If they do this then Wren is a moron
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If they do this then Wren is a moron
I think wren is trading Simmons for brandon and moving uggla to ss**
Agreed. If the contracts were equal then it would make sense, maybe a change of scenery helps them both. But Phillips and Uggla will probably be about equal going forward, edge to Phillips, but Phillips has twice as much owed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
Phillips is the most over rated player in the game.
Amen. He strikes out way too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
I don't think it would be the worst move, though I don't think it would help us a ton.
It all depends on what you think they'll be going forward. Phillips is still a productive player. He may be overrated, but that doesn't matter; he is infinitely better defensively and will probably be the better offensive player going forward as well. Uggla has completely lost it and isn't getting it back.
So the question is, do you just ride Uggla out for 2 years, or do you try to get something more productive even though it ties you down for 2 more years?
Again, I'm not necessarily hoping it happens, but I don't think it would be a terrible move if it did.
His K-rate has been below 15 the last 5 years, though it is starting to climb. Uggla's was 31 last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Phillips is better than Uggla- there's no doubt about that. But Phillips struck out 3 more times than he walked and his WAR per Baseball-Reference was 1.5. He's an upgrade- but an expensive and old upgrade and won't be worth it in the long run.
Ugglas BB% is nearly 3x Phillips'Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Oh no, I realize that. Obviously he doesn't walk much...but the difference in BA is more than making up for that right now; and like I said, Uggla is declining at an unbelievable pace. Uggla's isoOBP continues to be great, but that doesn't matter much when you can't hit .180.
And I don't see him bouncing back. I think Phillips still has a chance to get himself back to at least about a .280 hitter. I would be blown away if Uggla ever again hits above .210.
Why not release Uggla, go with Elliot Johnson for a year and then go with Tommy LaStella from the minor leagues? Heck, I'd give LaStella a long look in spring training even though I doubt he will be ready until September.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
If I were you, I would be worried about Philips coming home to collect a check and end his career. He seems like the kind of player that would do that to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Because we would still have to pay Uggla, and Brandon Phillips is a far better option than Elliott Johnson...and I'm still not sure what La Stella will be at the major league level.
So the question is, do you want to pay $26 million for the next 2 years for Elliott Johnson/Tommy La Stella, or do you want to pay $50 million for 4 years of Brandon Phillips.
I'm not saying that's a no-brainer that you go with Phillips, just that I don't think it's a no-brainer that you don't.
Having to pay for Uggla sucks for you- whether you release him or not. There is no way around that contract other than to get someone to take it off of your hands- and good luck with that.
I'd still go the LaStella route- even if he doesn't pan out, second basemen are not that hard to find on the free agent market. I've seen LaStella play and I think he will be a solid MLB player- plus he hit .343 in AA baseball.
Pastornicky and Pena are options also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Well shoot- that makes it even less of a no-brainer. Figure out which one of the four can do the job and move forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I know we have to pay Uggla either way; that's my point. Sure, we could release him and try one of the options we have. Or we could trade him for Phillips and have to pay basically the same amount for those 2 years. The difference is, Phillips is a much better option for the next 2 than guys like Pena/Pastornicky/Johnson, but you then have to pay for 2 more years.
So I realize they both are valid options, and neither one is great. But we are where we are, and I just don't think Wren would be a 'moron' for bringing in Phillips.
I'm big on Pastornicky. His D isn't a liability at 2B and he's insanely fast. He could potentially be the prototypical leadoff hitter the Braves don't have right now. And if he struggles, Ramiro Pena isn't a bad backup policy. Plus, as you mentioned, we have LaStella who isn't that far away from the big club. He's going to get a shot in the spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Regardless, I don't expect Uggla to be back. I was reading an article by the AJC's Braves beat writer and he said he fully expects Uggla to be moved this offseason. He thinks we'll have to eat $16-20M to make it happen, but that we're willing to do that. And Wren hinted at it in the end-of-season interview he did with the AJC. Of course, he also thinks BJ Upton will bounce back after the giant dump he took on the field last season. But that's an entirely different discussion. So long as we deal Uggla and offer Mac to get the compensatory pick, I'm good with whatever we do.
Phillips was a league average second baseman this past year. He's 32. Paying him that money over the next 4 would be moronic. You can spend that money much better elsewhere.
Again, though, we're already paying that money over the next two. So we can't 'spend that money elsewhere' for the next two years. Yes, the downside is that you add an extra 2 years on to the back end of it, but the trade-off is you get a much better option than Dan Uggla or any of our other 2B options for the next two years. I will take league-average at 2B right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
I'd rather focus our money on signing freeman, Heyward, minor, Teheran, and Simmons long term.
I'd hold off on a long term deal for J-Hey. His career numbers almost exactly mirror that of Francouer's through each of their first 4 seasons. I think he's better than French, but it doesn't mean I'd throw tons of cash at him just yet, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Heyward walks twice as often as Frenchy. They are in no way shape or form similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
La Stella currently leads the Arizona Fall League in hitting. I would slot him for AAA for two months, and then evaluate him and Uggla. Though if you can get someone to take Uggla and pay $5M of what he has left on his contract, I'd take that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Perhaps you missed the part where I said it looks entirely likely we'll eat up to $20M of Uggla's contract just to get rid of him. Per the AJC beat writer.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
I didnt miss it, id already read it from AJC, amd I ignored you after the dumb hype on Pastornicky, who is replacement level at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
So I can't be excited about a guy who was one of the top prospects in the game and was looking pretty damn good at 2B before injuring his knee? Asshat. It's a good thing you've never been anything remotely close to correct when it comes to be Braves.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Personally I would give Pastornicky a shot. Dudes a legit lead off hitter and has excellent speed. Good but not great D too. I think getting Phillips would be dumb. LaStella will be ready next year.
Pastornicky may turn into a serviceable major league 2B, but he was never 'one of the top prospects in the game'. He was a decent IF prospect...the kind that any franchise is willing to throw into a trade to get it done.
LaStella may be closer than I thought then. Players are moving up more and more quickly every year. You might be OK just keeping Uggla for the moment and then dealing him to an American League team as a DH at the deadline. I say that just because you have to pay Uggla one way or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
AgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
the Reds will be a very formidable team next year now that Dusty is not making decisions, BP is gone and his money used where its needed, and hopefully getting Zack sorry Cozart out of there. Upgrading the middle infield should be Cincy's 1st 2nd and 3rd goals
Pastornicky is well thought of as a hitter. His glove is where the problem is. He's an error machine at ss. Hopefully he can play 2b. This description fits lastella also.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Lol. Once again, Jair Jurrjens is my response to that comment. And like others have said, Pastornicky was never anywhere close to a top prospect.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg