesn't mean they're exempt from making mistakes. They're still elite coaches. No one is saying they don't know what they're doing. But even Lemonis said it was probably mistake. He doesn't need people making excuses for him.

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Originally Posted by Mjoelner34

How much more does he need to see when it's a senior with an ERA north of 8? I've got an idea, let's save Forsythe and pinch him in a pressure situation late in thr game while we are trailing. That would be the offensive equivalent of our pitching moves yesterday.

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That's what you don't get. It's not what he needs to see. It's he's trying to give these guys a chance to grow up and mature. You can't just say well this is who is good and we're gonna roll with them when you don't have enough people stepping up.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

That's all fine and good but most likely we will be trying to play our way to Omaha in someone else's park come postseason. If we had gotten off to a better start then I could better live with trying folks out in situations even when they have not shown themselves to be reliable so far. We already have too many bad OOC losses not to have our most dependable guy on the mound in a tight game with the lead.

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You can't have your cake and eat it too though when we don't have enough people stepping up early. You have to let them Pitch in tough situation's.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

I'm cool with calling this year a rebuild year, but I'll be interested to see what we'll call next year.

I disagree completely with the OP btw. We have 5 OOC losses. Stinnett has shown time after time he can't handle tough situations. It's on the coaches for taking Stone Simmons out. Just because they won a national championship last year doesn't mean they're exempt from making mistakes. They're still elite coaches. No one is saying they don't know what they're doing. But even Lemonis said it was probably mistake. He doesn't need people making excuses for him.

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It's not a rebuilding year if some of our bullpen pitchers could step up. That's the whole point of my post. This is the most power we have ever had on a team.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

The coaches didn't let Tulane off the hook. The players did that

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It's not always an either / or scenario. Players can fail while the coaches make failing moves that doesn't put players in a good chance to succeed. You can have both happening and be correct to critique coaches and give much more blame to them (and as a coach, you take the blame for losses and the players get the credit for wins...you have to understand that is where many coaches come from when criticizing other coaches). At the end of the day when looking at the entire game and coaching moves, the Coach made poor decisions yesterday that cost us the game...regardless of what errors/mistakes the players made on the field, the game should have been won with better coaching decisions. And I think Lemonis is an outstanding coach...while also knowing that he will make mistakes that cost his teams games over his entire coaching career.

Players and coaches both put it on cruise control. That's a total lack of focus and leadership. I'm fine with using a ton of guys, but you don't sacrifice games to do it.

We also "need to see" if Simmons can close a game out.

There is a time and a place to do what they did.
That wasn't the time or place. If the game was 10-2 in the 8th or 9th and they want to bring in Stinnett- fine. 10-8 with the game on the line- no.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Players and coaches both put it on cruise control. That's a total lack of focus and leadership. I'm fine with using a ton of guys, but you don't sacrifice games to do it.

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This.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

You can't have your cake and eat it too though when we don't have enough people stepping up early. You have to let them Pitch in tough situation's.

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Funny, I always thought you played to win. This was a good situation to see if Stone could close. We've seen the other guys.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We also "need to see" if Simmons can close a game out.

There is a time and a place to do what they did.
That wasn't the time or place. If the game was 10-2 in the 8th or 9th and they want to bring in Stinnett- fine. 10-8 with the game on the line- no.

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Exactly. I made my post before reading yours. Can't believe anyone would defend the management of that game. Lemo screwed up. It's ok to say that.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Funny, I always thought you played to win. This was a good situation to see if Stone could close. We've seen the other guys.

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Plus Lemonis said it was the wrong move himself. Time to move on to today.

Stevie Wonder could see it coming when before Stinnett took the mound to warm up. He just doesnt have it.

I will just say though that a LOT of things contributed to this loss, not just the mismanagement of the bullpen. When you get ripped 9-0 from the bottom of the 4th to the end of the game, a lot of things have to go wrong all at the same time. Heck, we couldn't even plate one run in the final 6 innings. We allowed a guy to score from second on a sac fly. It was a lot of bad baseball from every aspect of our team.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

The coaches didn't let Tulane off the hook. The players did that

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I wish the Tulane coach would have pulled the kid that shut us down for 5 innings, after 3 outs, and put in the most struggling kid from the pen to let him figure it out.

Yep, understand that players gotta play. Also, I've lost track of our record now. 6-5? This is not the first loss, the worse loss, or most lopsided loss. I'm also not saying that Lemo is a bad coach. Yesterday was bad, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

It's not always an either / or scenario. Players can fail while the coaches make failing moves that doesn't put players in a good chance to succeed. You can have both happening and be correct to critique coaches and give much more blame to them (and as a coach, you take the blame for losses and the players get the credit for wins...you have to understand that is where many coaches come from when criticizing other coaches). At the end of the day when looking at the entire game and coaching moves, the Coach made poor decisions yesterday that cost us the game...regardless of what errors/mistakes the players made on the field, the game should have been won with better coaching decisions. And I think Lemonis is an outstanding coach...while also knowing that he will make mistakes that cost his teams games over his entire coaching career.

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And I'm not argue that he doesn't make mistakes. Just like all the coaches do. The issue is that people were arguing the same thing last year and he's trying to get these boys to grow up. Mistakes or not, we as fans often fail to realize that he is playing the long game and makes decisions that are contrary to what we think is best. He gave players a chance to make plays yesterday and it didn't happen. That might make it a mistake while at the same time justify his reason for doing so.

Sure is nice having those who advanced further than me and who've coached make threads like this. Thank You Gentlemen.

