ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT

Give me a minute let me get this out... We are not as good as some on here think we are (I fall into this group) this group is going to have to accept that is reality until we are proven correct. We are also not as horrible as the other group on here thinks that we are.

I honestly thought at the beginning of the season that we were a potential nine win team. Call me crazy, I don't care, that's what I saw, and honestly I can make the argument that we should be 4-0 today and have a real possibility to win next week. So, nine wins could have really happened.

For those of us that think Leach is going to be the Bear for State, we seriously need to chill. There are things that are happening that would not be happening at any other program than State. It honestly shouldn't take this long to instill your offense, it doesn't matter who you are, it just shouldn't. I don't understand why it is taking the time that it is, is it on the whole unit or does it really sit at the feet of Will? I honestly don't know, my opinion for how much it doesn't matter is that it sits at Will's feet.

For those of you who think that Leach should be tared and feathered before he is sent walking to, you need to chill. It is really ignorant of you to not see how many youthful and inexperienced mistakes that are taking place that are completely out of Leaches control. A lot of those we can see are getting fixed week in and week out, but, inconsistency is to me the biggest sign of a youthful/inexperienced team.

My take: Neither group has enough ground to say their opinion is fact. We beat that team today, stats do matter, if we won and were killed in the stats column. We seriously would be sitting here saying that we got lucky and this isn't sustainable. But, since we are putting the stats up to win the game, there is something that is happening correctly. Also, the team hasn't quit, nor do they look like they want to. That is huge! I'm pissed, I am not hopeful but we will see what happens.

I was in the optimistic group as well.

We are really close to breaking out and as young as this team is and if they all stick around imagine it in 3 years when they are Seniors.

Think about how many snaps they will have all had over that time.

We're improving, and we have to stop killing ourselves with at the worst possible times.

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Originally Posted by memsu06

I was in the optimistic group as well.

We are really close to breaking out and as young as this team is and if they all stick around imagine it in 3 years when they are Seniors.

Think about how many snaps they will have all had over that time.

We're improving, and we have to stop killing ourselves with at the worst possible times.

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We aren't that young. Qb is yes. Rb yes. Besides that we aren't. Anywhere. That's a bs excuse

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

We aren't that young. Qb is yes. Rb yes. Besides that we aren't. Anywhere. That's a bs excuse

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No it’s not… The amount of inexperience that this team is playing with is mind blowing, think about the 2013, 2011, 2016 teams. A lot of freaking youth and inexperience. It’s a thing and we have it right now.

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

Give me a minute let me get this out... We are not as good as some on here think we are (I fall into this group) this group is going to have to accept that is reality until we are proven correct. We are also not as horrible as the other group on here thinks that we are.

I honestly thought at the beginning of the season that we were a potential nine win team. Call me crazy, I don't care, that's what I saw, and honestly I can make the argument that we should be 4-0 today and have a real possibility to win next week. So, nine wins could have really happened.

For those of us that think Leach is going to be the Bear for State, we seriously need to chill. There are things that are happening that would not be happening at any other program than State. It honestly shouldn't take this long to instill your offense, it doesn't matter who you are, it just shouldn't. I don't understand why it is taking the time that it is, is it on the whole unit or does it really sit at the feet of Will? I honestly don't know, my opinion for how much it doesn't matter is that it sits at Will's feet.

For those of you who think that Leach should be tared and feathered before he is sent walking to, you need to chill. It is really ignorant of you to not see how many youthful and inexperienced mistakes that are taking place that are completely out of Leaches control. A lot of those we can see are getting fixed week in and week out, but, inconsistency is to me the biggest sign of a youthful/inexperienced team.

My take: Neither group has enough ground to say their opinion is fact. We beat that team today, stats do matter, if we won and were killed in the stats column. We seriously would be sitting here saying that we got lucky and this isn't sustainable. But, since we are putting the stats up to win the game, there is something that is happening correctly. Also, the team hasn't quit, nor do they look like they want to. That is huge! I'm pissed, I am not hopeful but we will see what happens.

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Reasonable

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

We aren't that young. Qb is yes. Rb yes. Besides that we aren't. Anywhere. That's a bs excuse

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No it's not. The skill position players are extremely young & fairly new to this offense.

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Originally Posted by memsu06

I was in the optimistic group as well.

We are really close to breaking out and as young as this team is and if they all stick around imagine it in 3 years when they are Seniors.

Think about how many snaps they will have all had over that time.

We're improving, and we have to stop killing ourselves with at the worst possible times.

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Interesting. We've gone from "wait until year 3" to "wait 3 more years" when we're in year 2. That can is getting beat to hell as much as it's getting kicked down the road.

I’m not down for wiring three more years. That train is not a train I want on.

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

No it?s not? The amount of inexperience that this team is playing with is mind blowing, think about the 2013, 2011, 2016 teams. A lot of freaking youth and inexperience. It?s a thing and we have it right now.

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Every team is young somewhere, young is a losers excuse.

I was in the camp when Leach was hired that I've got doubts but I'll give Leach a chance and hope it works. About the same with Joe and Croom. After 1-2 years, I saw all I needed to see. Now same with Leach.

I know we can't fire him now and at the earliest after next year but nothing is going to change. If Leach adapts then yes he can win some but he has shown no will or ability to adapt in 30 years. Someone show me where he has changed? Winning coaches adapt - Saban. Leach is gonna beat that square peg in round hole and he has too many MSU fans fooled.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Every team is young somewhere, young is a losers excuse.

I was in the camp when Leach was hired that I've got doubts but I'll give Leach a chance and hope it works. About the same with Joe and Croom. After 1-2 years, I saw all I needed to see. Now same with Leach.

I know we can't fire him now and at the earliest after next year but nothing is going to change. If Leach adapts then yes he can win some but he has shown no will or ability to adapt in 30 years. Someone show me where he has changed? Winning coaches adapt - Saban. Leach is gonna beat that square peg in round hole and he has too many MSU fans fooled.

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We are just going to have to disagree. Youth is a real thing in sports, youth makes mistakes that vets don’t make. Balls don’t bounce the way of youthful teams because those teams are not in the same place that more veteran teams is. I’m not making an excuse it’s just reality. If we want anything to happen this year they must grow up pretty much this week.

Texas A&M and Auburn are vulnerable. I think we can beat them if we play a clean game with no stupid mistakes that have been killing us.

Defense can't give up easy TDs like at LSU. Offense needs to score after they get in the red zone whether it's field goals or TDs.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

No it's not. The skill position players are extremely young & fairly new to this offense.

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We are going to lose 5 maybe 6 starters on offense after this season. So what will we be next year on offense?

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Originally Posted by memsu06

Texas A&M and Auburn are vulnerable. I think we can beat them if we play a clean game with no stupid mistakes that have been killing us. .

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"Goshdarn it guys. If we play absolutely perfect we can win!!!!!!"

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We are going to lose 5 maybe 6 starters on offense after this season. So what will we be next year on offense?

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Hopefully a run heavy spread option team.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We are going to lose 5 maybe 6 starters on offense after this season. So what will we be next year on offense?

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Who all are we losing?

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Who all are we losing?

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Williams
Heath
Sharp
Lashley
Cross (likely leaves for draft)

Then it will be wait and see on Polk, Calvin, and Jones on whether they return or not.

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

We are just going to have to disagree. Youth is a real thing in sports, youth makes mistakes that vets don?t make. Balls don?t bounce the way of youthful teams because those teams are not in the same place that more veteran teams is. I?m not making an excuse it?s just reality. If we want anything to happen this year they must grow up pretty much this week.

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Yeah I know youth is a real thing. My point is the issue with that excuse. Every team in America has youth playing minutes. There is no team full of juniors and seniors. It is a mixture of freshmen thru seniors also with transfers.

If our team had 75% freshmen starting or something, that is a reason. But fact is we don't.

The senior laden team is the case for making a championship run every X years not putting a decent product on the field. Our issues have nothing to do with youth.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

"Goshdarn it guys. If we play absolutely perfect we can win!!!!!!"

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2lgOO2fapA

Sometimes you have to look at things more closely. Consider looking at this YouTube file at time lines 0.05 and 0.06 on the seek bar of this video. MSU receiver Heath is 6ft3in 220lbs. He gets a good pass thrown to him and he places the football on his outside hand. Heath sees the defender size him up and he for some odd reason changes the ball to his inside hand in just a perfect spot for the defender to place his helmet on it? The big receivers body language shows fear before the contact and he does not cover up the ball with the free hand. The big receiver protects his legs instead of the ball. While protecting his legs, his possession hand widens away from his high and tight rib area. The game turned on that play because the receiver was fearful. This is not playing quality ball and the quarterback was not at fault. Throwing to fearful receivers will have an effect on the quarterbacks mindset also? Use some slow motion while watching two seconds of video?

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Williams
Heath
Sharp
Lashley
Cross (likely leaves for draft)

Then it will be wait and see on Polk, Calvin, and Jones on whether they return or not.

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Add Walley to the return or not.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

"Goshdarn it guys. If we play absolutely perfect we can win!!!!!!"

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No, we don't have to play absolutely perfect to win BUT right now we are sloppy, sloppy, undisciplined football team that has no attention to detail. That is not a scheme issue but I guess it could have some to do with youth if you consider us young or at least inexperienced. And is certainly a coaching issue.

But how about we stop giving our opponent a 7 point head start every week by not only fumbling away the ball on our opening possession every week but doing it over near the sideline where there is nobody to tackle anyone if the defense gets it. How about let's stop being routinely negative in the turnover column in general. Not only is our offense giving away the ball quite a bit but our defense isn't getting a lot back. Forbes INT yesterday was nice but it was so far down the field it equated to a punt. How about our punt team put in a little more attention to detail by controlling the ball when you down it or not committing a personal foul when rushing the punter costing us possessions and points. How about the defense not let a guy get behind them 30 yards and making us look silly for a TD. How about not sending the house on every 3rd down and continuing to give up these huge chunk plays or TDs. Yesterday we gave up 3 TDs on touchdown passes of over 40 yards. How about not missing chip shot FGs. How about when we execute an onside kick we not have a guy run across and illegally bulldoze an opposing player paying no attention to the ball. How about cutting out having twice the penalty yardage of our opponent with routine holding calls and personal fouls (although the holding calls were not an issue yesterday). We could easily be 4-0 right now if we had just played smart, disciplined football and not doing stupid things but I guess maybe that is too much to ask. We are not a top level team by any means nor do we have the talent to be but we've lost the last 2 weeks to teams that are not really that good and that we had every opportunity to beat.

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Originally Posted by memsu06

Texas A&M and Auburn are vulnerable. I think we can beat them if we play a clean game with no stupid mistakes that have been killing us.

Defense can't give up easy TDs like at LSU. Offense needs to score after they get in the red zone whether it's field goals or TDs.

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You forgot to add that the special teams has to not so many drive extending stupid penalties, in other words we have to play like a well coached team- something that has been missing for several years.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

No, we don't have to play absolutely perfect to win BUT right now we are sloppy, sloppy, undisciplined football team that has no attention to detail. That is not a scheme issue but I guess it could have some to do with youth if you consider us young or at least inexperienced. And is certainly a coaching issue.

But how about we stop giving our opponent a 7 point head start every week by not only fumbling away the ball on our opening possession every week but doing it over near the sideline where there is nobody to tackle anyone if the defense gets it. How about let's stop being routinely negative in the turnover column in general. Not only is our offense giving away the ball quite a bit but our defense isn't getting a lot back. Forbes INT yesterday was nice but it was so far down the field it equated to a punt. How about our punt team put in a little more attention to detail by controlling the ball when you down it or not committing a personal foul when rushing the punter costing us possessions and points. How about the defense not let a guy get behind them 30 yards and making us look silly for a TD. How about not sending the house on every 3rd down and continuing to give up these huge chunk plays or TDs. Yesterday we gave up 3 TDs on touchdown passes of over 40 yards. How about not missing chip shot FGs. How about when we execute an onside kick we not have a guy run across and illegally bulldoze an opposing player paying no attention to the ball. How about cutting out having twice the penalty yardage of our opponent with routine holding calls and personal fouls (although the holding calls were not an issue yesterday). We could easily be 4-0 right now if we had just played smart, disciplined football and not doing stupid things but I guess maybe that is too much to ask. We are not a top level team by any means nor do we have the talent to be but we've lost the last 2 weeks to teams that are not really that good and that we had every opportunity to beat.

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What you describe is very poorly coached team, especially when nothing seems to get better and we keep making the same mistakes week after week.

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

No it?s not? The amount of inexperience that this team is playing with is mind blowing, think about the 2013, 2011, 2016 teams. A lot of freaking youth and inexperience. It?s a thing and we have it right now.

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I suspect if we had a normal 2020 with a spring training and a regular season playing G5 OOC games, then in 2021 spring training and up to now things would be a lot better. In my opinion 2020 does not count. They did not get to spend the entire spring and summer of that year being together, working out together. I think that is why so many conferences are down this year. Wake Forest is the best team in the ACC.

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Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked

Add Walley to the return or not.

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I didn't want to post but yes that's a solid rumor. Not happy with his being demoted. Might be joining his brother. Lot could change but we have kids who aren't responsive to this staff

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Originally Posted by redstickdawg

What you describe is very poorly coached team, especially when nothing seems to get better and we keep making the same mistakes week after week.

