Jordan Rodgers just said

MSU is a legit contender for the West. Our defense will be nasty. Our offense will be dangerous b/c JoMo calling plays and Getsy's work with the WRs.

And...He thinks we're better than Auburn.

The wool gettin' thick.

I think it's a really good debate.

IMO, Auburn's greatest case is based around 2 things: Last year's score & recruiting rankings.

I think MSU's case is based around actually comparing the starters at each position, home field, & schedule.

While Auburn did blow us out last year, I believe it's important to remember a few things about that game:

1. It was the week after us getting blown out at UGA, who played in the natty
2. It was on the road at Jordan-Hare. Remember Auburn beat both UGA & Bama at Jordan Hare last year. They beat Bama by 12 & UGA 40-17. So getting blown out at Jordan Hare last year happened to the national title contenders.
3. We had a game changing scoop & score blown dead. Perhaps the game ends up the same, but that was a huge blow on the road with a team coming off getting blown out by UGA.

Comparing us to Auburn this year, I think it comes down to a few things:

1. Stidham is good but so is Fitz. I don't see a huge talent difference there. They are just different types of QBs
2. We can debate all day which front 7 is better. In the end, I don't think either team runs the ball all that well in the game anyway.
3. Auburn is replacing 4 starters on the OL while we are returning 4 guys. HUGE ADVANTAGE FOR MSU
4. Auburn is replacing their star RB while MSU not.

So, regardless if Auburn's front 7 is better than ours or not, I believe when we play them this year, our front 7 will play better in that game due to Auburn's young, inexperienced OL playing in their first true road game. I look for our defense to play very very well against them

Conversely, I don't see us having much success on the ground that day either. So, IMO, if MSU is able to throw the ball with any sort of consistency in that game & not give Auburn short fields, due to turnovers, MSU should have a great great chance to win.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I think it's a really good debate.

IMO, Auburn's greatest case is based around 2 things: Last year's score & recruiting rankings.

I think MSU's case is based around actually comparing the starters at each position, home field, & schedule.

While Auburn did blow us out last year, I believe it's important to remember a few things about that game:

1. It was the week after us getting blown out at UGA, who played in the natty
2. It was on the road at Jordan-Hare. Remember Auburn beat both UGA & Bama at Jordan Hare last year. They beat Bama by 12 & UGA 40-17. So getting blown out at Jordan Hare last year happened to the national title contenders.
3. We had a game changing scoop & score blown dead. Perhaps the game ends up the same, but that was a huge blow on the road with a team coming off getting blown out by UGA.

Comparing us to Auburn this year, I think it comes down to a few things:

1. Stidham is good but so is Fitz. I don't see a huge talent difference there. They are just different types of QBs
2. We can debate all day which front 7 is better. In the end, I don't think either team runs the ball all that well in the game anyway.
3. Auburn is replacing 4 starters on the OL while we are returning 4 guys. HUGE ADVANTAGE FOR MSU
4. Auburn is replacing their star RB while MSU not.

So, regardless if Auburn's front 7 is better than ours or not, I believe when we play them this year, our front 7 will play better in that game due to Auburn's young, inexperienced OL playing in their first true road game. I look for our defense to play very very well against them

Conversely, I don't see us having much success on the ground that day either. So, IMO, if MSU is able to throw the ball with any sort of consistency in that game & not give Auburn short fields, due to turnovers, MSU should have a great great chance to win.

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Good analysis. Don't forget all the injuries to Auburn's WR group as well. Their offense is gonna scuffle some with new ols, rbs, and the injuries at wr.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Good analysis. Don't forget all the injuries to Auburn's WR group as well. Their offense is gonna scuffle some with new ols, rbs, and the injuries at wr.

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No doubt.

I do find it interesting how everyone points to them being so much better than us due the score of last year's game, but no one says that Auburn is better than UGA or Bama, even though they did practically the same thing to them last year at home.

Rodgers pointed out Auburn's OL as their big weakness. That's one of the reasons he puts us ahead of them.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Rodgers pointed out Auburn's OL as their big weakness. That's one of the reasons he puts us ahead of them.

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And he is correct.

It's just too early IMO to really handicap that game. There are simply too many unknowns at this point that will be knowns by the time we play:

Is Fitz fully healthy, meaning is he cutting & running at his max level?
Is there a drop off with Moorhead? As Brad Edwards said this morning, "Mullen was the best coach in MSU history. Is it really reasonable that they won't miss a beat with Moorhead?"
Is Auburn's new OL worth a damn?
Is Auburn's new feature RB worth a damn?
Will Stidham be the same QB while operating under more pressure due to lesser OL?

It's just a tough game to figure out on August 6th

I'll wait till I see us against a good opponent before I get to excited.

I think the Auburn game will be based in part on how we do the week before against Florida. We win the Florida game and I think the Auburn game will be a 2014 MSU/Auburn game atmosphere. If we lose to Florida it's going to be hard to focus on getting focused back again for Auburn.

He also said that Moorhead was the best Hire of all the hires.

Didn’t auburn lose some dL too? Or was that the year before?

One thing I thought Your former coach did well was slow the game down (vs Bammer) & limit plays/possessions.

I don’t know much about JoMo, is that style in his playbook?

Well? When we slowed the game down in the second half Bama turned the screws and took control of the game. I can see how a Bama fan would like that, but ... not sure it was really good coaching,

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Originally Posted by Walkerhill

Well? When we slowed the game down in the second half Bama turned the screws and took control of the game. I can see how a Bama fan would like that, but ... not sure it was really good coaching,

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Totally agree. However, I believe it gave you cats a chance.

Y’all hammered TOP & 3rd downs... and plays run, bc of that.

The inability to stop the Bammer run game was the death kneel.

And you know, Ridley getting to leave the field of play, come back in and catch the ball made it difficult.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Totally agree. However, I believe it gave you cats a chance.

Y?all hammered TOP & 3rd downs... and plays run, bc of that.

The inability to stop the Bammer run game was the death kneel.

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Nope that wasn?t the issue. You guys couldn?t stop our run game but we couldn?t stop Ridley and contain Hurts when nobody was open.

Auburn's first 'real' away game will be @ DWS with 30,000+ cowbells ringing in their heads!

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

I'll wait till I see us against a good opponent before I get to excited.

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Of course, you probably also aren’t wooly on our men’s basketball team even though this is more talent then we have ever had on one team in our history. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the 2018-2019 MSU sports season. There aren’t going to be many that will collectively be as great as the one coming up.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I think it's a really good debate.

IMO, Auburn's greatest case is based around 2 things: Last year's score & recruiting rankings.

I think MSU's case is based around actually comparing the starters at each position, home field, & schedule.

While Auburn did blow us out last year, I believe it's important to remember a few things about that game:

1. It was the week after us getting blown out at UGA, who played in the natty
2. It was on the road at Jordan-Hare. Remember Auburn beat both UGA & Bama at Jordan Hare last year. They beat Bama by 12 & UGA 40-17. So getting blown out at Jordan Hare last year happened to the national title contenders.
3. We had a game changing scoop & score blown dead. Perhaps the game ends up the same, but that was a huge blow on the road with a team coming off getting blown out by UGA.

Comparing us to Auburn this year, I think it comes down to a few things:

1. Stidham is good but so is Fitz. I don't see a huge talent difference there. They are just different types of QBs
2. We can debate all day which front 7 is better. In the end, I don't think either team runs the ball all that well in the game anyway.
3. Auburn is replacing 4 starters on the OL while we are returning 4 guys. HUGE ADVANTAGE FOR MSU
4. Auburn is replacing their star RB while MSU not.

So, regardless if Auburn's front 7 is better than ours or not, I believe when we play them this year, our front 7 will play better in that game due to Auburn's young, inexperienced OL playing in their first true road game. I look for our defense to play very very well against them

Conversely, I don't see us having much success on the ground that day either. So, IMO, if MSU is able to throw the ball with any sort of consistency in that game & not give Auburn short fields, due to turnovers, MSU should have a great great chance to win.

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This is the key to the game imo. Hopefully we pressure Stidham way more than they pressure Fitz, and they don't have that bruiser to hand it off to. May have to really watch out for their screen game to get the ball out fast to their WRs or smaller RB if they can't block us.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

No doubt.

I do find it interesting how everyone points to them being so much better than us due the score of last year's game, but no one says that Auburn is better than UGA or Bama, even though they did practically the same thing to them last year at home.

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I totally agree man, good analysis. I really hope to see our Simmons, Montez, Gerri, and Rivers in Stidhams face the entire game. If we can do that and force throws, I can see Mclaurin, cole, and Dantzler with some INTS and we take the game.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Totally agree. However, I believe it gave you cats a chance.

Y’all hammered TOP & 3rd downs... and plays run, bc of that.

The inability to stop the Bammer run game was the death kneel.

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******* gave you guys a gift when he chose to decline the running into the kicker penalty and keep the field goal to only be up 7. If he accepted the penalty, it would have been 4th and 1 and the way we were running in you guys with Williams and Fitz we would have scored a TD and gone up 11. The only way you beat a team like Alabama if you are us or say Ole Miss is take chances. ******* never took chances against Bama hence 0-9.

The biggest concern with the AU game is the FL game. We're going to be sky high and use a lot of energy in that FL game. Win or lose, going to be tough to turn around and play AU. Being at home is big.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

As Brad Edwards said this morning, "Mullen was the best coach in MSU history. Is it really reasonable that they won't miss a beat with Moorhead?"

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I sure do get tired of hearing this. Mullen did a good job for us but there are certainly several areas for improvement. We've already seen improvement in one area with Moorhead's recruiting. We're seeing another example with the depth chart - Moorhead will play the best players.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

The biggest concern with the AU game is the FL game. We're going to be sky high and use a lot of energy in that FL game. Win or lose, going to be tough to turn around and play AU. Being at home is big.

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I'm not too concerned about it. In 2014, we slapped around LSU, A&M, and Auburn in consecutive weeks.

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Originally Posted by BulldogDX55

I'm not too concerned about it. In 2014, we slapped around LSU, A&M, and Auburn in consecutive weeks.

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Also, like 2014, I think it's going to help that the games are in the "right" order. No letdown from LSU to A&M to Auburn because they were all huge. Think the same will apply to Florida. I'm sure some of the players want to beat Mullen, but they're probably not going to let beating a pretty mediocre florida team interfere with a much more hyped game the following week.

If I was going to be worried about a game get messed up because of team psychology/emotions/attitude, it'd be the LSU game after a bye week if we do go into it undefeated, or even A&M the next week. Both of those seem like potential letdown games if things are going well.

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

I sure do get tired of hearing this. Mullen did a good job for us but there are certainly several areas for improvement. We've already seen improvement in one area with Moorhead's recruiting. We're seeing another example with the depth chart - Moorhead will play the best players.

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I fully understand.

It's reasonable to ask though: if MSU has bad history in football, have been playing for over 100 years, and Mullen was the best coach they've had; how reasonable is it that they find an equal or better replacement with their next hire?

Now, as an MSU fan, I can rattle off numerous reasons why comparing the current MSU program to anything that happened prior to 1990 as a useless exercise as the two programs don't resemble each other in any way, however, that has to be proved on th field.

In MSU's history of football, I don't believe we ever made back to back good hires. From an outsider perspective, it would seem reasonable that MSU may not make a great hire.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

I'll wait till I see us against a good opponent before I get to excited.

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Yeah, feels very similar to pre-season 2001.

JoMo was a good hire. We have a defense and running backs.

I?m not sure Fitz will be the runner he was. I highly doubt his passing accuracy has improved. I?m skeptical about our secondary.

His accuracy doesn’t need to improve as much as people think. If our wide receivers will just catch passes they should catch his % will go up to a normal level. If they can create a little separation so he doesn’t have to stick it in their face mask every throw that would help too.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Of course, you probably also aren?t wooly on our men?s basketball team even though this is more talent then we have ever had on one team in our history. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the 2018-2019 MSU sports season. There aren?t going to be many that will collectively be as great as the one coming up.

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I've heard that before and no, a NIT appearance does not get me excited for basketball. There is great potential on both teams but all potential really means is you haven't done anything yet. I'll enjoy the season much better playing the expectations game when I have a reference point.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I fully understand.

It's reasonable to ask though: if MSU has bad history in football, have been playing for over 100 years, and Mullen was the best coach they've had; how reasonable is it that they find an equal or better replacement with their next hire?

Now, as an MSU fan, I can rattle off numerous reasons why comparing the current MSU program to anything that happened prior to 1990 as a useless exercise as the two programs don't resemble each other in any way, however, that has to be proved on th field.

In MSU's history of football, I don't believe we ever made back to back good hires. From an outsider perspective, it would seem reasonable that MSU may not make a great hire.

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It's just a different time and era. With the SEC money and upgraded facilities, State is a much more viable option for student athletes than it was before Mullen.

Mullen averaged just over 7 wins per season, while playing four cupcakes and Kentucky every year. He had a couple of spectacular seasons, and a bunch of mediocre to slightly better than average seasons. That's been done here before.

Like I said, Mullen was a good coach, and I understand the bowl streak is something that's never been done before. But it's important to remember the era. There are more bowl games than ever, and there are 12 game seasons now. In retrospect, outside of 2014, he really didn't do anything spectacular here. Mullen happened to be in the right place at the right time. Jackie accomplished more during the 97-2000 timeframe. It's my opinion that any competent coach can achieve 7/8 wins here every year with the occasional great year. The floor is higher, thanks in part to Mullen, but thanks in bigger part to the era, dynamics, SEC money, improved facilities, and extra cupcake on the schedule. Mullen couldn't raise the ceiling though. We will see if Moorhead can.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Yeah, feels very similar to pre-season 2001.

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Absolutely not

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Yeah, feels very similar to pre-season 2001.

JoMo was a good hire. We have a defense and running backs.

I?m not sure Fitz will be the runner he was. I highly doubt his passing accuracy has improved. I?m skeptical about our secondary.

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Shoop's specialty is the secondary.

Fitz actually has receivers that can catch the ball. His numbers will improve.

Fitz doesn't have to be the runner he was for this offense.

You can't even remotely compare this team to 2001. Just stop.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Shoop's specialty is the secondary.

Fitz actually has receivers that can catch the ball. His numbers will improve.

Fitz doesn't have to be the runner he was for this offense.

You can't even remotely compare this team to 2001. Just stop.

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You absolutely can compare this team to 2001. The similarities are closer than most want to admit. I believe it'll be different this time because we have loads more established depth this year than in 01. But the similarities are definitely there

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

It's just a different time and era. With the SEC money and upgraded facilities, State is a much more viable option for student athletes than it was before Mullen.

Mullen averaged just over 7 wins per season, while playing four cupcakes and Kentucky every year. He had a couple of spectacular seasons, and a bunch of mediocre to slightly better than average seasons. That's been done here before.

Like I said, Mullen was a good coach, and I understand the bowl streak is something that's never been done before. But it's important to remember the era. There are more bowl games than ever, and there are 12 game seasons now. In retrospect, outside of 2014, he really didn't do anything spectacular here. Mullen happened to be in the right place at the right time. Jackie accomplished more during the 97-2000 timeframe. It's my opinion that any competent coach can achieve 7/8 wins here every year with the occasional great year. The floor is higher, thanks in part to Mullen, but thanks in bigger part to the era, dynamics, SEC money, improved facilities, and extra cupcake on the schedule. Mullen couldn't raise the ceiling though. We will see if Moorhead can.

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I mostly agree with this except I think you are underselling how good a coach you have to be to win 7-8 wins a year anywhere in the SEC West. Gus Malzahn is a good coach at a program willing to cheat as much as any team in the nation, and he won 8, 7, and 8 wins in the three seasons prior to last year, and that was with bowl games. Bert Beliema averaged 9.7 wins a year at wisconsin and topped out at 8 wins at Arknsas. Kevin Sumlin was the hot midmajor coach and won 8, 8, 8, and 7 games at A&M after Manziel left.

That said, being in the SECW and paying SEC West salaries does make everybody in the west competitive for the type of coaches that can do that, but it's still a crap shoot.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

I mostly agree with this except I think you are underselling how good a coach you have to be to win 7-8 wins a year anywhere in the SEC West. Gus Malzahn is a good coach at a program willing to cheat as much as any team in the nation, and he won 8, 7, and 8 wins in the three seasons prior to last year, and that was with bowl games. Bert Beliema averaged 9.7 wins a year at wisconsin and topped out at 8 wins at Arknsas. Kevin Sumlin was the hot midmajor coach and won 8, 8, 8, and 7 games at A&M after Manziel left.

That said, being in the SECW and paying SEC West salaries does make everybody in the west competitive for the type of coaches that can do that, but it's still a crap shoot.

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I understand what you're saying, and we have to play the gauntlet every year. But we pretty much had 5 guaranteed wins on the schedule every year under Mullen. Then you only have to beat Arkansas or Ole Miss to get bowl eligible. Our 7-8 win seasons have coincided with Arkansas being crummy and A&M collapsing late season every year. Now LSU is down, which helps.

I'm not diminishing what Mullen did here, but I'm not going to make it bigger than it is, either. Malzahn is nothing special in my mind, but their permanent east opponent is better than ours, and they've always played a good OOC game, so their schedule has been tougher. Beliema couldn't recruit to Arkansas like he needed to and Sumlin's teams were soft up front. But State has an advantage over those places because of the schedule.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

You absolutely can compare this team to 2001. The similarities are closer than most want to admit. I believe it'll be different this time because we have loads more established depth this year than in 01. But the similarities are definitely there

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C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.

[QUOTE=TrapGame;978503]C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.[/QUOTE

QB who were expected to have big seasons- Madkin/Fitz
Returning Tandem RB's- Dontae & Dicenzo/ Williams & Hill
Two WRs with a ton of hype- Grindle & Jenkins/ Guidry & Whop
Experienced scary DL- Tommy Kelly & Dorsett Davis/ Simmons and Sweat
Improved and veteran secondary- Banks, Wright, Byrdsong/ Dantzler, McLaurin, Abram

Now I agree with you on most parts of it and I believe our D line is truly a nightmare for any team, but to say the similarities aren't there just isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

I sure do get tired of hearing this. Mullen did a good job for us but there are certainly several areas for improvement. We've already seen improvement in one area with Moorhead's recruiting. We're seeing another example with the depth chart - Moorhead will play the best players.

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? and maybe he won't have a fetish for fake punts

[QUOTE=StarkVegasSteve;978508]

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.[/QUOTE

QB who were expected to have big seasons- Madkin/Fitz

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This was also true in 2014, 2015 and to a lesser extent 2017. Also probably Relf's final year and Russell's first year as a full time starter?

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Returning Tandem RB's- Dontae & Dicenzo/ Williams & Hill

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Also pretty regular occurrence.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Two WRs with a ton of hype- Grindle & Jenkins/ Guidry & Whop

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If Grindle and Jenkins were both unproven and necessary for at least one of them to step up in order to have a good offense, then this is a similarity that is not necessarily common.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Experienced scary DL- Tommy Kelly & Dorsett Davis/ Simmons and Sweat
Improved and veteran secondary- Banks, Wright, Byrdsong/ Dantzler, McLaurin, Abram

Now I agree with you on most parts of it and I believe our D line is truly a nightmare for any team, but to say the similarities aren't there just isn't true.

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Not many that make them any more similar than any other football team from our past.

[QUOTE=StarkVegasSteve;978508]

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.[/QUOTE

QB who were expected to have big seasons- Madkin/Fitz
Returning Tandem RB's- Dontae & Dicenzo/ Williams & Hill
Two WRs with a ton of hype- Grindle & Jenkins/ Guidry & Whop
Experienced scary DL- Tommy Kelly & Dorsett Davis/ Simmons and Sweat
Improved and veteran secondary- Banks, Wright, Byrdsong/ Dantzler, McLaurin, Abram

Now I agree with you on most parts of it and I believe our D line is truly a nightmare for any team, but to say the similarities aren't there just isn't true.

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You left out JWS. He lost control of the program in 2001. That is the number one reason 2001 was such a bust. Moorhead and his coaching staff are light years ahead of where we were in 2001. My youngest daughter was born summer of 2001. She started her senior year of high school today.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

I've heard that before and no, a NIT appearance does not get me excited for basketball. There is great potential on both teams but all potential really means is you haven't done anything yet. I'll enjoy the season much better playing the expectations game when I have a reference point.

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You truly are an insufferable fan looking as negatively as you can at a situation.