Some of you need to think big picture.

The man thought his plan would work - it was obvious it wouldn?t work last year - he had an offseason to adjust and he didnt - he didnt realize our S&C was going downhill either. He didn?t realize he was being too soft. We have a coach that lacks discernment when it comes to the game. You can?t fix that with assistant changes. We can not continue to let him learn on the job and pay him 3 million. Especially when he is the last guy in the room to figure it out.

Listen closely. Football is a game that is won by staying one step ahead and we have a leader that is constantly 2 steps behind.

Egg Bowl - some of you are so worried about losing that game that you can?t see the big picture. Some of us on here are focused ahead - honestly this season is dead and over for me. It was part of a two year mistake that I hope we end on Friday.

Joe has wrecked our program. His whole world about what he thought he knew about football is being torn down. He is in crisis mode. Huge mistake to hire a guy never been in SEC and think he knows what will work or worse only has one thing/way he knows how to coach. Like betting the house on a game in Vegas that you have never played.

Any fan pulling against us this week is worthless. I believe we?re going to lose, but I?m damn sure not pulling for us to lose. That?s not big picture. That?s worthless ass fans.
Change is coming anyway.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

The man thought his plan would work - it was obvious it wouldn?t work last year - he had an offseason to adjust and he didnt - he didnt realize our S&C was going downhill either. He didn?t realize he was being too soft. We have a coach that lacks discernment when it comes to the game. You can?t fix that with assistant changes. We can not continue to let him learn on the job and pay him 3 million. Especially when he is the last guy in the room to figure it out.

Listen closely. Football is a game that is won by staying one step ahead and we have a leader that is constantly 2 steps behind.

Egg Bowl - some of you are so worried about losing that game that you can?t see the big picture. Some of us on here are focused ahead - honestly this season is dead and over for me. It was part of a two year mistake that I hope we end on Friday.

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Great post. Thank you

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Any fan pulling against us this week is worthless. I believe we?re going to lose, but I?m damn sure not pulling for us to lose. That?s not big picture. That?s worthless ass fans.
Change is coming anyway.

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Best case scenario is that we win & fire him anyway.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Joe has wrecked our program. His whole world about what he thought he knew about football is being torn down. He is in crisis mode. Huge mistake to hire a guy never been in SEC and think he knows what will work or worse only has one thing/way he knows how to coach. Like betting the house on a game in Vegas that you have never played.

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I don't mind him not working in the SEC. That's not a pre-requisite to me.

Hiring a coach who's core beliefs revolve around physicality, discipline, weight room, & deserving to win matters much more to me. You don't have to coach in the SEC to have those basic core philosophies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Any fan pulling against us this week is worthless. I believe we?re going to lose, but I?m damn sure not pulling for us to lose. That?s not big picture. That?s worthless ass fans.
Change is coming anyway.

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I believe a change is coming either way too, but I think it will be a year later with a win. Moorhead is dragging us down at a pretty steady clip... what would we look like after 3 seasons, ark?

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I don't mind him not working in the SEC. That's not a pre-requisite to me.

Hiring a coach who's core beliefs revolve around physicality, discipline, weight room, & deserving to win matters much more to me. You don't have to coach in the SEC to have those basic core philosophies.

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Not a core belief of mine either but we can't have a guy that it takes 2 years to figure out the SEC and I'm not sure he has it figured out yet. Our #1 D in nation his first year should have taught him something about SEC Ds but it didn't teach him anything.

Any alum who wants MSU to lose to OM, for any reason, needs to evaluate their loyalty to our school. I don't think we will win, based upon the current circumstances, but I'm sure not going to hope we ever lose to OM, in any sport and for looking at the big picture or whatever reason. I also want a coaching change ASAP too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

The man thought his plan would work - it was obvious it wouldn?t work last year - he had an offseason to adjust and he didnt - he didnt realize our S&C was going downhill either. He didn?t realize he was being too soft. We have a coach that lacks discernment when it comes to the game. You can?t fix that with assistant changes. We can not continue to let him learn on the job and pay him 3 million. Especially when he is the last guy in the room to figure it out.

Listen closely. Football is a game that is won by staying one step ahead and we have a leader that is constantly 2 steps behind.

Egg Bowl - some of you are so worried about losing that game that you can?t see the big picture. Some of us on here are focused ahead - honestly this season is dead and over for me. It was part of a two year mistake that I hope we end on Friday.

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A coach in this league has to have an edge to be successful. One more game of this shit show, it's almost over, folks!

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Joe has wrecked our program. His whole world about what he thought he knew about football is being torn down. He is in crisis mode. Huge mistake to hire a guy never been in SEC and think he knows what will work or worse only has one thing/way he knows how to coach. Like betting the house on a game in Vegas that you have never played.

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How has he wrecked the program when he has brought in better talent? I agree we don?t have the elite talent required to run his west coast hybrid offense but he has brought in good talent that will help the next coach.

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Originally Posted by JohnHenryBonham

How has he wrecked the program when he has brought in better talent? I agree we don?t have the elite talent required to run his west coast hybrid offense but he has brought in good talent that will help the next coach.

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He wrecked the culture, not the talent. If he stays another year, I could see a situation developing like the one that ended the Stansbury era. Players fighting.

I don't want to lose to mississippi in anything, I'd pay to see us beat them in checkers.

I’m not saying to pull for Ole Miss. I’m saying that we shouldnt keep a bad coach based on winning that game.

Historically it seems like coaches on hot seats never get better at their current gigs. Sometimes after they're fired they work their way back up thru the coordinator ranks and land a HC job again. That "extra year " seems to never go well. I may be wrong, don't have any stats to back up my assertions. Just going on gut instinct.

It's tough because in forward thinking minds, winning the battle this week will be losing the war.

Some are viewing it as if we beat OM this week that would cause us to lose to OM next year and possibly the year after. Weight that against a loss this year probably ensures a win next year as long as we don't hire a pile of shit again and then could set us ahead of them for years if we hire good as they are going to be treading the water they're at with Luke for a while.

That's where it's tricky. I think the best thing for every State fan to do is root for a win Thursday and a firing Friday. But then rest easy with a loss because we will fire this guy now that we lost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Any fan pulling against us this week is worthless. I believe we?re going to lose, but I?m damn sure not pulling for us to lose. That?s not big picture. That?s worthless ass fans.
Change is coming anyway.

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I simply don't believe the narrative that we're firing Joe even if we go 6-6.

NO coach has EVER been fired in year 2 after making a bowl. But I'm supposed to believe our AD and relatively poor boosters will do what no USC, Bama, OSU, or Michigan ever has?

My guess is that some boosters do want joe gone even at 6-6, they're making a lot of noise in the AD's office, and they're the "sources" everyone talks about. BUT, I have zero faith our boosters as a whole have higher standards of what's acceptable than any other set of boosters in history.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dantheman4248

It's tough because in forward thinking minds, winning the battle this week will be losing the war.

Some are viewing it as if we beat OM this week that would cause us to lose to OM next year and possibly the year after. Weight that against a loss this year probably ensures a win next year as long as we don't hire a pile of shit again and then could set us ahead of them for years if we hire good as they are going to be treading the water they're at with Luke for a while.

That's where it's tricky. I think the best thing for every State fan to do is root for a win Thursday and a firing Friday. But then rest easy with a loss because we will fire this guy now that we lost.

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Exactly, that's where I'm at. Not only would a new coach = more total wins, I believe a new coach will = more wins vs OM specifically too.

Joe wins this year and stays, the program deteriorates even more as OM gets better (lot of young talent on O) and we lose next year. Then the new coach has an even bigger hole to dig out of in '21 as Plumlee and Ealy and Mingo are 3rd year starting Jrs and we probably lose that one too. Lose Thursday, make a decent hire, and we win the next 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

I simply don't believe the narrative that we're firing Joe even if we go 6-6.

NO coach has EVER been fired in year 2 after making a bowl. But I'm supposed to believe our AD and relatively poor boosters will do what no USC, Bama, OSU, or Michigan ever has?

My guess is that some boosters do want joe gone even at 6-6, they're making a lot of noise in the AD's office, and they're the "sources" everyone talks about. BUT, I have zero faith our boosters as a whole have higher standards of what's acceptable than any other set of boosters in history.

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"It's not about wins and losses." That's what we've heard from the company men over the last week. Did Joe strike you as a man fighting for his job yesterday in his press conference? Joe is moving on. It has mentioned by people that know him in the sports media that he is not happy at MSU. He has been completely overwhelmed by the SEC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

I’m not saying to pull for Ole Miss. I’m saying that we shouldnt keep a bad coach based on winning that game.

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You sure fooled me then, but I agree with not keeping a coach based upon one game. ----------"Egg Bowl - some of you are so worried about losing that game that you can?t see the big picture. Some of us on here are focused ahead."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

Any alum who wants MSU to lose to OM, for any reason, needs to evaluate their loyalty to our school. I don't think we will win, based upon the current circumstances, but I'm sure not going to hope we ever lose to OM, in any sport and for looking at the big picture or whatever reason. I also want a coaching change ASAP too.

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How many loses overall is a win vs OM worth? Hypothetical: We can go 1-11 with a win over OM, OR 14-1 with a loss to OM, but we win the SEC and the national championships. Which do you pick? I'd argue anyone who picks 1-11 isn't a State fan at all, just an OM hater.

But, lets say it's 6-6 with a win over OM vs 7-5 with a loss to them. I'd probably pick the 6-6 myself because beating them is worth 2 wins, not 1.

Now let's ask this hypothetical: If Joe starts, what will our record be next year? What will it be in '21 with a new coach who has to dig out of the even bigger hole we'll be in after year 3 of Joe vs 2? Now, what would the record over the next 2 years be with say, Norvell coaching both? It's probably 4 wins of difference. AND, with a new coach now, we'll be more likely to win the Egg next year and in '21 too.

Would you rather beat OM this year and probably lose the next 2 EB's and 4 more overall games? I wouldn't. Call me a OM fan if you want, but I believe losing to OM and getting a new coach will lead to more total wins vs OM alone than if we pull Thursday out AND it will be better for the program overall

Getting a new coach will do more good for our program than OM winning the Egg Thursday will do for theirs. For that reason, even if you're motivated by 50% State fan and 50% OM hater, you should want us to lose

Winning the egg will put extra effort on the firing process. Ole miss did it with cutcliffe and they took a lotta damage resulting in a disastrous hire. I think our situation is bettern now than their's was though. But I don't think we'll hafta cross that road.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

How many loses overall is a win vs OM worth? Hypothetical: We can go 1-11 with a win over OM, OR 14-1 with a loss to OM, but we win the SEC and the national championships. Which do you pick? I'd argue anyone who picks 1-11 isn't a State fan at all, just an OM hater.

But, lets say it's 6-6 with a win over OM vs 7-5 with a loss to them. I'd probably pick the 6-6 myself because beating them is worth 2 wins, not 1.

Now let's ask this hypothetical: If Joe starts, what will our record be next year? What will it be in '21 with a new coach who has to dig out of the even bigger hole we'll be in after year 3 of Joe vs 2? Now, what would the record over the next 2 years be with say, Norvell coaching both? It's probably 4 wins of difference. AND, with a new coach now, we'll be more likely to win the Egg next year and in '21 too.

Would you rather beat OM this year and probably lose the next 2 EB's and 4 more overall games? I wouldn't. Call me a OM fan if you want, but I believe losing to OM and getting a new coach will lead to more total wins vs OM alone than if we pull Thursday out AND it will be better for the program overall

Getting a new coach will do more good for our program than OM winning the Egg Thursday will do for theirs. For that reason, even if you're motivated by 50% State fan and 50% OM hater, you should want us to lose

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I can't stand OM and especially their football program. In just the last several years, I decided to pull for them to win against another team if it would benefit us. Prior to that I just wanted them to lose period, and that was against any team in any sport. You think what you want, but I'm looking at the current situation for right now and that is to beat OM if we possibly can. The other long term situation should work itself out for the betterment of our football program going forward.

If we beat Ole Miss Joe will definitely be here next year. If he then goes 6-6 he?s here again, and again and again and again.

Change has to be forced. Counting on ADs to ?do the right thing? is naive at best.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

If we beat Ole Miss Joe will definitely be here next year. If he then goes 6-6 he?s here again, and again and again and again.

Change has to be forced. Counting on ADs to ?do the right thing? is naive at best.

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That's not a definite but more like a possibility. However, possibilities don't always become a reality.

I?d like to not take that chance.

If we win and keep him, at least it will be a good lesson for our fans on ?the greater good?. Maybe it will help them the next time this happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

You sure fooled me then, but I agree with not keeping a coach based upon one game. ----------"Egg Bowl - some of you are so worried about losing that game that you can?t see the big picture. Some of us on here are focused ahead."

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Some believe he?s worth keeping if we win that game. But my mind is made up and I?m already set on the future regardless of what happens. Understand that now?

Dan the man is right. Pull for a win and hope he leaves. Based on Joe’s body language I imagine he probably wants to leave anyway and Rutgers is still open along with a couple of other jobs potentially.

So I’d say the odds of him leaving are really high win or lose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

I?d like to not take that chance.

If we win and keep him, at least it will be a good lesson for our fans on ?the greater good?. Maybe it will help them the next time this happens.

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Yeah. Because they learned that with Jackie in 2003 and Dan in 2015.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Yeah. Because they learned that with Jackie in 2003 and Dan in 2015.

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What you mean by Dan in 2015. He went 9-4 that year. Maybe you meant 2016 but he then was one broken ankle away from 9-3 and with bowl win 10-3 (but he'd be gone by then).

I?m starting to think the smoke was right one Moorhead to Rutgers earlier this year but they used Sciano as a decoy to take all the attention off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trojandawg

I?m starting to think the smoke was right one Moorhead to Rutgers earlier this year but they used Sciano as a decoy to take all the attention off.

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Naw, they are having power struggle over control with the AD and what Schiano wants and with the board to approve the negotiations. It’s dragging on but it has nothing to do with Moorehead or any other coach

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Naw, they are having power struggle over control with the AD and what Schiano wants and with the board to approve the negotiations. It’s dragging on but it has nothing to do with Moorehead or any other coach

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Doesn?t look like it?s Schiano

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trojandawg

Doesn?t look like it?s Schiano

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Looks that way and been trending as such the last 4-5 days but it had nothing to do with a smokescreen for another coach. Power struggle over control of the program. The AD didn’t have Schiano as his first choice to begin with

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Any fan pulling against us this week is worthless. I believe we?re going to lose, but I?m damn sure not pulling for us to lose. That?s not big picture. That?s worthless ass fans.
Change is coming anyway.

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Right on, Cooter!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

The man thought his plan would work - it was obvious it wouldn?t work last year - he had an offseason to adjust and he didnt - he didnt realize our S&C was going downhill either. He didn?t realize he was being too soft. We have a coach that lacks discernment when it comes to the game. You can?t fix that with assistant changes. We can not continue to let him learn on the job and pay him 3 million. Especially when he is the last guy in the room to figure it out.

Listen closely. Football is a game that is won by staying one step ahead and we have a leader that is constantly 2 steps behind.

Egg Bowl - some of you are so worried about losing that game that you can?t see the big picture. Some of us on here are focused ahead - honestly this season is dead and over for me. It was part of a two year mistake that I hope we end on Friday.

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He didn't know how you can adjust to stop KYs DE last year. It was insane not to block that dude. Or atleast put a te over there to chip him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Any fan pulling against us this week is worthless. I believe we?re going to lose, but I?m damn sure not pulling for us to lose. That?s not big picture. That?s worthless ass fans.
Change is coming anyway.

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I'm not pulling for us to lose either, but I think there is a good possibility we will. Maybe a good win will convince Rutgers Joe's the man for their job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

What you mean by Dan in 2015. He went 9-4 that year. Maybe you meant 2016 but he then was one broken ankle away from 9-3 and with bowl win 10-3 (but he'd be gone by then).

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I mean our AD should have called Dan's bluff and forced him to leave after he totally checked out of the Egg Bowl that year. The result after that was a loss to South Alabama and another checked out Egg Bowl plus two-three half assed recruiting classes that we are having to deal with now.

Fans wanting to lose to Ole Miss baffles me. If your program is centered around 1 game, your program is screwed anyways regardless of the coach. It's was screwed before Moorhead, Mullen etc etc. I want to beat Ole Miss by 100.