It's time to readjust unrealistic expectations for our Baseball team

Fact is, we lost a TON from last year:

With Ginn now out, that means we lost our Friday, Saturday, and Sunday starters. Woth Smith injured that means we lost 1 of the 2 really promising Fr arms we saw last year. No Barlow, Leibelt, Gordon, or White, and something is clearly up with Eagan. we have ZERO of our SEC bullpen guys from last year.

We returned nothing off last years staff. Self and Price are it, and we need them to take a big step forward to be anywhere close to the guys we lost.

On O, yeah we should be better than we are but as far as proven SEC level hitters we have Westy, Foscue, Rowdy, and Allen. Hatcher, Jordan, the catcher who's name escapes me, Cumbest... those guys all showed they can be SEC level dudes but none of them were there last year. And let's not forget Rowdy, Westy, and Allen have all had their fair share of slumps so it's not like they're super reliable week to week.

We also lost all the leaders on the team.

Fact is, hosting a regional would be a really big success for us. We wont compete for the SEC championship, and I dont see a national seed being a possibility.

Next year we should be loaded, but this year is a rebuilding year

I'd hold off on some of that. Way too early for giving up that much. I agree, too many people bought into too much, but we're still a good team. Just played poorly.

Completely agree. We just don't have the pitching and the bottom end of the order isn't good. You take that along with what we lost in Mangum defensively and we're 30-33 win team and maybe .500 in the league play. The loss of Brandon Smith and now Ginn cannot be understated. I just don't see a SR in our future this year unless we do what the 2018 team did and catch lightning in a bottle.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

I'd hold off on some of that. Way too early for giving up that much. I agree, too many people bought into too much, but we're still a good team. Just played poorly.

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Hosting a regional means we are a "good" team though, and theres no shame in being a top 2 seed either.

I just dont think we can be an elite team, which to me means competing for a national seed

damn, you boys need to have a cool one and calm down.. How about let's play another week or 2 before the panic sets in.

Half of you need to join the French Army. You will fit right in.

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Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

Fact is, we lost a TON from last year:

With Ginn now out, that means we lost our Friday, Saturday, and Sunday starters. Woth Smith injured that means we lost 1 of the 2 really promising Fr arms we saw last year. No Barlow, Leibelt, Gordon, or White, and something is clearly up with Eagan. we have ZERO of our SEC bullpen guys from last year.

We returned nothing off last years staff. Self and Price are it, and we need them to take a big step forward to be anywhere close to the guys we lost.

On O, yeah we should be better than we are but as far as proven SEC level hitters we have Westy, Foscue, Rowdy, and Allen. Hatcher, Jordan, the catcher who's name escapes me, Cumbest... those guys all showed they can be SEC level dudes but none of them were there last year. And let's not forget Rowdy, Westy, and Allen have all had their fair share of slumps so it's not like they're super reliable week to week.

We also lost all the leaders on the team.

Fact is, hosting a regional would be a really big success for us. We wont compete for the SEC championship, and I dont see a national seed being a possibility.

Next year we should be loaded, but this year is a rebuilding year

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Next year should be loaded? Maybe on the mound, don't know. But we will lose Westburg, foscue, Allen for sure.... losing Ginn is a killer, along w Brandon Smith. Our offense will pick up. But, at this point, we have one legit starter and he's a fr. Cerrantola is going to have just as many downs as he has ups.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Next year should be loaded? Maybe on the mound, don't know. But we will lose Westburg, foscue, Allen for sure.... losing Ginn is a killer, along w Brandon Smith. Our offense will pick up. But, at this point, we have one legit starter and he's a fr. Cerrantola is going to have just as many downs as he has ups.

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Yeah you're right about the O not being loaded, but I don't know what to make of it either way. Will Allen go pro for sure? Who will take a step forward? Can we add a Nate Lowe impact JuCo guy? I dont even know what to make of the Fr we have now.

On the mound we will have one of the best staffs in the country: Mcleoud is a Fr guy already and hell have another year to hone his craft. Cerantola will have 70+ innings more work and another offseason to get it together, he absolutely could be the next Dakota Hudson. Ginn will almost certainly come back for another year, even not 100% that's a really good Sunday guy. Our best 2 bullpen arms (Sims and Bednar) will be back, and you gotta imagine we add another 1-2 arms of that level between JuCo and Fr. Then Smith will be healthy, hell he has the potential to be a great Sunday guy as Ginn makes his way back or an elite bullpen guy.

But you're right, we have no idea what to make of the O yet

Sims has looked the best. I am not sure he has even given up contact yet.

I wouldn't count on Smith being healthy. Yeah, that's a year away but it takes some guys more than a year to recuperate from TJ surgery and a very large percentage of them are just never the same (see Spencer Price).

Had we won last night 12-1, would we even be having this discussion?

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Originally Posted by PKADogs55

Had we won last night 12-1, would we even be having this discussion?

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No. Last night was simply a wake up call. We'll be fine. Hopefully lesson learned by all. Probably killed our hosting chances but again respect the game and you don't have to win 20 SEC games to reach your goals.

I still think we'll have a good season but as I said in the preseason I don't see us going to Omaha because of the pitching. I still think we make a SR though but we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Next year should be loaded? Maybe on the mound, don't know. But we will lose Westburg, foscue, Allen for sure.... losing Ginn is a killer, along w Brandon Smith. Our offense will pick up. But, at this point, we have one legit starter and he's a fr. Cerrantola is going to have just as many downs as he has ups.

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I was thinking the same thing when I read it. People expecting our juniors to be back next year are going to be disappointed. If one of them comes back I'll consider us fortunate. That's maybe optimistic.

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Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

Yeah you're right about the O not being loaded, but I don't know what to make of it either way. Will Allen go pro for sure? Who will take a step forward? Can we add a Nate Lowe impact JuCo guy? I dont even know what to make of the Fr we have now.

On the mound we will have one of the best staffs in the country: Mcleoud is a Fr guy already and hell have another year to hone his craft. Cerantola will have 70+ innings more work and another offseason to get it together, he absolutely could be the next Dakota Hudson. Ginn will almost certainly come back for another year, even not 100% that's a really good Sunday guy. Our best 2 bullpen arms (Sims and Bednar) will be back, and you gotta imagine we add another 1-2 arms of that level between JuCo and Fr. Then Smith will be healthy, hell he has the potential to be a great Sunday guy as Ginn makes his way back or an elite bullpen guy.

But you're right, we have no idea what to make of the O yet

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Rule number one of junior college hitters- never expect them to make an impact. If they do great. But Nate Lowe is the anomaly. And we still recruit too many of them.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

No. Last night was simply a wake up call. We'll be fine. Hopefully lesson learned by all. Probably killed our hosting chances but again respect the game and you don't have to win 20 SEC games to reach your goals.

I still think we'll have a good season but as I said in the preseason I don't see us going to Omaha because of the pitching. I still think we make a SR though but we'll see.

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It was a horrendous loss but in no way will it ?kill our hosting chances?. It very well could be a wake up call that we aren?t as good as we thought; that will play out in the coming weeks. But if we continue to take care of weekend business, this loss will fade into the back.

Now, could it hurt our National Seed hosting possibilities if we are a borderline 8 or 9, that is another thing.....

The key offensively if how well the newcomers to the lineup adjust. Pitching could be an adventure. I’m nervous about it all but it is still early so we will see.

One thing to keep in mind is, we have seen a lot of erratic pitching from the opponents. OSU had good arms that were somewhat wild. Hard to hit that type. The pitchers last night were lobbing the ball.

Hopefully this is a case of getting the bad baseball out of our system early and playing hot late. Pitching is still going to be an issue though.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Rule number one of junior college hitters- never expect them to make an impact. If they do great. But Nate Lowe is the anomaly. And we still recruit too many of them.

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I remember Pirtle starting very slow out of the gate coming from JUCO, Macname too. I could see Pimentel catching up eventually like those guys did, though hopefully he does it at Pirtle's pace and doesn't take as long as Mac.

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Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg

I remember Pirtle starting very slow out of the gate coming from JUCO, Macname too. I could see Pimentel catching up eventually like those guys did, though hopefully he does it at Pirtle's pace and doesn't take as long as Mac.

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Yes Pimentel will adjust and be a good player but as far as being immediate impact no. Even Lowe struggled some. MacNamee big time struggled at first too.

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Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

Fact is, we lost a TON from last year:

With Ginn now out, that means we lost our Friday, Saturday, and Sunday starters. Woth Smith injured that means we lost 1 of the 2 really promising Fr arms we saw last year. No Barlow, Leibelt, Gordon, or White, and something is clearly up with Eagan. we have ZERO of our SEC bullpen guys from last year.

We returned nothing off last years staff. Self and Price are it, and we need them to take a big step forward to be anywhere close to the guys we lost.

On O, yeah we should be better than we are but as far as proven SEC level hitters we have Westy, Foscue, Rowdy, and Allen. Hatcher, Jordan, the catcher who's name escapes me, Cumbest... those guys all showed they can be SEC level dudes but none of them were there last year. And let's not forget Rowdy, Westy, and Allen have all had their fair share of slumps so it's not like they're super reliable week to week.

We also lost all the leaders on the team.

Fact is, hosting a regional would be a really big success for us. We wont compete for the SEC championship, and I dont see a national seed being a possibility.

Next year we should be loaded, but this year is a rebuilding year

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That might be a little pessimistic, depending on what you are calling rebuilding. The reasonable expectations definitely have changed from when we thought Ginn and Smith would pitch for us. We will probably have some pitchers step up and be better because of the opportunity that will lessen some of the blow. If we end up hosting as a non-national seed (not what I would necessarily bet on but I don't think it would be insane for that to happen), I don't think we can classify that as a rebuilding year. If we end up as a 2 seed, which I think is still very doable depending on which young arms step up, I'm not sure we've elevated the program to where we can call that a rebuilding year.

Damn. Some of y?all need to chill out. It?s Feb 26... Kill our hosting chances? Are you kidding? It?s one bad loss... Go back and look at how many REALLY BAD midweek losses LSU has over the last few yrs and see if they hosted.

It?s as simple as this... We will either come out today and make a statement, or it will be more of last night. That will tell us what kind of team we have mentally.

I know a couple juniors who chewed some ass last night after the game. I also know a couple who sat around and pouted about it.


We will see shortly...

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Originally Posted by PKADogs55

Had we won last night 12-1, would we even be having this discussion?

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No

This is the type of team that will take their lumps at the start of the year while we figure out our pitching and because we have a tough SEC schedule to start off. But by midway point I think we hit our stride. We have a really good 1-9.

I dont think there is a single lineup in the country that has good hitters 1-9. We dont either we just need the ones that arent good right now to realize it and work counts and compete not try to hit everything to the lofts

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Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg

I remember Pirtle starting very slow out of the gate coming from JUCO, Macname too. I could see Pimentel catching up eventually like those guys did, though hopefully he does it at Pirtle's pace and doesn't take as long as Mac.

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You can live with a guy in your lineup catching up hitting .220 but things will have to improve quickly because you can't keep a guy in your lineup long hitting .120.

<yawn> we gonna be aight. No worries.

I like a bad loss early in the year. Pisses everyone off and gets them focused.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

Half of you need to join the French Army. You will fit right in.

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What would the Wake Island Marines say?

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Originally Posted by parabrave

What would the Wake Island Marines say?

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I would imagine that if the marines got their ass kicked by France they would probably regroup.

Baseball isn't war though.

Co'mon man. This is typical MSU baseball.

(1) Ginn - Huge Loss. He was like a $20 bill in our pocket, that we never should have had. He needs to get healthy and come back when he's ready.
(2) Smith - Huge Loss. The kid was good and would have been Saturday. Probably.
(3) Barlow was not that good. Leibelt was a total surprise. Gordon was a first-baseman. White was barely used. Eagan barely pitched 5 SEC innings in 2019
(4) Self and Price are actually more experienced and more accomplished than anybody but Gordon coming into last year.
(5) The big thing that a long term college baseball fan has to accept is that coaches have to find and test how to use each pitcher. Some guys can only face 3 batters, some 1 batter, some clean innings, and some cannot do SEC work.
(6) Freshmen pitchers have got to be given playing time to find their capabilities. KC Hunt will have better games.
(7) Westburg is currently hitting 400; Westburg, Foscue, Allen, and Rowdy are 4 players any team in the nation would want
(8) Hatcher is very experienced and will be right.

As far as national seed, that's always hard. Really hard when you don't have a All American or two in the SEC Rotation.

Next year, will have new problems. Lots of pitching but we lose 5 big hitters (Westy, Foscue, Allen, Rowdy, and Hatcher). But, that's baseball.

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

Co'mon man. This is typical MSU baseball.

(1) Ginn - Huge Loss. He was like a $20 bill in our pocket, that we never should have had. He needs to get healthy and come back when he's ready.
(2) Smith - Huge Loss. The kid was good and would have been Saturday. Probably.
(3) Barlow was not that good. Leibelt was a total surprise. Gordon was a first-baseman. White was barely used. Eagan barely pitched 5 SEC innings in 2019
(4) Self and Price are actually more experienced and more accomplished than anybody but Gordon coming into last year.
(5) The big thing that a long term college baseball fan has to accept is that coaches have to find and test how to use each pitcher. Some guys can only face 3 batters, some 1 batter, some clean innings, and some cannot do SEC work.
(6) Freshmen pitchers have got to be given playing time to find their capabilities. KC Hunt will have better games.
(7) Westburg is currently hitting 400; Westburg, Foscue, Allen, and Rowdy are 4 players any team in the nation would want
(8) Hatcher is very experienced and will be right.

As far as national seed, that's always hard. Really hard when you don't have a All American or two in the SEC Rotation.

Next year, will have new problems. Lots of pitching but we lose 5 big hitters (Westy, Foscue, Allen, Rowdy, and Hatcher). But, that's baseball.

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Also I think Pimentel will adjust at some point later in the year. Hancock has been banged up some and he's a good player as well.

The best thing about these past few year of state baseball.....it has trained my mind not to freakbout. I understand this is mostly a different group......but State baseball has had enough magic, comebacks, over coming odds lately that it has just trained my mind. Like muscle memory.

This season may end up being disappointing, but I'm not letting a possibility of what might happen, cause me stress in February.

We went to a super regional at Baton Rouge three years ago with half of our staff out with Tommy John. This staff is deeper....even with the injuries to Ginn/Smith.

We have 2 years of data regarding the offensive production on guys like Rowdey, Foscue, Westy, Hatcher, TA...And have enough to know about a few others like Hancock and L Jordan. Point being, I think that group will score runs.

Baseball is a long season. Let the numbers play out. Our margin for error has taken a hit losing guys like Smith and Ginn. But we are still a very talented baseball team and have series wins against two good baseball programs. And it is only February.

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Originally Posted by parabrave

What would the Wake Island Marines say?

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They would say to send them more japs

We are Miss State Baseball

Super Regional Appearance is the expectation. Anything less than that is a failure.

Something to keep in mind and Todd has touched on it a few times, we have been relying on quite a few juco pitchers the last few years. I think this means that we are having to fill holes. Those holes may be attributable to 4 coaches in 4 years basically.

Young players and newcomers mixed with some injuries and i could see it ending up being a somewhat disappointing season. We just need to avoid a disaster and keep the attention of the top recruits.

What does our class next yr look like? Besides Jordan and Hendricks...