Printable View
I am not clueless in baseball but I wont even pretend to breakdown his swing and what is going on with him rn. But I am concerned. And it is still very early but just to spark conversation, for you baseball guys what is the deal? He has obviously proven he can play and I know rowdy/Mangum/Allen all had slumps at times but to me he looks defeated. We are counting on him to be a dawg and I have seen some talk of him being benched for McGowan??
Some players start slow. Some players press early in the season trying to firm up their spot. Some players are inconsistent and unpredictable. That's baseball.
4 games is a tiny sample size. You can solidly wait a month before you "have" to be concerned.
It's not his swing, it's mental and/or emotional. Can't say what is causing it but his attitude/confidence/personal problems, etc....something is effecting his ability internally.
I think it's more mental than anything(as most slumps are with good hitters). He may be pressing because I'm sure there's high expectations for him after what he did in the CWS. You can tell it's in his head right now. The expression on his face after he hit that shot right at the second baseman said it all. It's the "what do I have to do to get a hit" look. Been there done that. What you hope is that with a young hitter he doesn't keep falling into the abyss mentally and stays positive and eventually breaks out. Easier said than done. I think he'll be fine it may just take a few weeks. He's never gonna be a real high average guy, he's gonna hit for power and k some. We really need him to figure it out.
Change ups and sliders are not only hard to pick up, but when a player struggles with them, it can really get into their head.
I?ll never forget my first scrimmage in juco. My first at bat, I saw my first ever change up and it had a profound life changing affect. In hs, I rarely swung and totally missed, but after seeing that change up, I immediately started doubting myself.
That might be what is going on with Clark.
I think Clark has a great swing. It may be a little long, but overall it's a great swing. What I see is that he is swinging at bad pitches. Swinging at pitches outside of the zone will make a great hitter look terrible....unless your name is Jake Mangum.
I think this is spot on. Unless your are Jake or TA only swing at good pitches. Those two got hits out of the dirt as routine. Both were generational hitters.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
That reminds me of an interview with Kyle Peterson after the CWS. And I love Peterson's analysis in college ball. Better than anyone else in my opinion. He said last summer that Clark's swing should be what kids try to emulate. That says quite a lot coming from him.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
I'll also add Clark is not recognizing spin right now and that'll get you in a bind quick. That 3-2 breaking ball he swung at that bounced, with runners on Sunday told me a lot. He had already determined he was swinging at that pitch before it was thrown and the pitch was never a strike. He has a great swing but it's in his head right now.
Sounds like Rowdey this time of year...every year
I like to look at:
1) What are you swinging at
2) What are you not swinging at
3) When are you doing #1 and 2
4) What are you missing
Clark is mentally not in it right now. Swinging at too many bad pitches in not swing at bad pitch counts. Swinging and missing at a big ass slider out of the zone 0-0 is mental. Swinging and missing at a big ass slider 3-2 out of the zone is baseball. Missing a good FB 3-1 is baseball. Not swinging at a good FB 3-1 is mental. I've seen Clark do too many of the mental things I mentioned wrong in the first few games.
Now obviously there are some trends and scouting things that can make those irrelevant, but we very clearly are a team that hunts the FB and it's preached to our guys. He's got to do better there.
He might need to take a seat Sunday for one game if he's still struggling as bad as he has.
A lot of these new coaches would probably advise against it but I would tell him to shorten up his swing a little and just try to get a single. Once he does that I think he'll get more comfortable and get going. And NO I don't want to revamp his swing. Just trying to get him to focus on the ball and not try to do too much.
If it's the same pitch and location then he probably needs to see it on video and then make an adjustment based on what people are doing to him.
That's my two cents.
Good post by Hoops and now yours. His swing looks fine. His pitch selection and recognition not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Baseball can be like that. Sometime you see the ball great and it looks like a softball coming up there. Sometime you struggle and it looks like a freaking golf ball coming at ya. That's why hitting .300 is success in baseball. It's tough.
Now- certain hitters have pitches that give them problems. They just dont pick them up well for whatever reason. For my personal experience- it was the slider. I was fine on the FB. 12/6 curveball gives people problems but not me. Could pick it up. Slider? I'm flailing up there like Serrano. It didnt even have to be a good slider- just something that moved 2 to 8 and I looked pitiful. Just never could see it. The change does that to alot of hitters
Here's the good problem for us:
McGowan is performing so Clark is going to have to get fixed sooner than later.
Leggs is performing so now Foreskin doesnt get the leeway of struggling for 20 games.
Hines has to perform or we have other bats we can DH
Our roster is deep. We have as good of a bench as I've seen in awhile. Very encouraging.
Agreed, great post!Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I'll have to disagree. Changeups and sliders are pretty easy to pick up, as with any pitch. Have to look at release point and hand position before it comes out to get a jump on it. A hitter also has to learn the release points of each pitch by watching other AB's.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlSwearengen
Secondly, you have to study the scouting report of what each pitcher is trying to do, what they do in each situation, and what your scouting report says about you. If you learn your scouting report and study each pitcher, you as a hitter should know what pitch the pitcher is going to throw before the catcher gives him the signal, especially in college. Most college pitchers are book pitchers, and it usually takes me 3-5 hitters to figure out which side of the book they are pitching from, without a scouting report. Give me a report and the pitch calling will improve from 80% to about 95%. Are they a back-up pitcher or are they a mixup pitcher.
When you get into higher levels, it is a little more difficult to predict the pitch but it's still about 75% at the MLB level, for me, after a handful of batters and knowing the pitchers tendencies.
As I said during the game 2 thread, it looks like one team spent time in their hotel rooms studying the scouting reports and the other spent their time in the district. The LBSt AB's showed me that they had studied our pitchers. Their swings and approaches indicated that. As I've been frustrated in past years with State baseball teams, it seems like they believe they can out talent other teams and do not appear to study the scouting reports. If we truly did study them, the swings and approaches would be much different.
As with Clark, he's probably pressing. He needs to understand the current holes in his swing and focus on the pitchers going there, because they will continue until he hits them out of it.
Same with Logan Tanner. He's going to see first pitch off speed about 75-80 of his AB's this year, if not more. He needs to Sit Curve ball and hit the pitchers out of it, especially RH pitchers. He will get curve balls from RH pitchers and mostly changeups from LH. It's baseball and it's what happens to the best hitter in the lineup. You need to hit like a pitcher if that makes sense.
An extra tidbit, once you learn to get 75-85% of the pitches correct, you can then start to predict hit and run, bunts, steals and other things by watching the players in the field. Opening game of Biloxi Shuckers I was sitting first row behind dugout and trying to steal the opponents signs. Kept watching 3B coach give runner on first, while watching where and how far he took his lead. Then the signal changed by hitting a different part of the body and the runner shortened his lead a half step. LH pitcher came set and i started yelling Pick Pick Pick. He lifted his leg and runner went first move. They got him at 2nd. The players and coaches all turned around after that to see who called it. Was pretty neat.
Baseball is all about patterns and learning them, while being able to see a change n them. That's why you can only do the fielding predictions in person. The runners and infielders give it all away. Ok, i'll stop now. My goal is to one day retire early and go volunteer at Tulane to be their pitch caller, signal stealer. Something I learned long ago and it still works.
I played baseball for 25 years and coached it for 20. I stopped reading right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
Rouge, I've always done the same thing with pick-off moves. If I ever got on 1st, I'd usually end up on 2nd. I was fast but not super base stealing fast. I just learned to read pitchers. I still do it from the stands and Luis Pollorena had the best move I've ever seen in my life. I never could pick up on anything he was doing. I also recall him picking off a shitload of runners during his time here. Guess nobody else could get a read on him either.
So you've played and coached baseball. As well as football? And work at buffalo wild wings? Next you're going to tell me how to cardiovert SVT.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I played baseball very well and loved it. I’ve coached football very well and loved itQuote:
Originally Posted by Activated Alpha
Lots of good posts and information. As for Clark, he'll figure it out.
I'm sorry but anyone thinking you can pick up spin at this level is easy by simply reading the release angle and hand position hasn't ever seen high level pitching. This is not the 1980's HS with a kid who can't break 82 and has to do something different with his arm to make the ball move. The bulk of these players release at the exact same point, with same hand position, with identical arm slot and body position for all of their pitches. Look at just Landon on fastball and slider, if you are trying to concentrate on hand position to pick up the pitch and not micro-focusing on actual spin, you are absolutely dead at that speed and revs. You won't touch either pitch.
https://twitter.com/pitchingninja/st...438521861?s=21
Will Bednar, not as good of an overlay but you get the idea, same arm angle, hand position and release point
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3p0CjeGU8c
Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
BS.. Any relatively good MLB hitter that can 'know' what 75% of pitches are would have well over .500 BA! It's NOT that easy in mlb when most pitchers have good command of 3 - 5 different pitches!
Pitching has really benefitted a lot by technology and also by I think people trying to figure out how to throw hard with location while minimizing injury. And the result is pitcher's throwing stuff like that. 20 years ago if a team in the SEC had some guys throwing 88-91 that was probably one of the more elite staffs in the country stuff wise. Now I mean you look at our recruits and they're throwing 91-93 and sometimes even harder in high school. A lot of that is mechanics focused and part of that is deception by having a consistent arm angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
By the same token, I think hitting has regressed even though the technology is better. To me there seems to be too much focus on the swing mechanics and trying to get into that slot and pulling everything, don't worry about striking out and I think unlike pitching it seems like there is a lack of teaching hitters how to handle certain situations, maybe not enough focus on pitch recognition, and etc. And then you see these hitters getting shifted on or they get into these deep slumps because they have a massive hole in their swing and pitchers just keep attacking them in that spot. And I sometimes wonder if that's what happens to a guy like Hatcher last year and maybe even Clark this year.
It seems to me like right now in baseball the pitchers come into college way ahead and then the hitters a lot of times almost have to be completely built or rebuilt unless they have an approach like a Tanner Allen coming in which seems to be exceedingly rare.
I think hitting would catch up to pitching if there was more focus and better use of the technology on like hey maybe you can hit a home run to right field AND left field and it's going to make you a much better player. Or here's how you should try to hit with two strikes to help your team out more than striking out.
Maybe Clark needs glasses. You would be surprised how many kids his age won?t wear glasses that need them.
https://media.giphy.com/media/2l34lL...u9Hp/giphy.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
It's 100% mental. I think some pretty high expectations were placed on Kellum, and it's getting to him. And while those expectations were based on talent and potential, which he has, I'm not sure he's done anything to warrant it. Yes, he had two huge bombs in the CWS, but other than that, he hasn't done a whole lot in terms of production. He was sick for most of the season last year, so it's really not that surprising that he's struggling. He's got a mental hurdle to overcome. The good news is, Gautreau is one of the best and will work with him to get it fixed. It's a process but like others said, we've got good depth that gives us time to figure it out.
You may not agree with that first statement and I can see why but his reasoning behind that statement did have some merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I don't know if he is right but not reading it is a cop out and wreaks of not being willing to listen to anyone else's ideas simply because you know everything.
My eyesight was not good enough to pick up pitches and I was left out in the cold once pitchers figured out that I couldn't see. FB? I was a champ... curve, slider or change up? I stunk it up and never learned how to pick them up.
This is right on.Quote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
4 games.... ha. dude will figure it out. He will figure it out quicker if he lays off the fat chicks.
Pitch recognition is not easy. Not at this level. The rest isn't worthy of a reply....Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeDawg
Look Clark proved in crunch time last year he can hit elite pitching. Did he pickup a hitch in his swing during summer ball or during fall? It is possible but that is why we have Gautreaux. You also have to think that fall ball hitting off of a tee or in a cage might have elongated his swing, then figure in his first few live scrimmage ABs were against Sims and company and poof now his confidence has taken a hit.
Just back off, his eyes and hands will catch back up to speed. He will make the adjustment necessary, high level D1 ball like this is not a sit on one pitch to hit, you have to learn to go with pitches and use the whole field. Clark even last year was a pull first hitter and dead red hitter. Pitchers know that with him so he needs tee work on outer half and front foot tee drills. It will also slow his hands and force him to stay back through his swing. But I am not Gautreaux and he pounds his chest on 2 strikes so he has it under control.
Just my 2 cents. Clark will be fine and an everyday starter and major contributor
I have always thought MSU played bad baseball in cold weather - below 60 degrees. I have noticed that for many years. I know my thoughts are not technical, like most of you guys are, as far as mechanics go and how early in the season it is and that repetition and experience will correct that - hopefully. Anyway, that is my observation.
I pray for warm weather for playing baseball!
Get his eyes checked first. Should be mandatory for all players honestly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13QJ...elingNostalgicQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
When I was his age, at MSU, I also had trouble seeing and concentrating. I did not have Morpheus or eye glasses to help me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-29-2016/yq-NyT.gif
Sounds like Clark likes them thickQuote:
Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead
I think people are remembering his performance last year with some maroon colored glasses. He had some huge hits and showed flashes of his talent, but while there were promising signs, it's not like he had settled in as a hitter and clearly had things figured out. He still looked lost some at bats, even while looking good at others. Based on the fact that he hit sub .200 in cape cod, I think maybe he just hasn't figured things out yet and and he just happened to have some good luck at the end of last year. Hopefully I am wrong, but wrong or right, I do think it's just a matter of time. But it may be he's still figuring things out to begin with, not trying to break out of a slump.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentSteel16
Probably part of his NIL deal.**Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6qvJp4zPlY&ab_channel=TEAMSUPERSAIYAN
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Well considering this slump he’s in now I’d say he needs to go after the fatter ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead