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Joe Moorhead - D+
Ben Howland - C
Chris Lemonis - A+
Nikki MP - F
Mike Leach - Jury is still out, but I give him a B- to this point
Am I missing any? Are my grades off? Is this a guy we want hiring any more coaches outside of baseball? This does not look like a good track record to me. How long is his leash?
Moorhead beat our rival and bowl game, won 8 games in his first season. 2nd season, 10 players cheated...limited our depth/caused issues. C+
Ben Howland. Has improved the status of MSU basketball from where it was pre-RR, as we consistently have 20+ wins every year. Have won 6 of the last 8 games this season. Lame ass fans not supporting him is the reason the HUMP is no longer feared by other teams. B-
Lemonis. Yeah, he won it all...A
Nikki McRay-Pinson. On paper, it as an A+ hire. Reality is there was more drama than expected within the program already. Her cancer returning in the middle of a pandemic does not justify an F rating. Or her political stance. C-
Mike Leach. Hasn't beat our rival yet, or a bowl game. Checks out mentally in mid Nov. Too inconsistent. C
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
Nikki being an F is off. I would give an incomplete. You can't help someone's health. She got sick did she not.
He didn't hire Howland
Cannizaro: C+. We were better than expected his one year here, but his personal conduct embarrassed the program. he did recruit Tanner Allen though.
Stricklin hired Howland not Cohen. I never thought I would say this several years ago but I hope Howland doesn?t retire and comes back for a few more years if he keeps us competitive because I know Cohen will hire Rick Ray part 2
You are missing a ton in the sports no one pays attention to:Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
Dusty Smith - Men's Golf - 3 NCAA Appearances in 6 years - B
Chris Woods - T&F - B - has kept us making NCAA appearances
Charlie Ewing - Women' Golf - A - Made SEC Tourney Finals in first year
James Armstrong - Soccer - A - got us in the SEC Tourney for the first time in 15 years
Julie Darty - Volleyball - A++ - took us from the worst program on campus and in the SEC to #2 in the SEC last season and an NCAA appearance
Outside of Football and WBB - his hires have been pretty successful to date.
Leach won the Armed Forces Bowl, as much as it doesn't seem like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KentuckyDawg13
Grading Cohen on his coaches is a flawed exercise in that some of these tenures already have the benefit of hindsight while others are ongoing. I think he's done a relatively fine job with hires. Some seem to fault him for looking too hard outside the box, but I don't know why they think we'd have any more success with "safe" hires. Just look what would have happened if we'd hired Jeremy Pruitt. The reality is that hiring a great coach for your particular job is largely a complete crapshoot anywhere, and Cohen has done about the same or better than many in a similar time frame that have a whole lot more influence and resources than we do.
That being said, his performance in other areas of running the athletic department are absolutely up for criticism.
Moorhead didn't win a bowl game at State. He went 0-2. Yes he won 8 games his first year but taken into context he had arguably the best team State has ever fielded and I don't think anyone else on this board will argue that winning 8 games with the #1 defense in the nation is vastly underperforming. TBH I think the first grade was too high. Likeable guy but not a good HC. D-Quote:
Originally Posted by KentuckyDawg13
Leach has won a bowl game here. He's 1-1. It sucks being 0-2 vs OM but they did have one of their better teams and play in the Sugar Bowl this year. Leach has had some head scratchers but he's also won some big games here. Not sure where you get that he checks out mentally from but I give him a B so far. I think he will continue to improve.
Howland is in his 7th year and while the jury is still out on this one he has won more than 20 games 3 times so definitely doesn't do that every year. Howland is personally my most frustrating coaching hire. On paper he has talent to play in the tournament every year yet I believe has only gone once and then lost in the first round. Recruiting would be an A- but overall for me it's a C.
I'm rating her based on her one full season as HC. It was a disaster of a season. It looked like she was turning it around, but she never got the chance to see it through. I can see an incomplete, but her one season was really, really bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rock
That's right. I missed there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Fair enough. But I was strictly thinking along the lines of the ones that do get the most attention. Big 3 in mens, WBB, and Softball I guess. However, I did not specify.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
I agree with PGH though, I get nervous thinking about who he'll hire to replace Howland (assuming he retires after the season like some of the informed have said).
I forgot he also promoted Samantha Ricketts in Softball - which I'd grade a B+ - we were better in the SEC last season instead of bottom 2-3 and its the toughest league in the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
I think it is important to understand the whole health of our athletic program. Yes, the Big 3 are critical for $, but the other sports to me show more about a)quality of hires; and b) apathy within the dept.
Those smaller sports are driven by the coach even more than the Big 3, so if you are sitting on a coach for multiple years who has non-competitive teams your AD is lazy - because there is no-reason not to gamble on new blood.
