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I broached this after the UK loss, but one more time.
Why: 1) Intro a totally new system with NO spring and limited summer practices
1b) Why intro a new system w/the personnel that we have...
2) Why not use what they're used to and incorporate a little of your new system every week
3) Why so stubborn. It seems so much like the ever-hated Sly Croom that we're gonna run X offense bc its mine...to hell with winning.
Right now I'm as frustrated as I've been since the Maine loss.
Well, for one, the offensive system we had was shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indndawg
For two, if you have enough practice time to keep practicing the existing offense while also installing parts of a new offense, then you probably have enough practice time to just install the offense and be better off.
I mean, Leach and no one on this staff can run our old shitty offense. We're moving to a new system. The more time spent running it, the faster it'll be perfected. We were never going to be good this year regardless.
I'm always amazed by fans that think coaches can effectively teach and coach 3-5 different schemes.
Most coaches only know their scheme well enough to effectively implement it and move the ball vs good defenses.
This idea that there is a coach on the planet that can teach triple option, spread option, air raid, and wishbone isn't reality.
These guys are specialists. They've spent their entire career perfecting ONE thing. Not learning the details of multiple offenses.
Has video games caused fans to not understand this?
If you know anything about Leach, then you know he is who he is and he runs what he runs. To think he is going to come here and change after 20 years is a pipe dream. If you don't like what he is doing and you are convinced it will never work then all your ill will should be pointed toward Cohen because he should have never been hired. I'm not convinced either way just yet because I do think we have personnel issues on offense and haven't had a chance to rep this offense enough with no Spring. So I'm willing to write off this year, but if we don't see significant improvement in 2021 then I will agree that we aren't going anywhere with this experiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indndawg
I used to joke that if we ever hired Mike Leach our fans would want him to run the wishbone. I was wrong. They want him to run the spread option.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
We have some very vocal fans that demand that MSU football run the ball. It's a little crazy. They're good at manipulating the idea that MSU simply can't and they pounce on every opportunity to point it out. The bad thing is the game is going away from running the ball and if we don't adapt we will be left behind like Georgia Tech.
It blows my mind on a daily basis how clueless some people are to how everything actually works. I don't know jack sh** about running a major SEC program, but I do know that it's pretty stupid to expect a coach to just blend his scheme with another.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
We didn't hire Leach to run the spread option or anything other than his air raid. We hired him to run the offense he is running and there were always going to be speed bumps on the way to making it click.
We are 4 games into a weird shortened season and some fans are already wanting him gone. Pure ignorance. It takes time to implement an offense and if we did try to run some mutt of an offense it would just take that much more time to get his system installed properly.
not just show how amazing his system is.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB30
So, you are wishing we kept Joe?
Well my point being isn't just to run the ball or even just pass the ball. But you keep defenses on their heels by having a somewhat balance attack. We want win averaging 28.5 yards per game with a running attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
We shall see if Leach is another EmorySlyJoe ex Coaches we have experienced having. Not sure Leach would no how to establish a running attack occasionally.
Emory was a good coach who couldn't recruit. If I remember correctly based on research since I was in diapers when he was our coach it took him a year to get it going. I think we went from Dave Marler who was a passer to John Bond and from 80-82 our offense was pretty good. And then recruiting caught up to him and we flamed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
Croom was bad- but he was known more for being a running backs coach than anything. And let's be honest our running backs were pretty good when he was here. But he was in no way a Bellard or a Leach.
Joe lacked discipline. We all know that's why he ultimately failed. He tried to adapt as much as he could if you look at the numbers- we barely threw it in the Egg Bowl- but it is what it is.
I thought we hired him for, "discipline," and winning football would come along with, "discipline."Quote:
Originally Posted by Indndawg
Go back and watch the intro video as Leach for head coach.
Discipline is what is presently going on. Discipline and wining do not take place at the same time, one follows the other.
I think that is the feeling of many myself to some degree too. Mullen blended what he wanted to do due to personnel because he wanted to compete and win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indndawg
I'm all for getting your stuff in but not at the sacrifice of the entire program. If you do then all of a sudden you lose the energy, lose recruiting and then how are you gonna attract good players? It is a balancing act and appears there is no balance in winning or even competing and getting your system in.
During the Covid year it makes even more sense to not install your whole system. Do some base stuff with some of your stuff in there.
This ain't rocket science, it has been done and can be done.
I agree he has achieved to some degree progress on the discipline and playing hard and being in shape. Give him an A there. I agree winning may lag but if we just had a below average O we would be winning. There is the rub and this from an offensive genius. I want to see progress. Playing KJ isn't progress so we'll see what Leach does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
Every single coach in this country runs their system. Saban does. Kiffin does. Mullen does. Kirby does. Unfortunately for south carolina their dude does. Everyone needs to get on board and realize this is going to a process. I am not worried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indndawg
KJ apparently cannot understand or even see defenders and the 8 player zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
So you think some base stuff with a mix of Leach's stuff will win games??? Good grief. And as far as Mullen, I figure he ran what was in his playbook that best suited his players, not some other random offense. Also, we might not have any/enough players to run much of anything in Leach's playbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Dan also started off 1-3 against the SEC. And that win was a 15-3 win over Vanderbilt. Dan had the benefit of following a coach whose last offensive performance was the 2008 Egg Bowl. Not hard to look good doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
You have to remember that Dan was a running coach and he was replacing a coach that ran the ball a lot. A lot easier to match the personnel to that when it already fits to start with.
The thing is if we asked any coach to run something that they aren't familiar with then it's probably not going to work as well and it's also going to be more difficult to recruit to what the coach wants to do because every other school that wants Sawyer Robertson is going to go running up to him and say "See- look, Leach is going away from the Air Raid". So what ends up happening is we end up having to settle for lesser players that still don't fit as well. Recruiting works both ways. "Come play for a winner" or it can be "Come play right away as a freshman".
I disagree about not installing the entire system during COVID. Why wouldn't we? Most of our guys are going to be back next year so why wouldn't we use this time to get reps? In a way it's basically a free season and now we now what our issues are and how to fix it. So I would imagine all of this will pay off for 2021. The way I see it maybe Costello comes back next year with a better understanding of the system and maybe he has a big year. Maybe he doesn't and now Will Rogers will be a freshman technically next year with about 7 and a half games worth of SEC experience going into next year.
Dan was kind of the opposite to me. We ran some wishbone and we used a H-Back/FB a lot. After 2009 the wishbone was never to be seen from again. And the H-Back/FB left after 2011. So, he somehow ended up being less creative to me as time went on. Which was sort of weird to me because I figure we can pretty much always find some walk-on that grew up a MSU football fan that would be willing to play that H-Back/FB role like Hanrahan and Sylvester Hemphill and do a good job with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
Don't remember the bone but I do remember the H back. But I bet Dan felt comfortable implementing it. Dans playbook might be 10 times thicker than Leach's so it may take Leach finding the right players to run his scheme. Hopefully Leach will implement some more wrinkles within his scheme that will prove more productive for the personnel we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Everyone ready give up on Leach needs to read his book Swing Your Sword. It's all in there. And everything you are saying is in there almost verbatim. He's heard it all before. He will get his system going.