Les Miles won a NC- doesn’t mean every decision he made thereafter couldn’t be questioned

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Les Miles won a NC- doesn?t mean every decision he made thereafter couldn?t be questioned

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Right or wrong, I'm just saying there is a method to his madness. We all complain including me last year early in the season when he did the same thing.

Do you get those checks in the mail on the 1st or the 15th?

The first guy Walker faced pulled a foul ball out of the park on his first pitch. The next pitch was in the dirt. The next pitch was scorched to the left field corner. Then he hits the next guy on the first pitch. How much longer after that exhibition does a coach need to see a guy probably doesn?t have it. The game was lost with Walker on the mound. We had a 10-2 lead, then a 10-3 lead when that inning started. We had a 10-8 lead with no outs on Tulane when Walker left the game. Remember, they had already scored a run before he loaded the bases and gave up the slam. Decisions could have been made right there in that inning to change the course of the game. And those decisions were made. They left Walker in. Ball game.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

If it was after we clinch, didn't we just release some pressure? Therefore it's not an accurate measurement? Plus we might go out and win 20-2 today.

Remember, the coaches have watched these guys every day for years. Not just in games but in practice, scrimmages, etc. Every single day. You select guys for situations based on all that data you collect and you roll with them as long as you can. You don't let one or two letdowns undo months of work until you absolutely have to start making decisions, which for us is typically at the start of conference play.

Lemonis and Foxhall wanted Stinnett yesterday afternoon. That was decided before the game that if it's close he's gonna close it. Because that's the situation they need to evaluate him in and have data to say we think he can get the job done. Now they start adjusting those expectations as we get closer to go time.

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Good point/

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

Right or wrong, I'm just saying there is a method to his madness. We all complain including me last year early in the season when he did the same thing.

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Coaches aren?t perfect- including me. I?ve made some offensive calls we look at on film on Sundays and go ?wtf????

Same goes with Lemon and Fox. Pulling Simmons for Stinnett was a bad coaching move. It?s ok. It won?t be their last dumb move. Bad job coaches

On the plus side- our new softball line up is working out great. Good job coaches

[QUOTE=Cowbell;1415179]And I'm not argue that he doesn't make mistakes. Just like all the coaches do. The issue is that people were arguing the same thing last year and he's trying to get these boys to grow up. Mistakes or not, we as fans often fail to realize that he is playing the long game and makes decisions that are contrary to what we think is best. He gave players a chance to make plays yesterday and it didn't happen. That might make it a mistake while at the same time justify his reason for doing so.[/

I understand completely he is trying to find the pieces for the season and for some players for it to payoff next year. Don't have a problem with development at all, but you've put the loss completely on the players and their lack of execution. The coach job, even during development, has to put players in position to succeed and he didn't. That includes the correct use of personnel within the development model. That game loss is on coaching, the development should not be at the expense of game that was won by poor decisions from the coach.

I had no problem pulling Johnson and bringing in Walker...but can't ever let a pitcher go that long with no outs...you just negated the development aspect by leaving him in too long to take a huge confidence hit...that's a fail by the coach. Stinnett is a compounded the bad decision at that spot. Doesn't change that he is a great coach and trying to develop and find players for the long term is the correct process.

[QUOTE=Really Clark?;1415221]

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

And I'm not argue that he doesn't make mistakes. Just like all the coaches do. The issue is that people were arguing the same thing last year and he's trying to get these boys to grow up. Mistakes or not, we as fans often fail to realize that he is playing the long game and makes decisions that are contrary to what we think is best. He gave players a chance to make plays yesterday and it didn't happen. That might make it a mistake while at the same time justify his reason for doing so.[/

I understand completely he is trying to find the pieces for the season and for some players for it to payoff next year. Don't have a problem with development at all, but you've put the loss completely on the players and their lack of execution. The coach job, even during development, has to put players in position to succeed and he didn't. That includes the correct use of personnel within the development model. That game loss is on coaching, the development should not be at the expense of game that was won by poor decisions from the coach.

I had no problem pulling Johnson and bringing in Walker...but can't ever let a pitcher go that long with no outs...you just negated the development aspect by leaving him in too long to take a huge confidence hit...that's a fail by the coach. Stinnett is a compounded the bad decision at that spot. Doesn't change that he is a great coach and trying to develop and find players for the long term is the correct process.

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Great post.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

I have a different take than the majority on here. I'm fine with what the coaches did yesterday. I said it before the homerun. That loss is in no way on the coaches. Players have to make plays. The McGowan /Tanner exchange was poor. Not hitting for 7 innings was poor. Cumbest swinging at 3 balls with the bases loaded was poor. Pitchers not throwing strikes is poor.

I can't believe some of you haven't figured out what Lemonis is doing in these situations. He is bringing in players to make plays in pressure situations. Our bullpen is thin and everyone here can agree on that. If we don't have bullpen guys step up in pressure situations, we could go undefeated and it won't matter one bit in the postseason when you need day 3 and 4 pitchers more than ever. How many times have we seen pitchers who got shelled at times in the regular season all of a sudden become shut down in the postseason. Cole Gordon, Will Bednar, and our current Saturday starter are examples. Lemonis has to expose these kids to pressure situations to gain confidence, to mature, and to not fear failure. The first step to not failing is to not fear failure.

Remember our coaching staff won a natty with a team that was average at best many times during the regular season. They know what they are doing. The Long Game. This team has some pieces. But guys have to mature in pressure situations before we know what this team is capable of.

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It's called coaching to be the last one standing. We think coaching is winning every game you play.

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Originally Posted by Percho

It's called coaching to be the last one standing. We think coaching is winning every game you play.

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If we dont start winning some games quickly we will be the first team sitting at home.

Poot noises

Well this thread aged like a peanut butter sandwich on top of a single wide trailer in August