It was bad because we had the talent to make the NCAAT and be a single digit seed, and we didn't. But it wasn't "really really bad." We just barely missed the tournament and had 0 bad losses. Only 2 of Howland's seasons have been as good NMP's 1 season (hopefully this is #3), and all of Rick Ray's were far worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
Mike Leach beat Tulsa in a bowl.
1 isn't it going to be Brooks, hasn't he been grooming him to take over?Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
2 if not, doesn't Adidas help us out from what y'all have said in the past?
Yes but give Howland a roster with recruiting rankings all in the top ten and then you can compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Cohen is much more qualified to hire a coach than the cheerleader was. He will get input from the money guys and Keenum on the hire as well. It's not like he acts alone. The Cheerleader was told to hire Howland- he didnt lead a search and make the hire. It was set up for him.
Cann was a good hire. He was successful in his 1 year. Him going nuts over a co-worker couldnt have been predicted. Ask Petrino, Wimp Sanderson, and many other coaches across this great nation. Hell, Mullen was lucky his antics got cover.
JoMo seemed like a decent hire but the guy wasnt ready for the South. Some of that should have been picked during interviews up in my opinion. Jury still out on Leach but it was an outside the box hire. We will at least compete for bowls under Leach without the drama and lack of discipline of JoMo
If we dont make the Tourney- might want to watch for a retirement by Howland.
Obviously Cohen's baseball hires have been good because of Lemonis and the 2021 success. But don't forget Cohen hired Cannizzaro who does not get an ounce of credit for our recent success but he's the largest contributor IMO. Cannizzaro is the primary reason MSU landed Tanner Allen, Rowdy Jordan, Jordan Westburg, Justin Foscue, Landon Sims, Logan Tanner just to name a few. Without Cohen hiring Cannizzaro MSU doesn't win a natty in 21.
Judging hires after the fact is stupid. Everyone was on board with the Morehead and Leach hires.
Who here thought Cohen couldn't hire a baseball coach? Not a damn soul. We haven't had an AD with the balls to get things done outside the MSU circle of old fools since Byrne. It's the good ole boys BS here. Cohen is controllable just like the other State guys that sat in that seat. We can't get out of our own way a lot of times. But Strickland was a far better marketing guy than what we've got now. Cohen is the most shortsighted AD since Templeton.
To me, I don't think any of the Big 4 hires have been questionable. All have been hires who had all the credentials and credibility you look for -it's not like they were Rick Ray. I know from my own experience hiring can be the ultimate crap shoot - you really just don't know how someone is going to perform until they do or don't. Just look at how many big name college and pro coaches look all world at one place and like the second coming of Croom at the next. And don't give me the "good AD's know" speech. Mal Moore was one of the best and he hired Mike Price and Mike Shula. Mitch Barnhardt is considered one of the best - and he hired Joker Phillips. The key is knowing when things aren't working and taking measures to correct them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
From that perspective, I think Cohen has been very strong. He nipped the Cann thing in the bud when a lot of AD's would have waited until either the season was lost or wait the entire season. He fired the guy 3 games in, saving the season, named a great caretaker and then made the right hire for the long-term (instead of taking the easy route of just naming Hendo HC). He understood the negative impact Mullen's job hunts and the Country club recruiting was having and told him to shit or get off the pot - that's ballsy and was the right call for the health of the program. Firing JoMo was right for the health of the program. If rumors are accurate, he handled the Vic situation correctly, and made a hire that definitely checked all the boxes.
I'm not stating this as a "pro-Cohen" post - I think there are some legit criticisms on marketing, personnel levels, and some gameday operations issues that need to be addressed.
Seems like we have some "company men" on here
But you can?t bring this up because it?s hurts the Fire Cohen mob.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
So are y'all ready to spill the beans in the Vic situation yet
And the assistant with a player thing doesn't get him fired (or pushed out, or etc-however you want to play it)
I don't trust Cohen at all to hire a new men's basketball coach. If that time comes I'm hoping the big money guys can line a guy up like they did with Howland.
***whispers*** Matt McMahon
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDawg
think he also hired ...
Softball - A Made the tournament
Volleyball - A Vast improvement
Soccer - A- Vast improvement
If a coach is given the option of a) address it; or b) move on; and said coach moves on, then it's on the coach not the AD. The AD can't allow that type of situation in todays world. Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLostDawg
Yea, one of his assistants that was related to him had a relationship with a certain player from a foreign country that rhymes with Fallstralia.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLostDawg
Also, had a parents mother who would yell at him throughout the game for not playing her enough.
Sure it does when he refuses to fire the assistant when told to by the Administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLostDawg
This and I think most folks know why he didn't want to fire said asst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
But I thought said assistant was an unpaid Grad Assistant that chose to stay at State to get a Masters rather then transfer to A&M as previously planned.
As far as ?alleged? behavior, mark these words, archive it and bring it back up in 3-5 years. At some point, an administration placing restrictions on same sex unpaid grad assistants and student athletes having relationships is going to face discrimination law suits from one or both parties if they lose a scholarship or get summarily dismissed due to a technicality that states said unpaid assistant is NOT a true Authority Figure. Not sure how much Authority Vic gave said ?grad assistant?.
I personally will always fall on the side of the right of the Administration to legally discriminate against such behavior as the line blurring can cause irreparable harm to an Institution.
Not sure where The Rabbi stands on this?
Pretty sure wasnt a grad asst after 5 years in the program. Graduated in 2018 and was Honors student- this was 2020. Had a full fledged job it seems likeQuote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
Having a relationship with a player and a coach on the staff in any sport is a conflict of interest no matter the orientation of the two in the relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
No different than firing Cann for having a relationship with Lee Begley or whatever her name was/is.
I think Cohen's hiring mistakes were mostly because of inexperience and listening to bad advice from previous MSU administrators that he confided in- LT and Stricklin.
He has gotten better with experience.
The truth is it was known that Cann had issues. Which is why his alma mater Tulane didn't hire him and went with an assistant from Vanderbilt. And I'm 99% sure he would have taken the Tulane job. Really should have been a red flag. Manieri knew of his issues as well and was basically using them completely to his advantage. Which is a big reason why he was so upset when Cann left. In hindsight given the timing we should have just let Henderson be the interim and then do a national search which is essentially what happened anyway. It wasted a year or maybe two and possibly delayed us getting a National Championship be a couple of years maybe.
We could have hired someone better than Moorhead had we put forth the effort. Unfortunately Cohen's heroes got in his ear about MSU only being able to hire sitting coordinators and that's what we got. Our history shows that's actually a risky way to go as we went one for three between Croom, Dan, and Joe. Our candidate pool was much better after we fired Moorhead. We got Leach. Judge may or may not have worked out in college- we may never know. And I'm about 99% sure we could have hired Chizik or Jeff Monken from Army who all had more head coaching experience than Joe had we gotten desperate.
I'll add- Cohen's weakness isn't hiring and firing.
It's marketing and gameday experience. At least in sports that aren't baseball. Honestly if he improved those two areas he would be up there with Greg Byrne. Maybe even better since he is the only MSU AD ever to hire a coach that won a National Championship.
I do feel like we could and should be putting more into football and basketball than we are to be honest. Very little promotion for both. Heck- we even have a QB that's a potential Heisman contender. Have we heard a peep or even gotten a highlight video from MSU about Will? Unless I missed it- no.
[QUOTE=BrunswickDawg;1405394]You are missing a ton in the sports no one pays attention to:
Dusty Smith - Men's Golf - 3 NCAA Appearances in 6 years - B
Chris Woods - T&F - B - has kept us making NCAA appearances
Charlie Ewing - Women' Golf - A - Made SEC Tourney Finals in first year
James Armstrong - Soccer - A - got us in the SEC Tourney for the first time in 15 years
Julie Darty - Volleyball - A++ - took us from the worst program on campus and in the SEC to #2 in the SEC last season and an NCAA appearance
Cohen's philosophy other than Leach has been to hire up and coming assistants from proven programs. That is especially true in the non revenue generating, or Olympic sports. Yeah, he screwed up the Moorhead hire and some could say that Lemonis fell in his lap after some proven head coaches told him "NO". But none the less he got the right guy in here. I think he can be criticized for his performance in lack of marketing and some lack of planning as it relates to Davis Wade game day more than anything. And some just don't like him due to his political bias which is their right.
[QUOTE=speedy1972;1405570]I guess because I just hate both parties equally and the party system as a whole I don?t understand people being so upset over political issues when it comes to job performance. He just really turned me off with the Moorhead hire because I don?t care what the ?experts? say he did not have the background to be an SEC coach and I saw that disaster from day 1. On the other hand, I actually think he has made better choices outside Moorhead than Stricklin and like others said it seems his marketing strategies are lacking and out of date. Overall though he has won us our first NC as AD and he deserves that credit regardless of how the Lemonis hire went down. He ended up with an A+ hire. I never thought we would have a coach at state that I thought was as good as Vic but we do now with Lemonis. I am warming up to him but I do have strong concerns about what kind of hire he will make for basketball when the time comes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
[QUOTE=PGHBulldogBG;1405576]Yeah, I don't care about his political leanings one bit. Marketing, yeah, it's bad under him. Still, not necessarily what gets me ticking. The big 3, plus women's basketball (to a very minor extent) are what I pay attention to. I understand softball is pretty popular to other folks. But, for me, it's really the big 3. Baseball is in an awesome stretch, no doubt. But football and MBB just seem to be kind of wondering in the wilderness. Not terrible, but not that exciting. I have more hope for football than basketball at this point. I don't know, that's just me. WBB has really crashed back to earth, but Vic was lightning in a bottle.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy1972
I'll just enjoy baseball for the next 5 months, and let everything else sort itself out. :)