We?ve been to Omaha 11 times. How would you rank the teams?
1971, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2007, 2013, 2018, 2019
Bonus - Out of the 11 which team should have won it all?
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We?ve been to Omaha 11 times. How would you rank the teams?
1971, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2007, 2013, 2018, 2019
Bonus - Out of the 11 which team should have won it all?
1985Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto
2013
and
2016
Were all the best teams in the country but couldn't finish the deal.
Had that 2016 team made it through Arizona, I think they were home free. Had the 2013 team had a healthy Woodruff, they were home free & had 85 not had the pitcher's ankle hit by a line drive, they were home free.
2013
1985
2018
2019
1997
1998
1990
1979
1981
1971
2007
I agree. And 1984 and 1989 was another good teams that won the SEC and didn't make it to Omaha too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
13 lacked pitching. Graveman may be my all time favorite pitcher at state but he wasn’t elite at that time. Our best arms were pen guys. I know looking at the major leaguers would lead you to the belief you have but to me they were an example of a team that got hot at the rite time...you may could argue they finally put it together. But again the pitching prevents me from saying they were THE best team in the country. I agree with your thoughts on the 16 team. The homerun rigby surrendered was the obvious killer but that one swing prevented us from making that run. Zero doubt in my mind we shove it in game three.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Was the 2013 team perfect? No but they had BY FAR the most future Major Leaguers of any team in the country that year.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoeless joe
I get your point about the starting pitching and that's why I said "if Woodruff was healthy they were home free"
They were the best team though. A healthy Woodruff combined with a Graveman and a Major League bullpen, would've made them almost unbeatable from an analytical point of view.
Not sure how to rank but 13 and 85 would be final two. 18 had some magic though, just ran out of gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto
Two legit teams. Title contenders for sure. 89 lineup was best lineup ever. Not even a close second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Good chance the 2016 team ends up having 4 Major Leaguers in the every day lineup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Did the 89 team have that many?
Not disagreeing with you, but I think what many of us run into in these debates is that some of these teams we were around during our growth years & thus their players were are heros, while other teams may technically be better but you didn't emotionally connect with at the same level
Bobby Reed if he hadn't gotten hurt for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
‘89 was the best team we ever had. They just slipped up and got in the losers bracket of a 6 team regional which is almost impossible to get thru.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
To me 2013 and 2016 were better IMO. Our program has gone up a lot since the 1980's.Quote:
Originally Posted by MStateDawg
Question: do you have to be complete and near perfect team to win it all? It sure feels that way from our perspective
2013 UCLA was a weak hitting team and only one semi-consequential MLB, two overall
2016 Costal Carolina would not have survived our regional (zero major leaguers)
2015 Virginia- one major leaguer
2008 Fresno State - 3 journeymen into MLB
2012 Arizona- 5 brief MLB debuts and flame outs
You don't have to be perfect but you do have to be tough, have an "it" factor, & have to be blazing hot at exactly the right time.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
You've got to have a team that makes pitchers work in that ballpark. You've got to grind out ABs. I think lately we've had a few too many strikeout guys in our lineup.
For whatever reason, we've never played out best baseball in Omaha.
Outside of luck, all you can do is put together the best roster that you can & give it a go.
As far as our rosters, I think we've consistently had what we need on the high end of the roster. We don't really need more top end type players (Although they'd obviously help)
I've always felt we've had a few too many high strikeout guys at the bottom of the lineup & not enough depth to the pitching staff & uniqueness out of the bullpen.
That 1989 team was really good. My friend Jody Hurst was the CF on that team. I was at every game of that regional and still remember how disappointing an end to that season it was. Had already made my plans to be in Omaha and thought we had a dang good chance to win it all and then UNC burst that bubble. Was a long ride home that Sunday night. We won 50 games that year and didn't get to OmahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Jody Hurst made it AAA with the tigers, Pete Young and I'm trying to remember the others but I'm getting old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
ETA Tommy Raffo
1b - Raffo (another great year in 90, minors)Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
2b - Masters (grandslam in 90, might become Pope)
SS - Hildreth (minors)
3b - Young (MLB as pitcher)
OF - Grayum (AAA/AA minors)
OF - Hurst (high level minors with Tigers)
OF - Cohen (better season in 90, minors)
OF - Echols (minors)
C - Winford (minors)
These guys had great backups that got us to Omaha in 90 like Scott Mitchell, David Mitchell, Jim Robinson, and Jon Shave.
We just needed somebody to get super hot down the stretch and it did not happen, at least that's what I remember. I was just one of the 8 year-olds that chased foul balls like they were worth $1M dollars. My primary hunting ground was the right-field line metal bleachers.
85
19
13
I realize I'm older than you guys posting about the "best teams". 89 was the most talented and balanced team IMO. But the 71 team gets no love, LOL. Back in the day the west coast teams dominated college baseball, they played 60 to 70 games a year. The Sec in those days only played 32 games. Also those early 70's teams got robbed by the "Ncaa" by declaring a few of our Juco guys ineligible, it was a terrible rule. Also there were very few teams playing in regional playoffs, like 16 I think.
Oh, no one cared about baseball in the Sec, but I do remember Msu caring I saw crowds in the 9K range a few times which would be like having record numbers in the nation for attendance.
Oh that 71 team was loaded with talent, they would have competing with any team mentioned above. Ok so I'm ole but proud to have been at dear Ole State starting the tradition of the "Leftfield Lounge" Class of 73!
Thanks for posting that! My memory ain't what it used to be. I went and pulled out my program from that 89 regional and relived some memories. That team was really loaded and I just knew we were going to omaha with a shot to win it all. The thing I remember most was when we faced UNC the first time, in the game that put us in the loser bracket. They threw some junk baller at us and we just kept flailing away at breaking ball and changeups. He didn't throw hard and rarely threw us fastballs but we couldn't square him up for nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Yes, the 1989 team was preseason #1 and was the best ever IMO. Take a look at the stats from that team:
54-14, 32-5 at home, SEC: 20-5
778 Hits, 157 2bs, 96 HRs, 549 RBIs - a lot of those are school records.
1B. Tommy Raffo .383, 22, 80 (15 doubles)
2B-SS Jon Shave .357, 1, 26 (143 AB, 9 doubles)
SS Brad Hildreth .340, 6, 55 (19 doubles)
C Barry Winford .337, 4, 50 (18 doubles)
2B-SS Burke Masters .333, 4, 38 (13 doubles)
3B-P Pete Young .319, 11, 65 (27 doubles)
CF Jody Hurst .313, 13, 56 (14 doubles)
RF Tracy Echols .296, 9, 35 (8 doubles)
LF John Cohen .279, 8, 45 (15 doubles)
LF/DH Richie Grayum .276, 12, 58 (9 doubles)
C Jim Robinson .234, 1, 20 (5 doubles)
Pitching
Pete Young 5-1, 1.22 (8 Saves, 47 K, 13 BB, 44 IP) - Closer with gas
Chuck Holly 9-2, 1.76 (2 Saves, 48 K, 19 BB, 66 IP)
Chris George 7-1, 2.51 - (68 K, 38 BB, 82 IP) Sunday starter
Tracy Jobes 9-3, 3.43 (76 K, 50 BB, 110 IP) Saturday starter
Bobby Reed 12-3, 3.72 (54 K, 32 BB, 104 IP) Friday starter
Jon Harden 0-0, 1.23 (14 IP)
No, only one guy made it to the bigs from that lineup, Jon Shave(pete young doesn't count he made it as a pitcher). However, 1-9 it was the best offense we ever had. There were no holes and had depth on the bench that allowed moves during the course of the game. 85 had Clark and Palmeiro, but 6-9 were a green john Mitchell, (who was a tr fr who ended up being a good player) and 3 damn near auto outs. No depth. I agree 16 was a good one and i would put it up their close but not equal to 89, but ahead of 85 for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
This. I went to a lot of games that year and that team could absolutely rake and the pitching was deep and good. Pretty good defensively too. There was almost no where a pitcher could go to get an out against that team, you just couldn't pitch around anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Losing to UNC crushed twelve-year old me. If memory serves, we had the bases loaded in that last game with Pete at the plate. I just knew he was going to hit one to West Point. Took a 3-2 curve for strike three. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
2013, 1985, and 2019 are all in class of their own. You could rank the others however you wanted and not get much resistance. I think the greatest what if teams are 84, 89, and 16. I think all 3 could've won it had they got to Omaha.
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I think 2019 is going to go down as the 2nd best team once you evaluate everything. That team had future pros and the team didn't have a glaring weakness. We had a rare combo of high level talent and senior leadership.
Small
Ginn
Plumlee (he had a GREAT sr year)
Cole
Liebelt Barlow and White
-all time sec hitter
-clutch factor / sr leadership
-soph class
-gap power
-left/right balance
-a catcher that hit like Skelton
-Gilbert at 9 hitting 300 with pop
The 2013 team had some serious talent. But they also had some noticeable weaknesses. I think 2016 was better than 2013.
I don't disagree, but Ginn wasn't close to 100%. Hard to consider him on talent aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by hp22
The 1989 team was the biggest choke/shock. That’s the best team we’ve ever put on the field. I played against some of those guys. Crazy talented.
In the current regional format, we would not have lost to UNC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I can't recall the pitching in the Regional exactly.
Game-1 vs Western Carolina (Reed)
Game-2 vs Nicholls State (Jobes)
Game-3 vs UNC (George) Lost 1-2
Game-4 vs Indiana State (?)
Game-5 vs UNC (Reed) Won 6-0
Game-6 vs UNC (?) Lost 1-7
How many times did UNC throw the junk baller?
When you have the option or have to sit either Jon shave, Burke masters, Ritchie grayum or Tracy Echols you have some serious depth. All those guys were really good players. One had to sit every day. And Jim rob was playing once every 3 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Yeah it was loaded! To this day I still can't believe that team didn't make it to Omaha. Losing that regional is one of those State losses I'll never get over. NightmarishQuote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Based on this pattern, does this mean we will go to the CWS 5 times in the next 20 years? Doesn't seem enough. Double it. Pick up a couple of nattys and we will truly be a baseball elite. Can we do it?
We can absolutely go 10 times over the next 20 years & you'd think that would lead to at least 1 nattyQuote:
Originally Posted by TaleofTwoDogs
Getting to Omaha is tough. Things happen. Look at 84,89 that didn't make it. Yet 90 and 07 did with weaker teams. I do think we have gotten our recruiting to the standard of at least a reasonable shot every year. Sometimes the stars will align better than others. Our staff, starting with John as head coach has done a great job of maximizing our scholarship deficit problem and making the absolute most of it!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleofTwoDogs
A team that didn't make the CWS but was great was the '83 team. They lost out to UTA that featured Calvin Schiraldi (ace) and a guy that we beat Roger Clemons. we only lost one game in the regional but somehow lost the regional?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983...all_TournamentQuote:
Originally Posted by redstickdawg
Looks like MSU lost two games to Texas- the eventual Champs that year
That '83 CWS probably the first I remember paying attention to - Schiraldi, Clemens, Bonds, Sabo, Dave Magadan, and Pete IncavigliaQuote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Just curious, where do you find stats like that? I've had a hard time finding stats for college baseball past the year 2000Quote:
Originally Posted by BHildreth3
I have a hard time viewing the last 20 years as a collective. You kinda have to split it in half. The 2000s were generally not good for us. The 2010s had some train wrecks (2010 and 2015) but a lot more sustained success. With the exception of 2015, we?ve been a really good program for the last 7 years after being mediocre to bad for a decade before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleofTwoDogs