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would he still be on your team after the leg lift?
if matt luke is in the presser livid and pissed at him and something to the effect of he's off the team, dont even get on the bus, etc, is luke still the coach?
I just don't see how a teammate or coach (even a new one) would allow him still on your team?
67 catches 850 yds 6 tds. that seems replaceable to me.
He would be for me.
Would you also kick DK Metcalf off for doing the exact same thing? Or is the end result truly the reason you'd kick Moore off but not DK?
All he did was get an unsportsmanlike penalty. There are numerous selfish acts by players al throughout the year. The only difference with Moore's is what happened afterwards which was out of his control.
So long as he understood his mistake and took accountability for it, he could still be on my time.
The key is realizing that he didn't lose the game for Ole Miss.
It depends. If I am a brand new coach taking over- yes. Because I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that his actions were a team culture issue, which I believe was indeed the case based on how Luke reacted where he didn't apologize to MSU but apologized to Ole Miss fans basically for it happening. Heavily paraphrased.
If Moore then proves to me that it was an issue with him then I would bench him a time or two until he learns to play the game with respect and if he can't do that I would ask him to leave.
If I'm the same coach from the previous year I handle it the same way in the second sentence pretty much.
You know the ironic thing about the Ole Miss coaching search to me was their fans talk about how we fired Joe because they hired Kiffin- however I think their coaching situation was a lot more predicated on what we did. I think their plan was to see if we kept Moorhead or not and then see who we hired and then try to one up whoever we hired the next year if we made a change. So, when it looked like we were keeping Moorhead plus the Egg Bowl loss, and my personal favorite part- International embarrassment I think that clearly all played into their decision.
I think they expected Cohen to act like Stricklin or LT and just keep Moorhead as long as he kept winning the Egg Bowl. The truth was he was on the hot seat pretty much the entire time after Tennessee and even after the Egg Bowl win- hence Cohen's comments about the Music City Bowl being a business trip. Cohen made it VERY clear to Joe that he better not screw it up and Joe did pretty much everything wrong. Personally I thought Joe was probably gone after the Gay/Shrader fight based on how MSU handled Stansbury and Cannizaro after similar incidents. The loss sealed the deal there. So, they hire Kiffin and go about running their mouths as usual and then Cohen goes out and one ups them and hires Leach. Which was pretty funny.
If I was a coach I wouldn't allow that. Penalties hurt and keep you from winning. Totally selfish. And yes, I would say just kicking someone off the team for a one time incident is over the top no question. But as Leach likes to say "I would make them very uncomfortable."Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
About it being out of his control- well, Moore's actions were under his control. And his decision caused them to have to run a lower percentage play and it eliminated any possibility that they could win with a 2 point conversion- and yes, I know Luke said he was going for the tie but most coaches would want that opportunity on the road. He hurt his team big time and he has to live with those consequences for the rest of his career basically.
I see your point. but yes, they both would be off of my team. I just don't think in the long run, the net potential gain is worth it. seeing that last drive again tonight, It seemed like Moore had 3-4 targets and he only caught one and then did that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
But on DK. I sit back and look at his 3 years and they never had a winning season. not even a winning season. .and you think all the effort and catering and constant double standard you set for him for his entire time there. I think that's seen by the other players and ultimately gets you to losing seasons and swings your season a few games in the W/L column. I guess it's a difficult thought b/c DK was on the team where the coaches and admin premediated hurting Fitz pregame with the bounty so of course they overlook it. as an aside, I would love to know how much speaks got $ for that leg break on Fitz. I think that was at least $20K to him. maybe $50K.
I wonder how Leach would handle this? What I didn't know about leach before he became our coach was he seems to be more focused on discipline than I knew of. I just knew of him for his offense.
but moore's situation was different than DK. I would say he lost the game for them.
if reversed and moore was on MSU's team and lost the game like that, would willie gay punched his face in postgame?
anyway
I think players should get the benefit of the doubt and correct their mistakes if it's a one time deal. I think teaching self control is part of it. And in that process sometimes people are going to have failures where they have to learn and unless it's a recurring issue I don't think kicking someone off the team is the answer usually.Quote:
Originally Posted by justwin
Ole Miss has long had that culture- and while 2017 was cute and fun for them I'm sure it's not sustainable as the results point out and what typically happens is what happened in the Egg Bowl this year. IMO the officials did a poor job of controlling the 2017 Egg Bowl as well. I think that factored in some too.
I don't think Leach would have allowed it to happen. Not without some type of punishment.
I have no idea if he would have been punched or not by anyone but I know the MSU family would be totally embarrassed and call him out if it was indeed one of our players that did that. And not to kick the ant hill again- ask Willie Gay about that. One thing I do like about MSU fans is we have a very clear expectation that our teams play with respect and discipline. You can play with energy and emotion like Smoot, Simmons, and etc. as long as the line doesn't get crossed where we get a penalty where it hurts our team.
?????Quote:
Originally Posted by justwin
I remember Mullen stopping most of our team from stomping some teams midfield signature - can't remember if it was a Gator or an Ole Miss ....... point is - we've had our moments as well
Kids don't get kicked off the team for an unsportsmanlike penalty.
I agree, it's great learning "tool" for Kiffin to teach his team and start a new culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
It wasn't a one time deal though. It was premeditated by him. Those actions should have been discussed prior to the game, given DK, the fight, etc. He 17n knew better and still made it about him.
I am still holding that I am on the side with Willie Gay. Sure he shouldn't punch out our starting qb, but I am not sure he was ultimately to blame for that situation. Hope all involved grows up a little.
Agreed, you have to make it a learning/teaching experience with penalties/consequences. A little in house discipline. As my grandfather used to say "Unless there's a little pain involved nobody gets any smarter".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
I missed this conspiracy...
"DK was on the team where the coaches and admin premediated hurting Fitz pregame with the bounty so of course they overlook it. as an aside, I would love to know how much speaks got $ for that leg break on Fitz. I think that was at least $20K to him. maybe $50K."
for real???....
Hey man, hope you're doing well! How's things in the bunker?Quote:
Originally Posted by TUSK
I don't like the one strike your out rule anywhere. We all make mistakes but our decisions have consequences so maybe he is suspended a game or something. Keep on team after first offense for sure.
There are kids who get arrested who don't miss games. No way I'm suspending a kid for an unsportsmanlike penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Thanks for asking!!!! I've been riding around tearing up shit with an excavator.... Otherwise, My life has changed not one iota...Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQNkIrg-Tk
I shouldn't have said suspended. I said or something. The point of my post was we all make mistakes but there is a consequence. Maybe he runs bleachers on Sunday or cleans everyone's locker the next week. Point is you don't kick off team after one mistake but he has to understand what he did was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
Oh yea that's understandable but asking should a kid be kicked off a team for an unsportsmanlike penalty is crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Or both OM and State would have kicked off their entire teams in the middle of the 2018 Egg Bowl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
Glad you're doing well! You got it made up there man! Stay safe!Quote:
Originally Posted by TUSK