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The O Line was way better yesterday than the first three weeks.

Walley played baseball for me for several years and I still talk to him and my son talks to him just about every day. Just want y'all to know he's playing through a dinged up knee and ankle right now and he's NOT planning on going anywhere. I'm not well connected like some of y'all seem to be but I know some
Of these guys personally and I have for years and this is first hand from him. Take it fwiw.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

No, we don't have to play absolutely perfect to win BUT right now we are sloppy, sloppy, undisciplined football team that has no attention to detail. That is not a scheme issue but I guess it could have some to do with youth if you consider us young or at least inexperienced. And is certainly a coaching issue.

But how about we stop giving our opponent a 7 point head start every week by not only fumbling away the ball on our opening possession every week but doing it over near the sideline where there is nobody to tackle anyone if the defense gets it. How about let's stop being routinely negative in the turnover column in general. Not only is our offense giving away the ball quite a bit but our defense isn't getting a lot back. Forbes INT yesterday was nice but it was so far down the field it equated to a punt. How about our punt team put in a little more attention to detail by controlling the ball when you down it or not committing a personal foul when rushing the punter costing us possessions and points. How about the defense not let a guy get behind them 30 yards and making us look silly for a TD. How about not sending the house on every 3rd down and continuing to give up these huge chunk plays or TDs. Yesterday we gave up 3 TDs on touchdown passes of over 40 yards. How about not missing chip shot FGs. How about when we execute an onside kick we not have a guy run across and illegally bulldoze an opposing player paying no attention to the ball. How about cutting out having twice the penalty yardage of our opponent with routine holding calls and personal fouls (although the holding calls were not an issue yesterday). We could easily be 4-0 right now if we had just played smart, disciplined football and not doing stupid things but I guess maybe that is too much to ask. We are not a top level team by any means nor do we have the talent to be but we've lost the last 2 weeks to teams that are not really that good and that we had every opportunity to beat.

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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! All of that can be and on my end will be attributed to a youthful/inexperienced football team.

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Originally Posted by redstickdawg

What you describe is very poorly coached team, especially when nothing seems to get better and we keep making the same mistakes week after week.

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This is simply not true… you can see week after week things are getting better. First week: we cannot block a sole on offensive line second week: not really an issue. Once that was fixed the glaring issue was the Pre snaps penalties. That seems to have been fixed (we will see this week if it’s consistent). All we as fans can do is ask for the obvious to be fixed the next week. It is happening, a lot of our errors are effort or lack of focus errors. I will not put this at the feet of Leach because he has always had really focused teams. You have to look at this being attributed to youthful mistakes.

The moment I don’t see this team caring that is the moment that we need to change. But they constantly are fighting and keeping us in the game until the end even though they keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Which I cannot say for a lot of Mullen coached games.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

I suspect if we had a normal 2020 with a spring training and a regular season playing G5 OOC games, then in 2021 spring training and up to now things would be a lot better. In my opinion 2020 does not count. They did not get to spend the entire spring and summer of that year being together, working out together. I think that is why so many conferences are down this year. Wake Forest is the best team in the ACC.

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That’s a really good point. I was looking at scores yesterday trying to figure out how all these teams that are usually really on top seem to be struggling. That makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Walley played baseball for me for several years and I still talk to him and my son talks to him just about every day. Just want y'all to know he's playing through a dinged up knee and ankle right now and he's NOT planning on going anywhere. I'm not well connected like some of y'all seem to be but I know some
Of these guys personally and I have for years and this is first hand from him. Take it fwiw.

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Thanks for the info… praying it gets healed quick for him!

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

The O Line was way better yesterday than the first three weeks.

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That was probably the brightest spot on offense, but having WR's run freely in the secondary is simply terrible play as was the jumping into the punt block. eitehr we have some poor coaching or some folks that don't pay attention, idk?

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

Thanks for the info… praying it gets healed quick for him!

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Some have alluded on here to him not running hard or being lazy running routes. It's why you have to be careful saying stuff like that when you may not know everything. What may look like a kids not running hard it maybe he's doing all he can on basically one leg trying to help the team. Just my 2 cents but I've known Jaden for a long time and he's not one to dog it.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Some have alluded on here to him not running hard or being lazy running routes. It's why you have to be careful saying stuff like that when you may not know everything. What may look like a kids not running hard it maybe he's doing all he can on basically one leg trying to help the team. Just my 2 cents but I've known Jaden for a long time and he's not one to dog it.

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Roger that! Yeah, I didn’t see him running slowly. You can tell through interviews and how he has played he isn’t a quitter.