Joe vs Dan: Who's worth more wins?

I've thought about this topic some and I have myself wondering is Joe going to be worth at least one more win than Dan would be this year on our team. This would have been Dan's best team and I feel 9 wins SHOULD have been his floor and could reach 10. So how does everyone feel about Moorhead? Guy hasn't coached a game yet, but his track record looks good. Sure is a lot of new faces on this staff too and they seem to be upgrades as well. Anyway, I feel Moorhead can be a +1 factor over Dan this year because he won't clam up play calling wise in big games whose team has equal or greater talent(I hope). Maybe this topic will be a fun debate. Hailstate

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

I've thought about this topic some and I have myself wondering is Joe going to be worth at least one more win than Dan would be this year on our team. This would have been Dan's best team and I feel 9 wins SHOULD have been his floor and could reach 10. So how does everyone feel about Moorhead? Guy hasn't coached a game yet, but his track record looks good. Sure is a lot of new faces on this staff too and they seem to be upgrades as well. Anyway, I feel Moorhead can be a +1 factor over Dan this year because he won't clam up play calling wise in big games whose team has equal or greater talent(I hope). Maybe this topic will be a fun debate. Hailstate

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I?m not certain wins will be the best way to measure this. There is no doubt that had Mullen not left this past November he would this coming one due to marketability. That said, what I think is the best determining factor is how competitive the program will be NEXT season when the rebuilding begins in earnest. Joe will have us much further along than Mullen ever would have been to recover. It?s the non field stuff. I just get the feeling that the team trusts Moorhead?s plan as a long range one.

As far as this year, there could be a difference, but talent could have covered it up.

I'm not sure how anyone could have any clue whether Moorhead is worth 1 more win. Saying so would be disingenuous & biased.

I do expect Moorhead to be more competitive in big games, if for no other reasons than it would be difficult to be worse than Mullen & Moorhead's offense kind of lends itself to creating big plays, which we need more of to beat teams with a little more talent. On the same token, the nature of Moorhead's offense may also cause us to lose a game this year that we should've won if we have no consistency in hitting pass plays down the field.

Lastly, I want to know if Moorhead's offense can get physical when it needs to be. I've always thought that MSU has played best when we are a downhill, smash mouth running team, but I don't get the feeling that Moorhead's offense is like that. I feel that we are taking a step towards being more finesse & I'm not positive that is going to be a good thing for us.

I think we up-graded in every coaching position including HC and we kept the best coaches from the former staff.
The new guys are much more professional.

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Originally Posted by msbulldog

The new guys are much more professional.

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This in spades.

It depends on whether you are talking about the good-to-be-here Mullen or the job hopping Mullen.

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Originally Posted by TaleofTwoDogs

It depends on whether you are talking about the good-to-be-here Mullen or the job hopping Mullen.

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I thought about that too. But I still think Dan would not be clearly better just due to the managing of his staff. Dan?s arrogance had a negative affect that I feel hurt our teams maturity. Sure, it was fun watching him infuriate om fans, but aside from that it was a negative.

I agree that Mullen's most likely floor was 9 wins this coming season based on past performance and knowing this would've likely been Dan's best team. The ceiling was higher.

I think unless Joe wins 8 or less then we won't really can't know.

My question is who is the better offensive coordinator. Schematically, adjustments, creativity. How much did Dan's offense change over 9 years. Was there anything he did at State that he and Urban didn't do at Florida?

I would say it won’t be hard to surpass Dan if he uses any common sense clock management at the end of halfs and certainly end of game.

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Originally Posted by SmokeyDawg

My question is who is the better offensive coordinator. Schematically, adjustments, creativity. How much did Dan's offense change over 9 years. Was there anything he did at State that he and Urban didn't do at Florida?

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Dan's offense was pretty creative the first two and even three years at MSU and it got more and more conservative. I'm not sure why. In year one we saw stuff like the wishbone on the goal line and things like motioning from a spread formation into a traditional I-formation. Some people have theorized that Hudspeth was the guy behind some of those creative moves and a lot of those things did seem to decrease after he left. That's a reason why I'm glad Hud is back.

Here's how I see Dan- Dan is a branch off of the Chip Kelly/Urban Meyer tree. I think after years of watching Dan that Urban is the mind behind the offense and Dan is just a protege' but not as good as Urban. Sort of like Will Muschamp is to Nick Saban. Saban is the defense behind that defense and Muschamp while a "good coach" is just not at that level.


Joe's offense is completely different than anything anyone else runs and he is the mastermind behind this style of offense. He is the root of THE tree for this- not a branch. And while it's obvious that he has gotten inspiration from Bill Walsh, Chip Kelly, and maybe even Urban Meyer- this is still HIS thing. That in and of itself is going to make Joe better than Dan.


One thing that impressed me about Joe as a head coach was when he was at Fordham and he beat Army and Jeff Monken who is also a very good coach on the road. For Fordham that would be about the equivalent of us beating Alabama on the road or at the very least a SEC blueblood.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I'm not sure how anyone could have any clue whether Moorhead is worth 1 more win. Saying so would be disingenuous & biased.

I do expect Moorhead to be more competitive in big games, if for no other reasons than it would be difficult to be worse than Mullen & Moorhead's offense kind of lends itself to creating big plays, which we need more of to beat teams with a little more talent. On the same token, the nature of Moorhead's offense may also cause us to lose a game this year that we should've won if we have no consistency in hitting pass plays down the field.

Lastly, I want to know if Moorhead's offense can get physical when it needs to be. I've always thought that MSU has played best when we are a downhill, smash mouth running team, but I don't get the feeling that Moorhead's offense is like that. I feel that we are taking a step towards being more finesse & I'm not positive that is going to be a good thing for us.

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He gave you a clue of why he feels Joe COULD be worth +1 win. Nothing disingenuous about it. Let me help you get it. If Coach Joe would have been our OC last year and had full control of the O, we beat Bama.

There's no way to tell, of course, but I feel more confident with Moorhead at the helm. Dan's iffy play calling is bound to cost his team 1+ game he could have won.

Well after almost 10 years with Mullen, I never felt like we were going to beat Bama.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I'm not sure how anyone could have any clue whether Moorhead is worth 1 more win. Saying so would be disingenuous & biased.

I do expect Moorhead to be more competitive in big games, if for no other reasons than it would be difficult to be worse than Mullen & Moorhead's offense kind of lends itself to creating big plays, which we need more of to beat teams with a little more talent. On the same token, the nature of Moorhead's offense may also cause us to lose a game this year that we should've won if we have no consistency in hitting pass plays down the field.

Lastly, I want to know if Moorhead's offense can get physical when it needs to be. I've always thought that MSU has played best when we are a downhill, smash mouth running team, but I don't get the feeling that Moorhead's offense is like that. I feel that we are taking a step towards being more finesse & I'm not positive that is going to be a good thing for us.

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I don't know if I'd call Moorhead's offense "finesse".

Look if I could guess our play 80% of the time, Saban could too.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Look if I could guess our play 80% of the time, Saban could too.

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Completely agree. Last year, it was simply that we imposed our will upon Bama for 3 quarters. There wasn’t any trick plays or gimmicks. The last set of play calls were so obvious to everyone. It also didn’t help that no one could cover Ridley.

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Originally Posted by duncflydawg

Completely agree. Last year, it was simply that we imposed our will upon Bama for 3 quarters. There wasn’t any trick plays or gimmicks. The last set of play calls were so obvious to everyone. It also didn’t help that no one could cover Ridley.

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Well when Ridley can step out of bounds and come back in to make a play, Deion Sanders couldn't cover that.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

I?m not certain wins will be the best way to measure this. There is no doubt that had Mullen not left this past November he would this coming one due to marketability. That said, what I think is the best determining factor is how competitive the program will be NEXT season when the rebuilding begins in earnest. Joe will have us much further along than Mullen ever would have been to recover. It?s the non field stuff. I just get the feeling that the team trusts Moorhead?s plan as a long range one.

As far as this year, there could be a difference, but talent could have covered it up.

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Wins and recruiting is what I weigh the most in measuring football. If you can't win you might as well find something else to do.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Look if I could guess our play 80% of the time, Saban could too.

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One reason why I like Moorhead for +1 more than Mullen.

Speaking on this year only I am a tad nervous about breaking a new offense in. That right there makes it tough to say yea he’s worth an extra win.

IF fitz doesn’t step up in the passing game and improve we will be hard pressed to get that extra W or two. I am also not sold our personnel fits his offense to a T.

I think our defense will have to win us some games early until we get comfortable in the new O if we want to win 10+ this year.